Poll: So some people don't like the Escapist...

[goliath6711]

I don't like the cynics, the grammar nazis, or the elitists, but the last 2 seem to have mellowed out over the years so I'm hoping the cynics will too.

Any day now...

As far as the "grammar nazis" go, I will agree that people do sometimes have a tendency to go too far where that's concerned. For example: someone can start a conversation if the new Tomb Raider is worth playing or not, and if the person refers to her as "Laura Croft", you'll have 15 posts that just say "IT'S LARA, NOT LAURA! GET HER NAME RIGHT, ASSHOLE!", contributing absolutely nothing to the conversation but acting like they need to be listened to. Although to be completely honest, and this goes for everywhere, not just here, there are times when I read posts from someone who constantly misspelled common, everyday words within the same sentence that would make a second-grade English teacher's head explode.

It use to act pretty elitist as a joke. I use to imagine all the members owning top hats and monocles because no one would argue, they would debate. It also use to be full of grammar nazis who would correct those who broke their precious rules. You don't find many forums like that, and also many dislike our strict banhappy mods I mean peacekeeping overloards.

i mostly just dislike the people that actually post here, mostly corporate apologists and prudes.

than and the fact that the site bans anyone for just saying they pirate stuff which just stops any debate about the subject of piracy unless someone willingly takes a ban hammer to the face.

Here's my stance as far as "freedom of speech" and the internet goes. The internet as a whole is a place where anyone should be able to do or say anything they want (within the laws of wherever they themselves are or where they're transmitting to). If anyone wants to set up a site to provide a specific type of service for people or an outlet for any type of opinion that a person wants to express, then anyone should be able to do that on the internet without any punishment or censorship.

Individual sites, however, can do and block whatever the hell they want because it's their sites. You decided to voice your opinions on their site, so they can lay out whatever rules they want as to what you're allowed to say and do there, when you can say and do it, how you can say and do it, and where you can say and do it. And if you don't like it, you're free to go somewhere else. Even a site's decision to not not impose any rules is a decision that can only be enforced on that site. The only real argument you can make here is when the consistency of those rules are being enforced. You can't enforce a rule one minute and then change it later on for one person without changing it for everybody.

To use a real world example: I can't control what you do in the world, but I can control what you do in my house. And if you don't like my rules and won't follow them, my choices are to either let you ignore those rules or to throw you out of my house. Either way, you have to abide by my decision if you want to stay in my house.

 

[Soxafloppin]

FLAME SHIELD ACTIVATED

I didn't like it at first.

Back in 09 when I joined it was very much the Era of "USE THE SEARCH BAR" (when did we stop using that?) and I thought some users could be a bit hostile towards new users. But I've now been using this site for about 4 years, I financially support it with my Pubclub membership and I spend more time on here than any other site.

Escapist, You a pretty cool guy.

 

[Erana]

Well, back in the day (and before my time, in some cases) the Escapist was much smaller than it is now, and there was a very distinct culture pertaining to what was and was not appreciated in the community. Though moderators were a lot tougher back in the day, the culture of the site made you feel a bit awkward if your post was less than three or four lines long.
The influx of people in 2009/2010 changed the community forever into what yall know it to be now, more or less, but for a while there, it really was a place where crass, insensitive and short posts were not loved, giving the Escapist the initial "Last bastion of intelligence on the internet" elitist reputation.

Its just stuck around, and we've really done nothing to earn a different negative internet sort of reputation to replace it.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

Every community, if given enough time, will generate a significant amount of dumb-useless-insensitive-stupid members.

4chan, TV Tropes, Reddit, Youtube, any videogame playerbase. The Escapist is no exception.

I think it's stupid when people here try to say "4chan is awful" or "reddit is awful." As if trying to claim that they have some moral superiority by being part of a "better" community.



Also, can someone describe the Extra Credits controversy to me? I was only half around when it occurred.

 

[Woodsey]

It thinks very highly of itself for a site which has increasingly had to rely on humorous (although a lot are "humorous") video content to compensate for some highly uninteresting editorial efforts. I very much enjoy Extra Punctuation and especially Shamus Young's Experienced Points, but that's about it. And for some reason the latter tends to drop off the face of the Earth for months at time, before randomly reappearing.

If half of the people on this forum actually knew what the word 'pretentious' meant when they fling it about, they'd apply it to The Escapist itself.

Certainly doesn't help that they've had some incredibly transparent moments of poor professionalism, either.

And speaking of which, the forums seem to be increasingly filled with overly-sensitive reactionary types, and hugely misogynistic reactionary types, as well. Mind you, that does seem to be a problem with most places at the minute. All the fucking idiots are coming out of the wood-work now that we've had several sexism issues appear at once.

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

It thinks very highly of itself for a site which has increasingly had to rely on humorous (although a lot are "humorous") video content to compensate for some highly uninteresting editorial efforts. I very much enjoy Extra Punctuation and especially Shamus Young's Experienced Points, but that's about it. And for some reason the latter tends to drop off the face of the Earth for months at time, before randomly reappearing.

If half of the people on this forum actually knew what the word 'pretentious' meant when they fling it about, they'd apply it to The Escapist itself.

Certainly doesn't help that they've had some incredibly transparent moments of poor professionalism, either.

And speaking of which, the forums seem to be increasingly filled with overly-sensitive reactionary types, and hugely misogynistic reactionary types, as well. Mind you, that does seem to be a problem with most places at the minute. All the fucking idiots are coming out of the wood-work now that we've had several sexism issues appear at once.

This.

The thing I dislike is the way the moderation seems to encourage a circlejerk.
I've seen this enough times now to establish it as a trend, so I'll provide a hypothetical example:
A discussion is going on about sexism (flavour of the month) with the general consensus being that sexism is bad.
Somebody comes along and says that sexism is good, not in an impolite manner and entirely within the posting rules.
Within a few more posts that user will be warned or banned for some minor infraction.
What happens is that the majority of the thread begins baiting the dissenter with more and more specific and personal insults, none of which will attract any moderator attention.
The dissenter will respond in a similar manner, usually far less obscene and a far lesser breach of the rules than the abuse they are receiving, and an over-enthusiastic moderator will jump on it and warn/ban them.

Breaking the rules is fine on the Escapist, so long as it's not a low-content post and your flaming is restricted to somebody expressing an opinion that the majority do not hold.
If you are expressing an unpopular opinion then expect to be warned/banned for verbally retaliating to any abuse you receive.

This is why I'd heard these forums were a circlejerk before I even signed up.

And this actually, far too often. Having the "wrong" opinion definitely seems to get the moderators trigger-happy.

 

[Proverbial Jon]

What are you talking about? I love the Escapist! Long may it reign.

Why anyone would remain in a place they don't like, simply to ***** and moan, is beyond me.

 

[Atmos Duality]

OT: I'd say the forums and moderation probably put a lot of people off, combined with the sheer number of 'controversies' that storm through here.

What I mean by that, is the forums are much more strictly moderated than something you'd find around 4chan, Youtube, Destructoid, possibly Reddit, etc. leading to many zero-tolerance policies concerning things like trolling or low-content posting (which covers a multitude of things that a lot of people seem to view in different terms). You'll never find a thread outside of Forum Games that is a stream of reaction GIFs in response to one person's post.

Because of the strict moderation, personal insults and insults against groups that generally occupy these forums are also under the zero-tolerance policy, which leads to what I'd classify as a higher-than-normal amount of passive-aggressive and... clever... responses when people feel the need to attack/defend something.

I could keep going, but that's my two cents for now.

To be honest, I'm rather glad there is at least one website on the internet that is trying to foster discussion ahead of flame wars, memes, "troll-calling" (this is especially bad on sites like Gamefaqs), and forum fad-games.

You are correct about the passive-aggressive attitude stemming from this kind of moderation, but with such a diverse and (oftentimes) polarized community that's really the best you can ask for.

It's like the raging stupidity of the internet is omnipresent; like some kind of collective id. And when that id is forced away, it tries to find new ways to make its presence felt.

 

[Ipsen]

Been on the Escapist for a while, I love it, as in I love the content it provides, and even more so its staff. The Escapist forums are what I have a problem with, for a large part, one large reason being something like this:

It thinks very highly of itself for a site which has increasingly had to rely on humorous (although a lot are "humorous") video content to compensate for some highly uninteresting editorial efforts. I very much enjoy Extra Punctuation and especially Shamus Young's Experienced Points, but that's about it. And for some reason the latter tends to drop off the face of the Earth for months at time, before randomly reappearing.

If half of the people on this forum actually knew what the word 'pretentious' meant when they fling it about, they'd apply it to The Escapist itself.

Certainly doesn't help that they've had some incredibly transparent moments of poor professionalism, either.

And speaking of which, the forums seem to be increasingly filled with overly-sensitive reactionary types, and hugely misogynistic reactionary types, as well. Mind you, that does seem to be a problem with most places at the minute. All the fucking idiots are coming out of the wood-work now that we've had several sexism issues appear at once.

I can agree to some degree with a good portion of the content being boring, but I find it unique, and a more palatable presentation than what most other geek sites might provide (maybe I should just 'get around' more). All that aside though, the forums leave a bad taste in my mouth...even though (to say something...pretentious) is the best forum I've ever experienced. The Escapist has the potential, if the people, the culture would treat it right, to be truly progressive in discussion on the finer aspects of (video) gaming. So says I.

But in the end, it usually just degrades to forum (and before that, internet) antics. Trolling, flame wars, extreme views, personal attacks. The typical forum antics are lessened by the moderation, but adapted to nonetheless, and into sometimes quite nasty results. But I think all of this is just a product of the forum format (+internet). One takes more notice when you're singled out for your opinion, in...well, a forum of voices.

I'm of the opinion that the best time I've had in the Escapist Forums was when Extra Credits was around. It was the biggest feature on the site that not only provoked discussion on the games dissected in each episode (if there was one), but perhaps what games could do. It was the most interesting and unique feature the Escapist brought us, while focusing on gaming itself. Granted, they were vague (I think that was the point), and our discussions on it in forum were hit and miss, so while I loved that time Extra Credits were here, I can see why it was somewhat divisive.

 

[TehCookie]

It use to act pretty elitist as a joke. I use to imagine all the members owning top hats and monocles because no one would argue, they would debate. It also use to be full of grammar nazis who would correct those who broke their precious rules. You don't find many forums like that, and also many dislike our strict banhappy mods I mean peacekeeping overloards.

Here's my stance as far as "freedom of speech" and the internet goes. The internet as a whole is a place where anyone should be able to do or say anything they want (within the laws of wherever they themselves are or where they're transmitting to). If anyone wants to set up a site to provide a specific type of service for people or an outlet for any type of opinion that a person wants to express, then anyone should be able to do that on the internet without any punishment or censorship.

Individual sites, however, can do and block whatever the hell they want because it's their sites. You decided to voice your opinions on their site, so they can lay out whatever rules they want as to what you're allowed to say and do there, when you can say and do it, how you can say and do it, and where you can say and do it. And if you don't like it, you're free to go somewhere else. Even a site's decision to not not impose any rules is a decision that can only be enforced on that site. The only real argument you can make here is when the consistency of those rules are being enforced. You can't enforce a rule one minute and then change it later on for one person without changing it for everybody.

To use a real world example: I can't control what you do in the world, but I can control what you do in my house. And if you don't like my rules and won't follow them, my choices are to either let you ignore those rules or to throw you out of my house. Either way, you have to abide by my decision if you want to stay in my house.

So you can't understand why other people wouldn't like it? Some people feel like the site should adapt to them and welcome how they act and they shouldn't change their behavior to fit the site. With a strict site like this someone who is use to insulting people as a joke or yelling first will get banned and they won't like it. Like how on some sites yo u can discuss piracy or pedophilia some will feel restricted and hate how the site doesn't let them express their opinions. Look at it from a different perspective from your own and you will have an easier time seeing why.

Personally I just hate all the changes in the rules since I joined and what I bolded above.

 

[Olas]

I can't speak for people who have a totally different opinion (and world-view most likely) than me. To me the Escapist is an island of intelligence and respect in a sea of cursing, and stupidity that is the internet. That's pretty much why I come here.

 

[InvisibleMan]

I can't really vote on this poll since this is the first time I've heard of anyone not liking The Escapist, so I have no idea of the reason behind said dislike...

 

[TheYellowCellPhone]

Oh, there's tons. Moderation/rules, limited forum sections, premium accounts, the community, pretentiousness against people who stand against the general masses, not being able to take a joke, the same repeat threads all the time, the lackluster content (besides ZP and a few choice others) that is sold off as being "not the sucks", the controversy about EC and other missing content, the general management, the lack of changes in the last few years, etc.

Really, I don't see much of it. Some of it I've gotten used to and ignore (the feminism and games as art tropes we go through every few months), some of it still bothers me no matter how long it'll be. The lack of subforums, the rules about piracy and Ad-Blockers, and the limited progress that's been made to the forums since I came here around three and a half years ago. Not much has changed that I recall - some mods have been appointed, the Advice Forum showed up, there was a schism between Forum Games and RP, we got maybe 20KB bigger on our avatar sizes (HOLY DOG SQUEEZE!), and a few site redesigns. Otherwise the same formula's been there: some of that is "don't fix what ain't broke", some of it is... I don't know, I just feel myself drifting from this place because I haven't seen much change.

Moderation's fine with me. The Red Guard hasn't made many enemies and are pretty well-known before they get powers, the actual runners of the site are pretty cool people.

 

[MetalMagpie]

Pretty much every discussion has a reasonable probability of degrading into a flame-war about sexism flavor of the month?

Fixed that for you.

It feels like sexism has been the flavour of the month (on and off) for at least the last year. Although I guess it's better than the brief avalanche of circumcision "discussions".

 

[jamail77]

It's been called elitist in the past which is interesting. That's a popular go-to word towards someone with power when you can't form a cohesive argument against why you don't like them without sounding a little strange. The people who write for it have been called unprofessional due to their origins of employment and lack of traditional schooling as well as their mannerisms and character persona. The Extra Credits departure led to criticism as well.

Now I know: This question has probably been rehashed on these forums over and over again or at least once or twice. But I'm genuinely curious to hear what supporters have to say. Is it like a straw feminist argument when people hate something without really understanding what the true movement is all about (actual feminist/equity feminist)? Does it involve Internet culture? Gaming culture? Culture culture?

I have my own opinions but I like to start insightful discussions and it helps me take an undeserved break from more important things like school. I am not criticizing the Escapist just to be clear, just questioning criticisms directed at it. So avast ye'...that was terrible. I'm sorry.

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking, OP. My opinion of the escapist? My opinion of people who don't like the escapist? My theory as to why they don't like it? People like and dislike things for a lot of different reasons (many of which they themselves often do not understand) and it'd be plain stupid to even try to come up with a Universal Theory Of Why Some People Don't Like The Escapist.

I am asking for a meaningful discussion as to the most probable and wide-spread (number 1 out of all reasons) reason for the dislike. Your opinion of those people and The Escapist would probably naturally get brought up but it's not a requirement or anything. Also, people don't like or dislike things for a lot of different reasons. It tends to be a specific set of reasons that are often related to each other and come from a similar source or sources. Maybe if you take people as a group disliking something that's true but individuals? No. It is true that they themselves don't understand it of course. Like I said in my OP I like to start insightful discussions. What I didn't say is I like to have these discussions thinking they're more worthwhile than most other people who just say it's a waste of time. I can respect that of course and I even get it as I used to find myself in that position about these things years back and occasionally still do. Besides, as I also stated I like to take breaks from things I haven't earned the right to take breaks from also known as shameful procrastination which has been mitigated since my OP thankfully.

 

[Auron]

I dunno I mean I sometimes avoid the escapist because I feel like I have to add an additional filter when I come here. I mean I CAN articulate a well worded and lengthy analytical opinion of why i don't like final fantasy but sometimes id rather just say "nothing in it makes sense and theres a bunch of spikey haired faggots acting emo all the time."

Here even if that is the thesis of what I'm saying I feel like I have to phrase it different because otherwise I'll inevitably spend more time debating the colloquial use of the word "******" than I will the actual point.

That! The socially sensitive types and the sexism threads are certainly a problem. A community where you need to deeply analyse everything you say so you don't offend ceases to be interesting and will make most people just not care to say anything.


I've been frequenting the site for eons but never cared to get into the forums until very recently and while there's a lot a like there's glaring issues in the whole community mindset. Funnily enough I like the moderation overall, the amount of assholes banned probably makes it better and unknowing people caught in uncalled for warnings have 8 chances.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

In the time I've been here, I've seen a lot of hypocrisy, a lot of generalization and a lot of whining people who seem to have no social skills. I am not saying everyone on here is a hypocritical generalist whiny shut-in-jerkoff, but some of the people I've seen in the past are. And it may just be a vocal minority that shows up from time to time and shouts so loud no one else can hear themselves speak.
We have been bombarded with feminism topics (I get it, but there is beating a horse to death and continuing to beat it...) the "why don't girls like me" topic (hint, if you have to ask that question, thats reason #1)... A revolving door of ME3 sucks topics (seriously let it die, its just a badly written ending you'll never get real closure over).
Its no wonder some members have walked away from this site when all people talk about are the same few topics with sprinkles of new stuff from time to time.
I've lurked here a while, been insulted for my opinion (took it well too, without a flame response because I can take criticism in almost any form), but I've also had good conversations... And maybe I just like the trainwreck these forums can be at times.

 

[Not Matt]

because we need someone to look down on with contempt.

people have different opinions i guess