Poll: So... are singers still musicians?

[JourneyMan88]

I went to college for music, and voice is every bit as much an instrument as anything man-made. Academically, there is no "poll" or "debate" as to whether it is or not. The human voice is also credited as being the first instrument to be used in human history.
To obtain a degree in music, you must show a proficiency in at least three instruments, and voice can be one of those choices. In music school, voice is absolutely an instrument. No one in music even considers this a question.

 

[Nouw]

The key word of musician is music. So unless singing aint music...

And the thread should end right here. Singers produce music, people who produce (emit, make or whatever verb) music are considered musicians.

Even if they use auto-tune.

 

[Mordwyl]

You mean to tell me this isn't music to your ears?

 

[Wardnath]

Vocalist here, yes they bloody well do count as an instrument, whether it's melodic singing or percussive vocals (read: death growls).

 

[BonsaiK]

Simple question - do you think a singer should be counted as a 'musician'?

Bit of context is probably needed here. My brother and I have had this debate for a while now. I've always been firmly of the belief that a singer is still a musician, and thus you can still call singers who play no instruments (such as most pop bands, and so on) musicians. My brother, on the other hand, thinks that the term 'musician' should only be reserved for those who actually play an instrument. He plays guitar and ukulele, for the record, while I'm planning on learning the drums as soon as I'm not living with flatmates anymore who will probably object to me banging away on drums regularly. My view on the subject is linked to the fact that I feel that singing is making music in itself, and that being a musician is all about making music. A good singer uses their own voice as an instrument, and it's just as important as any other part of the music-making process.

So, what are your thoughts on this, Escapist community? Should singers be counted as musicians, or should they have to play an instrument to be considered so?

[small]I'd be very interested as well to hear the thoughts of BonsaiK on this matter, or indeed anyone else who happens to be involved in the music industry in any way, shape or form... [/small]

Gosh, someone specifically soliciting my reply, guess I'd better comment.

Yes, singers are musicians, the human voice is their instrument. This is true on the most basic, technical level. The way vocal chords vibrate inside the throat to create noise is in fact not unlike the way a guitar or ukelele generates noise, by creating vibration within an acoustic space. Humans have the added benefit of being able to change the shape of that acoustic space, which is why the human voice is capable of a much greater textural variety of musical vibrations than a guitar or ukelele which only have one static shape for their acoustic space that can't be changed while you're playing (or at least not with out great difficulty). This sometimes confuses the more neaderthal into believing that the human voice is not musical but something else, but those people just have a very narrow view of what music really is and aren't looking at the facts.

Token YouTube example:


You're welcome.

Most singers, yes I would consider them a musician. But others like rappers and people like Kesha I would say that they are not singers.

Both of those examples in fact are singers, as they are both making "pitched mouth noises". It doesn't matter even 1% if you don't like the noises, they're still singing.

HIGHLY dependent on the singer. Rebecca Black? Fuck no. Matthew Bellamy? Fuck yes.

Also both singers. Do they make pitched noises with their mouths? Yes. Therefore, they are singing. It may be in your opinion bad singing but technically it's still singing, to call it "not singing" is incorrect, objectively and scientifically.

 

[Bernzz]

Vocals are an instrument that, if present in a band (such as a rock band), contribute as much to the band as the guitars or the drums. That is, if they were taken away, you lose an integral part of the song (barring instrumentals, of course). So yes, I still count singers as musicians.

 

[playinthedark]

Except bassists, the lazy root note playing bastards...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx2vuK5pGTg

=)

Actually, more site-theme appropriate...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf56jYDv2fc

 

[Bobbity]

Yes. However, whether or not musicians can still be considered artists is much more, imo, contentious. Many of them yes, but many more of them, no.

 

[evilstonermonkey]

I'm not sure I understand why this would be a question... A musician isn't someone who plays an instrument, a musician is someone who makes music... So yes, singer is a musician. And even if you prefer the first definition, it can easily be argued (and obviously has been, reading over the thread) that the voice is an instrument itself.

 

[GiantRaven]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx2vuK5pGTg

=)

But where is the emotion in fast note runs?!





.>

 

[blankedboy]

Fuck yes. Vocals are hard, and they require actual talent, just like every friggen member of a band.

Except bassists, the lazy root note playing bastards...

Say that to Geddy Lee, Cliff Burton or John Paul Jones. To be fair even lazy root note playing bassists are musicians ... kinda.

Or the bassist in my school big band and combo... fuck, he's incredible on the bass.


Ontopic, they are. Whether they're good musicians is another point. See, my definition of music is insanely broad, I can consider a song with no pitch or rhythm to be music (read: ghosts in the machine, movement 1 by immelmann), but I judge how good a singer is by whether their voice is being used as an instrument (radiohead, starfucker) or a monotone lyric dispenser (most people :/). So yeah. I create loopholes.

 

[Revolutionary]

Vocals are probably the hardest thing to master from a theoretical standpoint, so yes.

 

[Zantos]

A singer is a musician, it requires a lot of practice and talent to make it sound good like any other instrument. Even then, if they do it badly then it's only as bad as a lousy guitarist.

Also this

 

[aaronobst]

Friday, nuff said

 

[EmzOLV]

I have always considered a singer/vocalist as a musician, because technically they're playing themselves, right? I mean, everyone has their voice as an instrument (or body slapping - haha) but I guess only a few are actually good at it in the vast majority.

Except bassists, the lazy root note playing bastards...

Say that to Geddy Lee, Cliff Burton or John Paul Jones. To be fair even lazy root note playing bassists are musicians ... kinda.

Yeah exactly. I almost took offence to that I put lots of effort in my bass playing thanks

 

[zxvcasdfqwerzxcv]

Singers are most definitely included amongst musicians. However, I think we need to redefine what a musician is. A guitarist who can strum just a a few basic chords is not, nor is a drummer who can't keep time. A musician is someone who has at least a good intermediate knowledge of their chosen instrument and is able to play cohesively with other people simultaneously. They should have a decent knowledge of music too, being able to transpose what they're playing at a moments notice. As a recording engineer, it's surprising how many people I've had into the studio who are not nearly ready to be called musicians!

 

[Klepa]

Its like how people can play a few songs on a guitar, and instantly call themselves musicians. You can't really call yourself a musician until you can create music, and emulate via ear.

I think you can still call yourself a musician. You'll be a terrible musician, but still a musician.

Much like with the term "art", or "artist", I don't think "musician" implies any sort of quality.

 

[Outright Villainy]

I have always considered a singer/vocalist as a musician, because technically they're playing themselves, right? I mean, everyone has their voice as an instrument (or body slapping - haha) but I guess only a few are actually good at it in the vast majority.

Except bassists, the lazy root note playing bastards...

Say that to Geddy Lee, Cliff Burton or John Paul Jones. To be fair even lazy root note playing bassists are musicians ... kinda.

Yeah exactly. I almost took offence to that I put lots of effort in my bass playing thanks

Oh, it's one of them.

Attention: Bassist getting ideas above their station.

But what do we do?

Don't worry, we'll just mix them out completely. We'll make Jason Newsted sound prominent on [i]Justice for all[/i] by the time we're done with them.

Damn, that's cold...