Poll: Star Wars VII's lightsaber combat changes, yay or nay? (Spoilers)

[Renegade-pizza]

To start off this topic, I want to address lightsaber combat changes between the origonal and prequel trilogies. I feel that the prequels brought much more action and energy to the duels. It featured better choreography and swordsmanship, making it much more lively.

For me, it felt more appropriate for magical swordsmen with laser swords to have more kinetic fights. The problem was, they were too "perfect". The fights ended with some kind of amputation (arm, hand, legs, heads, etc.). That was the only time they made contact and it automatically won the fight.

What I really like about Episode VII's combat, is that they aren't perfect duelists. Obviously they wanted to portray the characters as more "amateur", since they were. With this, I liked that they managed to "nick" and graze each other with their lightsabers. This is equivalent to a sword cutting a limb, it hurts and may be debilitating, but it isn't the end of the duel.

They kept at it. Making bodily contact and causing wounds, but never the final blow that ends the duel. The additional use of environments in the fights were also a nice touch.

So, do you like the changes made to the combat?

PS. That's what the crossguards on Kylo's lightsaber were for.

PPS. Check out choreographed lightsaber duels on youtube, they're really good

 

[Shoggoth2588]

I thought the slower, more bushido-like Lightsaber duels were actually better (or rather COULD have been better) at depicting the more subtle duel of Jedi-using-The-Force vs Sith-using-The-Force. I liked how in the older EU it made it seem as though if you didn't have some kind of connection with The Force you were going to be absolutely wrecked if you tried using a lightsaber. Further, it seems like The Force in the good-ol'-days acted as a mind-activated buff and/or debuff for the protagonist's opponent. It would be incredibly difficult to film unless they went for a Twilight style, "this is what's going to happen if I do this right now" kind of technique but that would probably be really dissatisfying to watch.

When it comes to the prequel trilogy, it looked a lot more like Jedi and Sith were dancing around each other more than they were actively trying to attack/defend/kill each other. General Grievous was a great addition to the formula though but he didn't fight so much as he became a laser-turbine.

I really liked the saber combat in VII since, as you said, Rey, Finn and, Ren all took battle damage without really losing any limbs. The cinematography was a bit confusing though...I could have sworn Ren lost a leg at one point and I could have sworn he was beheaded at the end but I guess they all made it out with all of their limbs in tact? Maybe? The other criticism I have against VII is how, since Rey, Finn and, Poe seem to be perfect, there's no way they aren't all One With The Force. Poe specifically was essentially Player One in Rouge Squadron on Easy; there's no way he doesn't have an affinity with The Force...oh shit, sorry I'm on a tangent.

 

[RedDeadFred]

I saw the title and immediately thought of a bunch of things to say, but it turns out you said them all in your OP. They felt more like an actual fight rather than a perfectly choreographed duel (not that those weren't also fun to watch).

 

[Dazzle Novak]

I hope whoever decided on "snowy forest at night" got due props. Simply hearing the hiss of melting snow whenever the lightsabers grazed the ground went a long way toward making them feel like, "Holy shit, these motherfuckers can burn..."

 

[laggyteabag]

Don't get me wrong, the prequels were kinda cool in that regard, because the lightsaber fights always felt very active and fast, but more than once, it felt over choreographed, particularly when people were flipping over each other, or this laughable moment which made it feel like they were just trying to be flashy, and weren't actually trying to hit each other.

In the Force Awakens, the fights were dirty, they were strong, and the fighters weren't experienced with lightsaber combat, and it showed. Rey was trying to stab Kylo, and he was just using brute force, so it was interesting to see these two with no real lightsaber training go at it with each other, as opposed to a Jedi Knight vs a Sith Lord.

Also, as for Kylo's crossguard, I think that they are technically vents, as, I believe, that the lightsaber is unstable, and so is probably generating a dangerous amount of energy, and probably getting hot or something. Tactically, however, we saw Kylo use them to stab Finn, and I suppose, do normal crossguard things, too.

 

[TheVampwizimp_v1legacy]

I always say that the lightsaber fights were the one thing from the prequels that deserved to exist. They were perhaps overly flashy, but they were cool and fun and exactly the kind of spectacle that it should be when two or more force-users with supernatural speed and reflexes try to kill each other with laser swords.

But, I did like the climactic duels in Episode VII based entirely on the fact that they made perfect sense. None of the three were experts with a lightsaber, and so they didn't have style so much as desperation. Finn's style was determined but amateurish, Rey was unsure but calm and collected, fearful but under control. And Kylo was just hacking away like the unbalanced beast he is.

In fact, Kylo Ren's use of his lightsaber was perfectly characterized through out the movie. His tantrums were just furious, undirected destruction. And at the beginning when he cut down Max Von Sydow (whatever the hell he was doing in this movie), it was so unnecessary looking. He swung his saber up over his shoulder and slashed down, like he was using a broadaxe rather than an elegant and nearly weightless weapon. He was clearly an undisciplined saber user, lots of wasted motion and vicious strokes with no form. In fact, in the ongoing debate of whether it was fair or not that Rey beat Ren at the end is answered, for me, by the fact that Ren was clearly not well-trained with a lightsaber, on top of his injuries and emotional state.

 

[Eddie the head]

I thought it was a nice balance between the first and second trilogys. The first ones where kind of unimpressive they where just beating on each other, or just touching tips. The second was just way to choreographed witch was fun the first time, but after that you may as well just watch a lava lamp.

 

[Saltyk]

Also, as for Kylo's crossguard, I think that they are technically vents, as, I believe, that the lightsaber is unstable, and so is probably generating a dangerous amount of energy, and probably getting hot or something. Tactically, however, we saw Kylo use them to stab Finn, and I suppose, do normal crossguard things, too.

I'd say that his lightsaber is definitely unstable. The blade doesn't look smooth, it looks like it has "static" coming off it. Also, I noticed that it makes a completely different sound from normal lightsabers. Where a normal lightsaber seems to hum, his seems to buzz. Now, if someone thought of that and decided the crossguard acted as a vent, or just that it looked cool, I can't say. Maybe a little of both?

 

[Sozora]

My only complaint with Episode 7's handling of lightsaber combat is that it basically casualized it. Used to be only three types of people could use lightsabers in a fight and not risk killing themselves. Jedi, Sith, and Supreme Badasses. Now any chump or greenhorn can use em and stand their ground.

Also, as for Kylo's crossguard, I think that they are technically vents, as, I believe, that the lightsaber is unstable, and so is probably generating a dangerous amount of energy, and probably getting hot or something. Tactically, however, we saw Kylo use them to stab Finn, and I suppose, do normal crossguard things, too.

I'd say that his lightsaber is definitely unstable. The blade doesn't look smooth, it looks like it has "static" coming off it. Also, I noticed that it makes a completely different sound from normal lightsabers. Where a normal lightsaber seems to hum, his seems to buzz. Now, if someone thought of that and decided the crossguard acted as a vent, or just that it looked cool, I can't say. Maybe a little of both?

The funny thing is, that's actually close to how a Sith blade probably SHOULD look. Most Sith use synthesized red crystals which are more than a little unstable and can actually (Rarely) cause an opponent's lightsaber to fizzle out.

 

[Extra-Ordinary]

I liked it. I'm going to steal from TheSw1tcher's review: They split the difference between the old and new.
The old sabers felt heavy, you know? Nobody swung unless they had a reason and were fully committed to their attack or black once they started.
The prequel sabers felt light, you could swing those suckers around willy-nilly, felt more like choreography than a fight.
Despite the way I said it, I don't hate the prequel fights, I think they look cool sometimes, I just like heavy-sabers more.

VII felt somewhere in between. They felt like you should know what you're doing if you're gonna pick one of these up. Similar to the old sabers, it felt like they were fully committed to their moves, they just made them a lot more often, probably because, like we said, these guys are new.
Altogether, I personally like seeing some weight come back to the sabers.

And as long as we're talkin' about it, I am so desperately in lurve with Kylo's lightsaber, that thing is cool. I was a little bummed out to learn that the cross-guards are vents (although from what I understand they could probably act as crossguards anyway) but I hardly care. It's different in a good way for me. It looks and sounds vicious as a weapon. That thing growls at ya, it's like a hungry dog looking for prey. If it was a normal lightsaber in those scenes where he's chasing Rey and Finn, where you hear but don't see it, it would have been ominously dangerous, you know? You hear the hum and you think "Oh, he's somewhere around here." Instead you hear it growl and it's like "OH MAN, he's comin' to get us!" Which is nice because it fits his character very well.

 

[RealRT]

Fuck that noise, give me the fights that actually look cool. I mean, yeah, they were better than "Senior citizen versus an amputee" fights of the Original Trilogy, but prequel fights looked much better.

 

[Elfgore]

I just watched a podcast earlier that talked about how they changed the lightsaber combat, they provided an example I quite like. They took it from the flashy Kung-Fu stuff and changed it to brutal western Medieval style. Both styles are cool, but I'm not gonna lie. I really like the way this is going. A lot more brutal.

 

[Zontar]

but prequel fights looked much better.

That's not true at all. Clearly fake fight look fake and uninteresting. The originals had fights that where much more interesting to watch then the prequels.

 

[RealRT]

but prequel fights looked much better.

That's not true at all. Clearly fake fight look fake and uninteresting. The originals had fights that where much more interesting to watch then the prequels.

No, what you said was not true at all. The fights were well choreographed and had neat moves in them.The fights in the originals were dull as fuck and amounted to "Dude 1 swings, Dude 2 blocks, Dude 2 swings, Dude 1 blocks, rinse and repeat." They worked only because of the novelty of seeing people duke it out with energy blades, but adding actual fight choreography to that improved it immensely.
This does not at all look like a duel between a master warrior and his rogue apprentice. This looks, as I said earlier, like a fight between a senior citizen and an amputee. Because it is. And spoiler alert, unless you are whacked in the head, those aren't really interesting to watch. And actually a bit squicky. And feels like the Star Wars equivalent of this.

 

[Zontar]

When you think about it, Darth Vader actually kinda sucks at lightsaber combat.

It may be clumsy, but at least it looks like a fight that could actually happen instead of the impossibly choreographed "aim for everything EXCEPT your opponent" fights from the prequels. I mean hell, the entire argument is always reliant on comparing the best prequel fight scene (Phantom Menace) with the worst original one (New Hope). Yet when one looks at the other two, the prequels don't have a snowball's chance in hell of holding up.



It's an argument of style over substance vs style with substance.

And spoiler alert, unless you are whacked in the head, those aren't really interesting to watch.

On the contrary, one who is whacked on the head would be much more likely to take the fights that are purely stylistic but without substance over the ones that are both stylistic and substance filled.

 

[lechat]

but prequel fights looked much better.

That's not true at all. Clearly fake fight look fake and uninteresting. The originals had fights that where much more interesting to watch then the prequels.

That pretty much sums up what was wrong with the prequels but it was all worth in in the end to see yoda flip the fuck out bouncing around with a light saber like a crazed jumping bean....... aaaand I just rewatched those fight scenes and they are weak as shit too.
geez looks like ep 7's combat was superior to the other movies but what I liked most was the sound, the sabers felt like they had weight and impact instead of being something you could just fling around like a piece of cardboard.

 

[Neverhoodian]

It was great. There was a raw, visceral energy to it all that was definitely reminiscent of Luke's duels with Vader. The sound design played a major factor in conveying this with crisp, loud cracks and hisses whenever the blades came into contact with a surface or each other.

The funny thing is, that's actually close to how a Sith blade probably SHOULD look. Most Sith use synthesized red crystals which are more than a little unstable and can actually (Rarely) cause an opponent's lightsaber to fizzle out.

I know Abrams stated that Kylo Ren crafted it himself, but I like to think it's an ancient Sith lightsaber recovered from Korriban. I also like to entertain the notion that Ren's mask actually belonged to Darth Revan.

Spoiler: I mean, just look at it

Early drafts of TFA indicated that Ren was originally going to be a collector of Sith artifacts, and nothing about the final film invalidates that interpretation. It would fit right in with his obsession for trying to emulate past Sith lords like Vader.

Hey, it's my headcanon. I can come up with whatever I want.