Poll: Star Ocean5 censored in the west, misses the point still

[Plucky]

I'm not sure where people stand around Pantyshots, i just find it questionable that they had to make changes for the entire world, as if to make some sort of important statement. changing it worldwide means that the artists and designers' work is changed just because they want to look wholesome in the west, despite Japan being one of the original videogame giants in terms of franchises. it's less about censorship and more about scrubbing their own inherent identity just to appear more neutral/western.

It'd probably be worse in Japan since the game wasn't out yet at the time, and people would have already preordered the game. the thing with Japanese games is that other than Nintendo, Capcom and SEGA, there's so few people taking risks or doing their own genres, western games tends to either be really realistic and limited in scope to just yearly games, FPSes, Sports and whatever, whereas almost anything Japanese could be seen as a niche in the west....like Platforming games would be a dead genre if not for them keeping them up, or from occasional things from indy developers who fills niches that larger companies doesn't do.


Weirdly, i wouldn't have thought Star Ocean would've been noticed unless someone prominent makes a fuss about it, then it snowballs. compared to franchises that are basically pop culture icons at this point like Final Fantasy or Street Fighter (where it's already happened) where they'd be observed under microscopes for any potential controversy. i'm surprised they didn't touch Fiore's checkered bodysuit though. just think of Bravely Second's Tomahawk/Hawkeye controversey and apply it to a game that actual fans of a series is anticipating; imagine how Dragon Quest 8's 3DS remake would fare (in the west) from fans of the series if Jessica's costumes/Sex Appeal skilltree were altered/censored because 2 people who happened to have connections complained...you know, various costumes that's been referenced perfectly fine across various games, essentially making it a Series staple.

And the worst thing is that it's an RPG, so most people probably wouldn't have played it (let alone buy) unless if they happened to be fans of the genre; stuff like Tracer's pose being targeted could be justified because Overwatch is made by Blizzard who are known in the West for their graphical leaps and Diablo/Warcraft/Starcraft, so why all of a sudden is Star Ocean suddenly changed domestically in Japan? it just feels like not only they're adopting western gaming conventions but also changing how characters look from animesque/Asian to ambiguously white. FF13 for example looks and feels western, a FF game hasn't gone that sci-fi besides maybe FF7's Midgar (which is intentional, in terms of plot) and the mid/modern technology of FF8.

 

[Dragonbums]

http://nichegamer.com/2016/03/28/square-enix-gave-star-ocean-5s-miki-bigger-panties-in-fear-of-western-criticism/
In a hilarious attempt to appeal to western prudes, SE apparently decided to deal with pantyshots of young girls by...making their panties less sexy. Yep, they are letting them in, they just cover more of their rear now.

I find this hilarious as I don't think how sexy the underwear is will affect how people view potential loli pantyahots. At the same time, I will now be in high alert for other more severe changes. In the end imporing is always an options thankfully since ps3/4 are region free.

This wasn't any 'hilarious' attempt.

For Christ sakes these people are literally fucking taking the piss out of you guys. They KNOW what they would have to do to actually 'censor' the game. But they see this whole controversy so stupid and so easily to manipulate that all they have to do is slap the words 'it's censored' on it and roll in the big bucks.

They are clearly taking notes of how much more successful PlayAsias stunt worked and utilizing it to it's fullest potential. The faster we stop acting like onion skinned babies over basic localization the faster this idiotic trend will die.


EDIT: I'm also not going to even begin to answer that poll question. As if the thought of how skimpy an under aged teens underwear has to be for it to be considered sexual crosses my mind.

How about stop looking at teenage crotches? That's a start.

 

[CyanCat47_v1legacy]

You could have an NPC rant at the player for being a perv if the player manipulated the camera in certain ways.... In today's environment though, they'd probably tie it to an achievement. Can only imagine what the reaction to that particular decision would be.

That sort of thing has precedent in some Japanese games, so I don't think it would stick out for anyone who has played Metal Gear games, or Resident Evil 4.

Just how desperate is the situation getting in terms of japans birth rate when games literally award sexual harassment?

 

[Sleepy Sol]

Have you seen Fiore Burnelli's ass?

If anything deserves censorship it's that fine piece of ass right there. But hopefully not. Cause that's a fine ass.

Look, I think it sucks when a game is altered due to cultural standards, but I really don't think this particular instance is a huge deal by any means, and especially not worthy of the vitriol it seems to be generating between random strangers on the internet.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

You could have an NPC rant at the player for being a perv if the player manipulated the camera in certain ways.... In today's environment though, they'd probably tie it to an achievement. Can only imagine what the reaction to that particular decision would be.

That sort of thing has precedent in some Japanese games, so I don't think it would stick out for anyone who has played Metal Gear games, or Resident Evil 4.

Just how desperate is the situation getting in terms of japans birth rate when games literally award sexual harassment?

<_< Wait, what kinda guy looks up a girl's skirt, gets called a pervert, and thinks he just got awarded for what he did?

Guy: *Pinches Butt*
Girl: "You fucking scum!" *punches dude*
Guy: "Damn, she must have really liked that!"

It really depends on exactly how one does the punishing. In some games you certainly do get actually reprimanded but in ohers it's more a reaction of cute embarassement/fluster/etc.

Also, I'm sure some people like being insulted if it's done a certain way, and a lot of these games do walk that line between serious insult and tsundere vein flirting.

 

[Disco Biscuit]

Undertale is another, more recent example of exactly what you're talking about. The people who hated it, seemed to hate it because it held them to something like accountability. Once they got over the shock, they started to call it "preachy", but at first they were just raging.

I saw Jim Sterling played it, looked like it was absolutely not something that interested me, and moved on. I basically took the hate as the usual "something I don't like is popular" stuff and ignored it. So I really couldn't tell you.

Lucky you! I did the same thing, but then didn't ignore it. Big mistake.

But here's the thing, fanservice is still there. You can still see her underwear, it's just larger underwear, as though that fixes something. You're operating under the false premise that enlarging the underwear has any at all effect regarding this type of fanservice. It doesn't. With that established, we can say without a doubt it is not the lack of fanservice that summons the complaint, as the fanservice is still there.

Are you trying to say that an alteration so minor that it doesn't change the tittilation is somehow 'Big C' Censorship?

The thinking behind it is always what one takes issue with, no matter how big or small the alteration is it is the principle behind it that is being addressed. The minor degree of the changes serves to showcase that at least in this case the complaint doesn't stem from "creepy fanservice loving perverts who are to be dismissed without care" as is often the narrative used to minimize a legitimate point in cases like this.

Big c or whatever doesn't matter, it's silly and wrong and hilarious but ultimately a needless thing we should be against if we wish to remain consistent in our appreciation for freedom of the arts/expresssion/etc. I never made a big C tier deal out of it in the entire topic but at the same time it isn't a good thing either.

It's the thinking behind it?... no matter how big or small? SJW.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Undertale is another, more recent example of exactly what you're talking about. The people who hated it, seemed to hate it because it held them to something like accountability. Once they got over the shock, they started to call it "preachy", but at first they were just raging.

I saw Jim Sterling played it, looked like it was absolutely not something that interested me, and moved on. I basically took the hate as the usual "something I don't like is popular" stuff and ignored it. So I really couldn't tell you.

Lucky you! I did the same thing, but then didn't ignore it. Big mistake.

But here's the thing, fanservice is still there. You can still see her underwear, it's just larger underwear, as though that fixes something. You're operating under the false premise that enlarging the underwear has any at all effect regarding this type of fanservice. It doesn't. With that established, we can say without a doubt it is not the lack of fanservice that summons the complaint, as the fanservice is still there.

Are you trying to say that an alteration so minor that it doesn't change the tittilation is somehow 'Big C' Censorship?

The thinking behind it is always what one takes issue with, no matter how big or small the alteration is it is the principle behind it that is being addressed. The minor degree of the changes serves to showcase that at least in this case the complaint doesn't stem from "creepy fanservice loving perverts who are to be dismissed without care" as is often the narrative used to minimize a legitimate point in cases like this.

Big c or whatever doesn't matter, it's silly and wrong and hilarious but ultimately a needless thing we should be against if we wish to remain consistent in our appreciation for freedom of the arts/expresssion/etc. I never made a big C tier deal out of it in the entire topic but at the same time it isn't a good thing either.

It's the thinking behind it?... no matter how big or small? SJW.

The subject is self censorship. What else besides thinking is there to even address. The principle of the act is what is the issue. I don't get your point.

 

[Disco Biscuit]

Undertale is another, more recent example of exactly what you're talking about. The people who hated it, seemed to hate it because it held them to something like accountability. Once they got over the shock, they started to call it "preachy", but at first they were just raging.

I saw Jim Sterling played it, looked like it was absolutely not something that interested me, and moved on. I basically took the hate as the usual "something I don't like is popular" stuff and ignored it. So I really couldn't tell you.

Lucky you! I did the same thing, but then didn't ignore it. Big mistake.

But here's the thing, fanservice is still there. You can still see her underwear, it's just larger underwear, as though that fixes something. You're operating under the false premise that enlarging the underwear has any at all effect regarding this type of fanservice. It doesn't. With that established, we can say without a doubt it is not the lack of fanservice that summons the complaint, as the fanservice is still there.

Are you trying to say that an alteration so minor that it doesn't change the tittilation is somehow 'Big C' Censorship?

The thinking behind it is always what one takes issue with, no matter how big or small the alteration is it is the principle behind it that is being addressed. The minor degree of the changes serves to showcase that at least in this case the complaint doesn't stem from "creepy fanservice loving perverts who are to be dismissed without care" as is often the narrative used to minimize a legitimate point in cases like this.

Big c or whatever doesn't matter, it's silly and wrong and hilarious but ultimately a needless thing we should be against if we wish to remain consistent in our appreciation for freedom of the arts/expresssion/etc. I never made a big C tier deal out of it in the entire topic but at the same time it isn't a good thing either.

It's the thinking behind it?... no matter how big or small? SJW.

The subject is self censorship. What else besides thinking is there to even address. The principle of the act is what is the issue. I don't get your point.

I'm saying that I don't care about SJW issues of "the thought behind it" and "No matter how small". I wasn't unclear, but I am done.

 

[Amir Kondori]

Yep, I'm a prude for not wanting to bang a child : /

Spoiler

I don't think Square is the only one missing the point.

Yes, because appreciating the sexily drawn post-pubescent panty shot makes you a pedophile. Come on, I'm sick of that puritanical, oddly American way of thinking. Like all the anime freaks out there are wanting to have sex with children. Baloney.

I didn't vote in this pole because it assumes I find any of it offensive.

What's crazy to me about this is that the people complaining aren't the people buying the games.

 

[Fox12]

Yep, I'm a prude for not wanting to bang a child : /

Spoiler

I don't think Square is the only one missing the point.

Yes, because appreciating the sexily drawn post-pubescent panty shot makes you a pedophile. Come on, I'm sick of that puritanical, oddly American way of thinking. Like all the anime freaks out there are wanting to have sex with children. Baloney.

What's crazy to me about this is that the people complaining aren't the people buying the games.

If by "appreciate" you mean "I want to look up her skirt at her coochie" then sure.

As I said in another comment on the first page, she's technically 18, so no, someone wouldn't be a pedophile for being attracted to her. Even though she's blatantly designed to look like a child.

Most of the recent controversies, however, have centered around 12 or 14 year old girls. And yes, I'm sorry, that does make one look rather dodgy. I don't think there's anything puritanical about it. I just like to call a spade a spade. Or, as the case may be, the 12 year old dressed in a stripper outfit a 12 year old dressed in a stripper outfit. But, I'm sure, the real reason people are upset is because they don't want the plot altered as a result of localization.

Spoiler

I mean, seriously, what have the last several censorship debates been about? No underwear outfits in Fatal Frame? Dead or Alive Beach Volley Ball not getting a major release on the west? Reduced boob sliders in Xenoblade Chronicles? The ability to pet people in Fire Emblem? The size of a girls panties in Star Ocean 5, which you can only see by panning the camera up at the right angle? Oh. My. God. Who honestly cares? Can you people not honestly see why no one in the larger gaming community cares about these complaints? Most people don't even know they exist. They're non-issues. Nobody cares about a handful of cosmetic issues that happen during localization.

 

[Amir Kondori]

Yep, I'm a prude for not wanting to bang a child : /

Spoiler

I don't think Square is the only one missing the point.

Yes, because appreciating the sexily drawn post-pubescent panty shot makes you a pedophile. Come on, I'm sick of that puritanical, oddly American way of thinking. Like all the anime freaks out there are wanting to have sex with children. Baloney.

What's crazy to me about this is that the people complaining aren't the people buying the games.

If by "appreciate" you mean "I want to look up her skirt at her coochie" then sure.

As I said in another comment on the first page, she's technically 18, so no, someone wouldn't be a pedophile for being attracted to her. Even though she's blatantly designed to look like a child.

Most of the recent controversies, however, have centered around 12 or 14 year old girls. And yes, I'm sorry, that does make one look rather dodgy. I don't think there's anything puritanical about it. I just like to call a spade a spade. Or, as the case may be, the 12 year old dressed in a stripper outfit a 12 year old dressed in a stripper outfit. But, I'm sure, the real reason people are upset is because they don't want the plot altered as a result of localization.

Spoiler

I mean, seriously, what have the last several censorship debates been about? No underwear outfits in Fatal Frame? Dead or Alive Beach Volley Ball not getting a major release on the west? Reduced boob sliders in Xenoblade Chronicles? The ability to pet people in Fire Emblem? The size of a girls panties in Star Ocean 5, which you can only see by panning the camera up at the right angle? Oh. My. God. Who honestly cares? Can you people not honestly see why no one in the larger gaming community cares about these complaints? Most people don't even know they exist. They're non-issues. Nobody cares about a handful of cosmetic issues that happen during localization.

I haven't looked at these specific pictures or screenshots for the game, so I don't know how young or not these girls look. If the girls are looking squarely prepubescent I get squicked out. More often than not though they are drawn as post-pubescent but young and developing. I'm not going feel bad about finding that attractive. We sit on one hand as a culture and charge teens with felonies for sexting each other, requiring them to list as sex offenders for normal teen behavior, while on the other hand push young, fresh faced 14, 15 year old teens as sexy idols in music and TV. You've got Jodie Foster, a 12 year old playing a 12 year old prostitute and Natalie Portman, about the same age in Leon the Professional. Both of the girls were used in part for the beauty and were shown as appealing and arousing. You've got a ton of pop stars like Britney Spears and Miley Cyrus and many more. Our society holds up youth in women as a very appealing and desirable thing yet if you admit to finding someone under 18 sexy you are branded a pervert and predator. It's stupid and if you show someone a picture of a beautiful 15 year old and tell them she is 18 they'll have no problem telling you how hot she is, if you tell them she is 15 they'll pretend they don't.

The whole thing is a fraud and feels like a way for people to feel self righteous and better than. I'm not advocating for the abolishment of statutory rape statutes, I just don't want people to expect me to feel dirty for finding a post-pubescent 14 year old attractive, real or animated.

EDIT: I looked at the screen shot you posted, that girl has wide hips, solid B/C cup, and nothing dodgy about her to my eye.

 

[runic knight]

I see a lot of people that seemed to miss the point of the thread seems to be about laughing at the changes for both being absurdly small, and missing the point of what they were changing in the first place.

Still agree it is censorship, just the weirdest sort of censorship I have heard in a while. Would be like a cable company changing the color of blood of a character to a slightly different shade of red in response to complaints of violence. Just... why bother?

 

[Fox12]

I haven't looked at these specific pictures or screenshots for the game, so I don't know how young or not these girls look. If the girls are looking squarely prepubescent I get squicked out. More often than not though they are drawn as post-pubescent but young and developing. I'm not going feel bad about finding that attractive. We sit on one hand as a culture and charge teens with felonies for sexting each other, requiring them to list as sex offenders for normal teen behavior, while on the other hand push young, fresh faced 14, 15 year old teens as sexy idols in music and TV. You've got Jodie Foster, a 12 year old playing a 12 year old prostitute and Natalie Portman, about the same age in Leon the Professional. Both of the girls were used in part for the beauty and were shown as appealing and arousing. You've got a ton of pop stars like Britney Spears and Miley Cyrus and many more. Our society holds up youth in women as a very appealing and desirable thing yet if you admit to finding someone under 18 sexy you are branded a pervert and predator. It's stupid and if you show someone a picture of a beautiful 15 year old and tell them she is 18 they'll have no problem telling you how hot she is, if you tell them she is 15 they'll pretend they don't.

The whole thing is a fraud and feels like a way for people to feel self righteous and better than. I'm not advocating for the abolishment of statutory rape statutes, I just don't want people to expect me to feel dirty for finding a post-pubescent 14 year old attractive, real or animated.

EDIT: I looked at the screen shot you posted, that girl has wide hips, solid B/C cup, and nothing dodgy about her to my eye.

She's 13, 14 years old. I don't care how wide her hips are.

I can't fault you for the rest of the post, though. There's definitely a weird social double standard where we sexualize children. I find this rather disturbing. Admittedly the age of consent is somewhat arbitrary, but when characters are 14 or younger, or when they're deliberately made to look like children, I think there's a certain line that's crossed.

And I was under the impression that Leon the Professional was inspired by Lolita, a classic work of literature about a man having sex with a little girl? Both the book and film may be quite good, but it doesn't help your position when the subject matter is about pedophilia. I haven't seen Leon, though, so I'll leave that to your discretion.

 

[Sharia]

I have had a look and taken a few screenshots which I will have to upload when I get home. Miki's underwear is fine. If maybe a tiny bit granny panty. Fiore however has a really short skirt on, which is probably the more appropriate to change if anything.....

Funny thing is, I wouldn't have ever looked if not for this controversy.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Undertale is another, more recent example of exactly what you're talking about. The people who hated it, seemed to hate it because it held them to something like accountability. Once they got over the shock, they started to call it "preachy", but at first they were just raging.

I saw Jim Sterling played it, looked like it was absolutely not something that interested me, and moved on. I basically took the hate as the usual "something I don't like is popular" stuff and ignored it. So I really couldn't tell you.

Lucky you! I did the same thing, but then didn't ignore it. Big mistake.

But here's the thing, fanservice is still there. You can still see her underwear, it's just larger underwear, as though that fixes something. You're operating under the false premise that enlarging the underwear has any at all effect regarding this type of fanservice. It doesn't. With that established, we can say without a doubt it is not the lack of fanservice that summons the complaint, as the fanservice is still there.

Are you trying to say that an alteration so minor that it doesn't change the tittilation is somehow 'Big C' Censorship?

The thinking behind it is always what one takes issue with, no matter how big or small the alteration is it is the principle behind it that is being addressed. The minor degree of the changes serves to showcase that at least in this case the complaint doesn't stem from "creepy fanservice loving perverts who are to be dismissed without care" as is often the narrative used to minimize a legitimate point in cases like this.

Big c or whatever doesn't matter, it's silly and wrong and hilarious but ultimately a needless thing we should be against if we wish to remain consistent in our appreciation for freedom of the arts/expresssion/etc. I never made a big C tier deal out of it in the entire topic but at the same time it isn't a good thing either.

It's the thinking behind it?... no matter how big or small? SJW.

The subject is self censorship. What else besides thinking is there to even address. The principle of the act is what is the issue. I don't get your point.

I'm saying that I don't care about SJW issues of "the thought behind it" and "No matter how small". I wasn't unclear, but I am done.

So all philosophical concerns about the correctness of an act are SJW issues now? Oh well, not that I care, I have been in the past generally against most of their issues but if I can somehow elevate them by being against censorship and against authoritarianism that imposes a climate of fear on overseas devs and have that be a new breed of SJW issue then I'll take it as my good act of the day.

I see a lot of people that seemed to miss the point of the thread seems to be about laughing at the changes for both being absurdly small, and missing the point of what they were changing in the first place.

Still agree it is censorship, just the weirdest sort of censorship I have heard in a while. Would be like a cable company changing the color of blood of a character to a slightly different shade of red in response to complaints of violence. Just... why bother?

Correct. People reacted to the words without paying attention to the context. I can see a number of posts which just seem to pluck one single tern and respond solely to it by imagining the context they want, be it censorship or prudes or teen or what have you.

Alas, some seemed to get it lol. Also I am happy Captain Commando got so many votes, capcom should read this topic and revive his franchise.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Undertale is another, more recent example of exactly what you're talking about. The people who hated it, seemed to hate it because it held them to something like accountability. Once they got over the shock, they started to call it "preachy", but at first they were just raging.

I saw Jim Sterling played it, looked like it was absolutely not something that interested me, and moved on. I basically took the hate as the usual "something I don't like is popular" stuff and ignored it. So I really couldn't tell you.

Lucky you! I did the same thing, but then didn't ignore it. Big mistake.

But here's the thing, fanservice is still there. You can still see her underwear, it's just larger underwear, as though that fixes something. You're operating under the false premise that enlarging the underwear has any at all effect regarding this type of fanservice. It doesn't. With that established, we can say without a doubt it is not the lack of fanservice that summons the complaint, as the fanservice is still there.

Are you trying to say that an alteration so minor that it doesn't change the tittilation is somehow 'Big C' Censorship?

The thinking behind it is always what one takes issue with, no matter how big or small the alteration is it is the principle behind it that is being addressed. The minor degree of the changes serves to showcase that at least in this case the complaint doesn't stem from "creepy fanservice loving perverts who are to be dismissed without care" as is often the narrative used to minimize a legitimate point in cases like this.

Big c or whatever doesn't matter, it's silly and wrong and hilarious but ultimately a needless thing we should be against if we wish to remain consistent in our appreciation for freedom of the arts/expresssion/etc. I never made a big C tier deal out of it in the entire topic but at the same time it isn't a good thing either.

It's the thinking behind it?... no matter how big or small? SJW.

The subject is self censorship. What else besides thinking is there to even address. The principle of the act is what is the issue. I don't get your point.

I'm saying that I don't care about SJW issues of "the thought behind it" and "No matter how small". I wasn't unclear, but I am done.

So all philosophical concerns about the correctness of an act are SJW issues now? Oh well, not that I care, I have been in the past generally against most of their issues but if I can somehow elevate them by being against censorship and against authoritarianism that imposes a climate of fear on overseas devs and have that be a new breed of SJW issue then I'll take it as my good act of the day.

Let me say what he or she is too polite to say: you're acting like an entitled, whiny, symbolic-whoring SJW. You suck. Go home.

There's nothig symbollic about a philosophical point. One can be substantial while tackling abstract concepts. In the first place I am not as much complaining about this as I am clarifying what the topic is. I never actually asked for anything and all I did was have fun with silliness while making an overarching point about the idea the silliness stems from. I would love to see where I whined about anything, since reality is that bemusement was my only feeling behind this issue. It's hard to sound whiny while you've been chuckling all along and anyone who percieves it as such was predetermined to do so no matter how I sounded.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

Why are Japanese video games getting hit with this nonsense while Anime not on major networks (Funimation) just skates on by? Like, how much Anime would be subject to this? Pretty much all of it right?

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Why are Japanese video games getting hit with this nonsense while Anime not on major networks (Funimation) just skates on by? Like, how much Anime would be subject to this? Pretty much all of it right?

That's an interesting question. I guess it's too niche to make their radars or the devs just don't pay any at all attention to the west and only care for japan. Hell, Manga is even less affected, for example the funi version of dance in the vampire bund I hear was censored but the manga which is much more extreme was left untouched. I remember this video from buzzfeed where bewildered feminists gawked at kill la kill while opening clams in search of additional pearls to clutch so they definitely would yell about anime more if they were aware of it lol. There also was that Cross Ange thing a while back too. The creators just aren't at all affected since anime isn't made in the west and the people looking for issues don't watch anime and aren't aware of stuff like Seikon no Qwazar lol.

 

[lacktheknack]

You know, you can say the word "prude" as much as you want, it doesn't automatically make your argument right.

This.

I am a self-proclaimed prude. All attempts to use me as slanderous mud-slinging is confusing and ineffective. :/

(Although I admittedly do tend to stay out of discussions like this, because, as you may have guessed, my opinion is "why the heck are her panties prominent enough to merit adjustment".)