Poll: So... Why can't guys have pericings at my high school, but chicks can?

[Aerevolt]

[quote="Crazzy349" post="18.858770.21298533"

That bothered me, so I went to check my schools dress code policy and sure enough, it was true.
And also
A) Guys can't have long hair
B) Guys can't have sleeveless shirts
C) Guys can't fingernail polish (or toenail polish. *Shrug*)

So... why can't guys have this? It's Texas.

Most of the other dress code rules make sense, but I can't see why I'm not allowed to have any of this stuff. [/quote]

Some of these showcase the double standard, but point "B" applies to girls as well. In our dress code, girls couldn't wear "spaghetti strap tops". Tank tops with broader straps started coming out. Other girls would wear them on really hot days. June of my senior year, we had a heatwave, so I decided to wear the 1/2-3/4 inch strapped top. The vice principal caught me in the hall and told me I had to cover it up, he then asked if I was wearing a bra. In retrospect, I should have filed a complaint.
I have no idea why facial hair would be banned. But I'm sure it has nothing to do with girls not being able to grow beards.
The rest of your schools dress code seems to be about keeping the genders as different and stereotypical as possible.

 

[Aris Khandr]

It seems like this Texas school is merely reflecting double standards held by employers, which, given that the supply of labour is now a buyers' market, seems justified to me.

While it is true that employers have the pick of the litter right now, it seems to me that the choice between employment and your hair or nail polish is a far different one than being right out told you cannot have either. There are a great many employers who will hire someone with long hair, nail polish, or both. And even if that isn't where he ends up, it is still better to make the choice to change your appearance in order to get a job, rather than being forced to change it based on outdated social norms imposed upon you regardless of your aspirations later.

Basically, I'm accepting of the school telling someone "You'll have a hard time finding a job later", but I draw the line at outright forbidding something as personal as your hairstyle.

 

[michael87cn]

Wait until you have to get a job. Can't look like a bum there either!

Blunt, but honest. A lot of jobs require you to look professional, and that doesn't mean showing off jewelry and stuff. That's just how the world works. Be glad we're not all wearing suits, ties and hats anymore...

 

[Crazzy349]

Wait until you have to get a job. Can't look like a bum there either!

Blunt, but honest. A lot of jobs require you to look professional, and that doesn't mean showing off jewelry and stuff. That's just how the world works. Be glad we're not all wearing suits, ties and hats anymore...

I'm pretty sure as you keep your facial hair trim and clean looking, you stop looking like a bum.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

**SNIP**

From what I see on the website itself, this is an independently run school. I went to a private school for most of high school and they had similar policies. There's absolutely nothing wrong with them instituting a dress code that also involves hair length and piercings on men. There are many absurdities when it comes to mens dress codes and womens dress codes, and in the non-high school world there are many many jobs that require clean-cut, clean shaven, no piercings just to work there.
BTW you're there to learn not "be yourself" and have a fashion showdown of who can look the "coolest". Being yourself means sometimes you have to follow the rules, but it doesn't change who you are on the inside and hey! You might just learn something if you're not caught up in "fighting the system". Seriously, just get through your classes, graduate and move on to real life where you can be whatever the hell you want to be and still get shut out by certain people because they don't agree with your look. Take this as a lesson in tolerance and also a view of perspective.
I initially rebelled against my school's dress code, but once I realized how stupid it was to be bothered by a haircut and wearing a uniform every day (since a lot of jobs make you do that anyway) it wasn't a huge deal anymore and my normal skimming by on C averages jumped to being in the running for Valedictorian, and I wasn't even trying. Hell I even got on student council, lobbied successfully for our school to institute a soccer team, all shit I couldn't have done if I'd stayed a "rebel".
Just honestly deal with it and don't make it a big issue. Independent schools have the right to institute any policy they want and thats the price you pay for your education. Its not a "liberal vs. conservative" thing, its just a thing.

 

[Queen Michael]

That's just nasty. The kind of pointless discrimination that doesn't help anybody.

Does that mean there's a form of discrimination that has a point?

Sure is! Technically, any behaviour that favors some individuals and not others is discrimination. When a company only hires competent people, that's discrimination of the incompetent, technically.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

It's Texas. Not exactly the most liberal place on Earth.

Well, unless you count the cities, or the metropolitan areas. Texas has quite a progressive culture, and that really seems to scare a lot of Texans.

However, as Mabank has roughly 3,000 people, I would imagine it's still true of this school. It's just not exactly cool to paint a whole state with a single brush.

I feel perfectly comfortable describing Texas as majoritarily conservative. Their Republican legislators double their Democratic ones at the House of Representatives, Republicans have consistently won the presidential elections in Texas since 1980, the state forbids same-sex marriage, abortion is illegal and still upholds capital punishment, and the first edition of the Texas Politics Project informs me that the state features:

*a comparatively low level of state-funded social services, which are kept minimal by a general hostility toward progressive taxation
*policies that support economic growth led by the private sector, such as a generally anti-union work environment and limited environmental regulation
*culturally conservative social policies in areas such as education, religion, and civil rights

So if a guy tells me his high school makes him cut his hair, I have no problem, no problem whatsoever, recalling that his home state isn't - culturally or historically - the most remarkably progressive out of 50.

 

[Something Amyss]

I feel perfectly comfortable describing Texas as majoritarily conservative. Their Republican legislators double their Democratic ones at the House of Representatives, Republicans have consistently won the presidential elections in Texas since 1980, the state forbids same-sex marriage, abortion is illegal and still upholds capital punishment, and the first edition of the Texas Politics Project informs me that the state features:

Texas has been gerrymandered, so elections don't necessarily describe the majority. There's been consistent "fear" that Texas will become a swing state/purple state since the early 90s, and the thing about abortions being illegal is just false. Not particularly great grounds for an argument.

 

[rob_simple]

It's utter bullshit, but given that schools purpose in our society is to suppress individuality and crush freedom of thought and expression in order to mold children into obedient drones who don't question authority, ready to be bent to the will of their corporate masters, all I can say is you better get used to it for the foreseeable future.

Either that or get a job in a creative industry, I'm allowed to grow all the beard I want.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Yeah, no offence to your state but Texas pretty much sum up why the silly rule was made in the first place.

Also no, the rule is not fair at all.

 

[Lupine]

That's just nasty. The kind of pointless discrimination that doesn't help anybody.

Does that mean there's a form of discrimination that has a point?

I had teachers back in secondary school with more piercings than the students. Mr Hunt was a supply teacher who knew the curriculum like I know the Thai national anthem. But get his guitar out and he can hold a class for hours. Great man.

It's a daft rule based on a set of cultural cues that are long out of date. But being outside America looking in, I could apply that line to much of the country.

I'd say yes, but only because there are certain physical activities that I think it would be unwise to mix men and women because of common physical differences that give an advantage. I mean you could ague that weight classes in boxing is discrimination against smaller fighters, but that doesn't stop it from being a good precaution to take in order to ensure that fights are usually more fair.

 

[Callate]

Shrug. Why? Because women wearing earrings is more conventionally accepted than men. Men only openly started wearing earrings in U.S. in the 80s or so, and even then it was still kind of "counter-culture" for a decade. Not to mention that wearing an earring in the right ear by men is considered an announcement of homosexuality.

Hey, I didn't say they were good reasons.

But your school's administrators can and will enforce whatever sort of dress code they think, in their sole judgement (or lack thereof) will help maintain an environment conducive to orderly conduct and learning. They apparently think that men wearing earrings are making some sort of statement that threatens that environment, and women wearing earrings are not.

Hey, at least it could be worse; I went to a school with uniforms for a year.

 

[Chaos Isaac]

So... why can't guys have this? It's Texas.

You answered yourself right there didn't you? It's Texas. Not exactly the most liberal place on Earth.

Funnily enough, I'm a texan, and my high school wasn't nearly as, iunno, discriminatory or whatever you want to call it. Long hair and ear rings were fine. Nose and lip piercings were tolerable as long as you only wore the clear thingies.

So, yeah this is weird to me too.

 

[Lord Garnaat]

Stupid double standards, basically.

I'd have less of a problem, or not at all, with dress-codes if they were fair and equal.
Also thinking back to my (Finnish) high school, 50% of boys looked like this

Spoiler

So 'no long hair' seems blatantly absurd to me.

Maybe you disagree with the policy, but in high school a student's only purpose is to learn and obey. They aren't adults, and until they are the people that are in charge of ensuring they grow up properly (parents, guardians, teachers) have the right to tell them what to do.

What does this kind of stuff have to with whether they 'grow up properly?'.
It's different to instruct kids to not dress untidy or smell or something.

Trying to enforce different standards for boys and girls (which can be way worse than just something like this) is not something we should just accept.

What's the school to decide what 'growing up properly' even is?

That's the kind of phrase that just makes me immediately wary, especially since this is a place like Texas...

This case might be relatively harmless, but guardians and TEACHERS definitely shouldn't just be allowed to treat kids which way they feel like to ensure they grow up 'properly'.

But that's what the purpose of school is: to teach young people and prepare them for whatever their future place in society is. Treating kids in a way that they feel will ensure they grow up properly isn't just their right, it's their job.

Education is meant to inform and ready people for the rest of their lives, and a lesson they have to learn - especially at a young and rebellious age - is that you can't do whatever you want all the time. There are always restrictions and regulations and laws that are designed to keep the gears of civilization running smoothly, and it just so happens that in a school, it's the school staff that decides what those aforementioned strictures are.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I feel perfectly comfortable describing Texas as majoritarily conservative. Their Republican legislators double their Democratic ones at the House of Representatives, Republicans have consistently won the presidential elections in Texas since 1980, the state forbids same-sex marriage, abortion is illegal and still upholds capital punishment, and the first edition of the Texas Politics Project informs me that the state features:

Texas has been gerrymandered, so elections don't necessarily describe the majority. There's been consistent "fear" that Texas will become a swing state/purple state since the early 90s, and the thing about abortions being illegal is just false. Not particularly great grounds for an argument.

I'm sorry mate but pretending like Texas hasn't been culturally or historically a primarily conservative, deeply religious land thas has never been particularly progressive in terms of race, gender or creed... I welcome anybody that doesn't fit that sweeping generalization, which as generalizations go it's bound to not be completely true. But mostly true? Sure.

 

[thundra]

This is so stupid. I think it has lot to do with gender roles, like girls wear skirts and men wear pants, girls have long hair, men have short hair, girls wear make-up, men don't. These rules are so retarded

 

[Lazy Kitty]

No, it's not fair.
You should move to Belgium, where you can wear pretty much anything except for religious symbols.

 

[Lieju]

But that's what the purpose of school is: to teach young people and prepare them for whatever their future place in society is. Treating kids in a way that they feel will ensure they grow up properly isn't just their right, it's their job.

Education is meant to inform and ready people for the rest of their lives, and a lesson they have to learn - especially at a young and rebellious age - is that you can't do whatever you want all the time. There are always restrictions and regulations and laws that are designed to keep the gears of civilization running smoothly, and it just so happens that in a school, it's the school staff that decides what those aforementioned strictures are.

And those aforementioned structures should be questioned and sometimes challenged.
Just like in real life.

Restrictions and regulations and laws are not always fair.
The authority is not always fair.

And even if their aims and ideals are good, doesn't mean their methods should be questioned.

Talking about my personal memories in High school here...

It sure helped me a bunch when the teacher in high school told me to try to be 'more normal' because that was easier then accepting they had a problem with bullying.

And yeah, trying to erase non-heterosexual orientations from discussion and silently accepting bullying of non cishet kids sure reflected the society where those kids had to live as grown-ups.
That just makes both wrong, and earlier those kids realize it the better.

Or shall we talk about the times when the teacher just is factually incorrect?

Believes teaching their own religious beliefs for example is more relevant in making sure the kids grow up 'properly'?

What schools should do is to ensure kids will be able to function in the society, yes.

But if you equate that to blind obedience to authority, yeah, I take an issue with that.