Poll: So... are we essentially good or evil?

[Iron Mal]

This is a subject that is entirely dependant on what you define as 'good' or 'evil'.

Even the most debased and brutal serial killer would probably say they were just misunderstood rather than evil (as a general rule if we think something is wrong we won't do it) so most people wouldn't be intentionally evil but it could be argued that the 'morality' of an action has just as much to do with the motivtion and intention behind it as the actual action itself so is it actually possible to be unintentionally evil? (again, entirely dependant on your own view of morality here)

'Good' and 'evil' do tend to be more about how something or someone is percieved by others rather than any actual moral reasoning behind it (I know this is violating Godwin's law but I think it's a valid point to make), supporters of Hitler's regime back in WWII (and neo-Nazi's today) would believe that they are good and doing the right thing, however, most of us here are in agreement that the Nazis were so cartoonishly evil that we often use them as a shorthand for the worst thing we can imagine.

Is either perception right or wrong? It depends on who you ask (for the reccord I disagree with the Nazis and do not condone or support them or any iteration of them or their beliefs).

Overall though, people aren't really morally aligned like characters in a DnD game so much as we assign ourselves and others alignments based on context and our own views and experiences.

 

[HardkorSB]

So... what is it? Are we humans essentially good? Evil? Or just a plain mixture of both?

Define "good" and "evil" first. Everyone has different definitions so it's better to establish the terms before we start to talk.

I like to use examples of generally despised people:
Hitler thought he was a good person. He wanted to make his country the best and most powerful country in the world (which he did for a brief moment). He thought that Jews were evil and that they were destroying Germany so he decided (probably not alone but that's beside the point) to do the only thing that would surely get rid of them - kill them all.
The thing is, even so-called "evil people" think of themselves as good and there will always be people who agree with that. Just as "good people" are evil to some (Mother Theresa or Gandhi, for example).
Whenever I tell people these things, I always get funny looks. Maybe they think that I'm evil
Good and evil, in my opinion, is mainly used to make a separation between "us" and "them". "We" are usually the good guys while "they" are the bad ones. People generally treat anyone with different opinions on what they think are the most important aspects of life as evil. You're pro-life and they are pro-choice? They're evil. You're a liberal and they're conservatives? They're evil. You're anti-drug and they're pro-drug? They're evil. You're Christian and they're atheists? They're evil.

But that's just my opinion.

 

[Spinhorse]

Tabula rasa

 

[Joccaren]

Love how it is ordered perfectly ATM with the top being least number of voters, bottom being most.
OT: Neither. Nothing is inherently good or evil, and they are just names we put on values that we do not agree with, which differs from culture to culture.

Even then, the example given is not good nor evil even theoretically. What you are basically asking is 'Are humans more commonly A-Holes to one another or are we more often kind to each other?', as opposed to are we good or evil.

If I had to pick one out of good or evil, I'd pick evil. It has long been said that humans are classified as a parasite. We live by destroying that which provides for us, then moving on. We destroy our home and anything else we don't consider important simply because it would be inconvenient to help it instead, or just let it be and work around it. That to me is wrong, and therefore 'evil'.

If I had to pick A-hole or kind, not sure. Most I'd probably say both. We all have things that irk us, and that will make us act like a total D***, and we all have something that we care about and will be nice to, no matter the inconvenience. For the most part anyway.

 

[Sprinal]

In my opinion Good and evil are simply relgious/societies black and white definitions used in order to control the populus.

They are useful concepts when trying to build a civilisation yet it breaks down when someone asks the question:
Is it wrong to kill a man in order to save more?

It is this question that allows for concepts such as "shades of grey." and it is something that a legal system has trouble with consolidating around. So I have said both as something can be good to one man yet a deadly "sin" to another.

And as we have invented the system We cannot be neither as that would break the system and make it meaningless.

 

[Torrasque]

Oh hey, its this thread again.
When you take enough philosophy and/or psychology, you come to the realization that humans are neither good nor evil.
I won't even get into the whole "what is evil? what is good?" debate because it is silly.
Human nature reflects the nature of the people around them. Surround them with saints and they become saints. Surround them with twat-buckling looney-baskets, and they become the people that enjoy Jersey Shore. Keep in mind that this is not definite; you can get Jersey Shore viewers out of the happiest community in the world, and Paladins out of a jail for the morally obtuse. It is just more likely to have good environment = good temperament and vice versa.

 

[minimacker]

I'm an pretty cool guy. I kill aliens and doesnt afraid of anything.

I think we're the off-spring of Good Guy Greg. Unfortunately, we get blinded by a lot of shit. Politics, nationalism, wars, cultures, religions.

 

[NorthernStar]

So... what is it? Are we humans essentially good? Evil? Or just a plain mixture of both?

Define "good" and "evil" first. Everyone has different definitions so it's better to establish the terms before we start to talk.

I like to use examples of generally despised people:
Hitler thought he was a good person. He wanted to make his country the best and most powerful country in the world (which he did for a brief moment). He thought that Jews were evil and that they were destroying Germany so he decided (probably not alone but that's beside the point) to do the only thing that would surely get rid of them - kill them all.
The thing is, even so-called "evil people" think of themselves as good and there will always be people who agree with that. Just as "good people" are evil to some (Mother Theresa or Gandhi, for example).
Whenever I tell people these things, I always get funny looks. Maybe they think that I'm evil
Good and evil, in my opinion, is mainly used to make a separation between "us" and "them". "We" are usually the good guys while "they" are the bad ones. People generally treat anyone with different opinions on what they think are the most important aspects of life as evil. You're pro-life and they are pro-choice? They're evil. You're a liberal and they're conservatives? They're evil. You're anti-drug and they're pro-drug? They're evil. You're Christian and they're atheists? They're evil.

But that's just my opinion.

You make an excellent point and one that has been raised before. When I created this topic, I was just musing about something that had been on my mind for a while and the implications the definitions used might have for others hadn't occurred to me as is often the case when we ask ourselves a question.
You and people before you have pointed out that good or evil aren't necessarily the right terms to describe this and I have to agree. The point is, what definitions CAN be used to describe an issue like this? I'm getting the feeling that a lot of people here would simply say that there is nothing to describe it

Of course good and evil are subjective, but believe it or not, that was not the point of my original post. I'm struggling to come with a definition that will fit it though. With these 'gut feeling' kind of things, I always find it hard to put my thoughts into words.

Then again, when defining human values, it only makes sense that we try to classify them by value systems that we ourselves have come up with.

 

[kinapuffar]

There is no such thing as good or evil. There is only what is, and what is not.
Good and evil are not absolutes, they're preferences, things that vary wildly between each individual.

For me, a good thing is allowing people to believe what they want, worship however they want.
For someone else, forcing everyone to follow the "right" religion is good.
And for a third person, banning all religion is the good thing to do.

What I'm saying is: if what constitutes good and evil can be so arbitrary, how can the terms have any relevance in the first place?


You asked what terms could be used instead.
How about: individualist vs group oriented? Are we essentially selfish, or do we consider the group more important than the individual?

 

[MattRobinson]

I liked George Carlin's "Extreame Human Behavior"
but really humans have the capacity to be good or evil depending how much they gain from it

 

[robert022614]

I would say we are born neutral. The experiences we have from there pretty much shape us. There is that whole genetics thing, my father was an alcoholic and his before him so I am vulnerable to that, kind of thing, but I think that can also be overcome with a good upbringing or many many different variables.

 

[Strazdas]

Neither. We are driven by our egoism. We have reason and are smart enough to realize that by cooperating we can gain more than in anarchy. Those that dont agree we call criminals. But neither side is "good" or "evil" because such terms depends on the person defining them. In middle ages not to believe in god was evil. to believe in one is evil now. times change.