Poll: Steam: God's Gift or Piece of S**t

[Delusibeta]

Id consider jacking the prices on older or not so old games to be pure piracy. The games you mentioned arnt even that old and are very easily found in stores.

What, pray tell, do you consider a non-jacked price for old games? 10$? 6$?

 

[Tom Phoenix]

Personally, I do not necessarilly think that Steam is bad. Digital distribution has it's conveniences and has opened the way for indie developers to be able to easily provide their work. Plus, I understand that PC retail is in worse state in the US than it is in Europe, so it isn't really suprising that most PC gamers in the US turn to Steam.

However, I also do not think that Steam is the second coming of Christ that many other people make it out to be. In this digital distribution craze, people seem to be forgetting that it has it's weaknesses as well. By purchasing a digital copy, you preety much rescind any sort of right of being able to resell it or make backup copies of the game.

Worse still, digital property exists in a sort of "legal limbo" in that digital copies are considered a part of a service instead of being regarded as individual products. As a result, should your access to that service be terminated in some form or another (for example, your account gets banned or the company running the service files for bankruptcy), you preety much lose all the games you legally payed for and owned. Retail copies don't have that problem...since they are legally considered to be a product, once the exchange is over, that specific copy is undisputably yours and yours alone.

Lastly, while Steam does sometimes have great deals (especially in times of sales), I think people tend to overrate how much of a bargain Steam is. For example, here are some of the games that I fairly recently bought from a local online retailer (note that none of these were used copies; all of them were legit and brand new). The prices and US dollar value are provided as they stand today (August 24th, 2010):

Dragon Age: Origins [https://igabiba.joker.si/izdelek.php?menu=1&sub=1&izdelekId=2717] - 18 Euros ($22.82)
World in Conflict Complete Edition [https://igabiba.joker.si/izdelek.php?menu=1&sub=1&izdelekId=3749] (meaning it includes both the original game and the Soviet Assault expansion) - 14.50 Euros ($18.39)
Deus Ex [https://igabiba.joker.si/izdelek.php?menu=1&sub=1&izdelekId=1924] - 3.50 Euros ($4.44)
Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones Special Edition [https://igabiba.joker.si/izdelek.php?menu=1&sub=2&izdelekId=3731] (meaning it also includes Sands of Time and Warrior Within) - 14 Euros ($17.75]

Total: 50 Euros ($63.4)

In comparison, here are the current European prices for roughly the same amount of content (note that this does not include any potential limited time sales):

Dragon Age: Origins [http://store.steampowered.com/app/17450/] - 49.99 Euros ($63.39)
World in Conflict [http://store.steampowered.com/app/21760/] - 29.99 Euros ($38.03)
World in Conflict: Soviet Assault [http://store.steampowered.com/app/21910/] - 14.99 Euros ($19)
Deus Ex: Game of the Year Edition [http://store.steampowered.com/app/6910/] - 9.99 Euros ($12.67)
Prince of Persia: Sands of Time [http://store.steampowered.com/app/13600/] - 9.99 Euros ($12.67)
Prince of Persia: Warrior Within [http://store.steampowered.com/app/13500/] - 9.99 Euros ($12.67)
Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones [http://store.steampowered.com/app/13530/] - 9.99 Euros ($12.67)

Total: 134,93 Euros ($171.09)

Also, the retailer I bought these games from provides free shipping for purchases over ?30. So, by choosing to purchase these games from a local online retailer instead of Steam, I have effectively saved myself 84.93 Euros ($107.69). Plus, since I bought retail copies, I don't need to use Steam in order to play them and I retain all the rights that I have as the owner of these specific copies of games.

Now, as I said, the retail situation in the US is much different than in Europe and game prices in general tend to be more favourable across the Atlantic. But considering the comparison above, do you still think Steam is a great bargain for everyone?

Steam is a good service and I think it represents a great alternative means of distribution (and it is certainly by far the most realistic and practical one for indie developers). But note the emphasis on alternative....even if it has certain advantages, I think it would be terrible for gamers if it became the primary or even the only possible way of distribution. So for all the qualities of Steam, I still perfer retail copies...even of Valve games (thank heavens Portal 2 will be available at retail as well).

By the way, am I the only one annoyed at the fact that the Euro sign is not supported?

 

[cyber_andyy]

snip

quite the contrary, you are missing the ponit.

although it has be stated that "you don't own it", they cannot change the original data via the disc as it's not Rewritable thus meaning that the clause applies to data only that's stored on a portable/mass storage device(installed), excluding the data stored on the original disc

The EULA is pointless unless being practised in the court of law or in terms of finance for retail products.

Your still missing the point.

Its not how they can or weather they are able to, but its the fact that they can.Just like steam can stop your games, they can stop your retail disk game.


I suggest you check the context of the OQ.

 

[Continuity]

The only way steam could be better is if they could make it intravenous somehow ^^

 

[Continuity]

The idea of Steam is great, however, my position has and always will be that one developer/publisher's closed network, is a bad thing. Before I'll buy into anything like it, it would have to be a broad network, supported by many different Publishers/Developers, in order for it to be relatively bias-free and as such, worthy of my money.

Is there any evidence that Valve are biased or that they don't promote a free market and level playing field? I think they've done a marvellous job and the fact that so many publishers have flocked to steam is the proof.
What we really don't need is multiple competing distribution networks. One big network is something that cannot be allowed to fail which can only be good for the consumer.

 

[Continuity]

Is there any evidence that Valve are biased or that they don't promote a free market and level playing field? I think they've done a marvellous job and the fact that so many publishers have flocked to steam is the proof.
What we really don't need is multiple competing distribution networks. One big network is something that cannot be allowed to fail which can only be good for the consumer.

Hmm, seen any PSN, XBL, Nintendo, etc... games on Valve? No. There ya go. It's not necessarily JUST Valve's problem, however, Valve is part of the problem as they OWN Steam, and therefore have every bit of control over what does and does not go on there. The issue is mainly every company wants a closed network of their own, I'm not ok with it.

As I said, a large network run by most/all of the industry leaders, is what I require. Anything less is simply one companies closed network.

No thanks.

So basically you don't like Steam simply because it is owned and controlled by one company? and not because its actually doing anything wrong.

Also, I don't even know what point you are trying to make about PSN, XBL, and Nintendo games, you may have noticed but they are different and non-compatible platforms. Why would Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo want to pay valve to distribute their games when they have a captive audience on their own platform anyway?

Is there any evidence that Valve are biased or that they don't promote a free market and level playing field? I think they've done a marvellous job and the fact that so many publishers have flocked to steam is the proof.
What we really don't need is multiple competing distribution networks. One big network is something that cannot be allowed to fail which can only be good for the consumer.

Think about it this way, something like Amazon, or a Virtual Best Buy, where every game from every company is carried. But, funded by the major publishers in the games industry, and not just exclusive to well-known publishers. But open to any and all indie/solo creators, at a small fee (and, some kind of percentage of your profits go toward server/website costs etc...).

So exactly like Steam except not Valve owned? personally i'd rather see a responsible company like Valve at the helm rather than a confederation of cut throat asshole publishers.

 

[mad825]

Is there any evidence that Valve are biased or that they don't promote a free market and level playing field? I think they've done a marvellous job and the fact that so many publishers have flocked to steam is the proof.
What we really don't need is multiple competing distribution networks. One big network is something that cannot be allowed to fail which can only be good for the consumer.

what?
you want Steam to have an monopoly?
monopolies are a bad thing in many cases and in the case with Steam it would be very bad, they are already expensive and giving them control wont make things better.

snip

quite the contrary, you are missing the ponit.

although it has be stated that "you don't own it", they cannot change the original data via the disc as it's not Rewritable thus meaning that the clause applies to data only that's stored on a portable/mass storage device(installed), excluding the data stored on the original disc

The EULA is pointless unless being practised in the court of law or in terms of finance for retail products.

Your still missing the point.

Its not how they can or weather they are able to, but its the fact that they can.Just like steam can stop your games, they can stop your retail disk game.


I suggest you check the context of the OQ.

:/ they cannot, it only applies to information that has been installed. even then the data needs to be altered for the patches, regardless it's different from steam as there is nothing they can do about it due to the use having to manually install the patches and the fixes/changes must be displayed

if steam goes down, all games are inoperable (that tie in with the network), they cannot in any shape or form alter the data on the disc, it's virtually and physically impossible and if you don't believe go read a book.
the discs that come with retial games ARE NOT DVD+RW but ARE DVD+R therefore it's imposable on the hardware level to access the disc and alter the data

 

[Zanaxal]

IT's horrible at some parts. Really overpriced in europe, just so they can farm the foreign market, it was fine when the dollar was used in europe, but they ramped up the prices like mad when they swapped to euros.

It's so pointless that i have to log into steam, or have a internet connection to check steam to launch my singleplayer point and click adventure.

Impulse is a way better imo, It doesn't have the serious case of the LAGGGS and late late late patching.

Thats a major shitter of steam 2 it usually patches games 2-3 weeks after its official if your lucky. Point in fact. Company Of Heroes, every patch you had to wait atleast a week to be able to play online due to steam's patching was so ludicrously slow. And it download the whole 5 gigabyte game fresh for every minor bug fix patch. GJ steam!, i had a 20mb Internett connection at the time and steam rearly downloaded more then 700kb's. Impulse you ask? Almost max.

The whole launch > mandatory login > server > client way steam is set up is just aweful-

I stopped buying anything there for good.

 

[Ledan]

Hey, just wondering how the gamers at escapist feel about steam. Personally I dislike it because it does not allow me the simple act of installing my game and playing it when I want.

Ok, what exactly do you mean by that? You do realise you have to download your game files right?
Anyways, I can sense a huge flamewar starting, so im just going to get right to the point. If you know how to use steam right, Its great. If you dont, well I can imagine it being a bit challeging, but it does not take awhile to get use to, once you understand it, you will love it.

Um.... I thought I was clear, what I mean is this:
I want to buy my game, pop the CD into my laptop, Install the game, and play it within the same half-hour.

Add on top of that the entire business of ordering a CD or going into town to buy it and digital download starts sounding a hell of a lot more interesting.

At least, that's how I see it.

I love Steam, i've pretty much never had a problem with it and a lot of the problems I see people bringing up are either things that were fixed ages ago or something they personally are doing wrong.

Going to the store and checking out games is half of the fun of being a gamer. You can completely geek out at the store, stare at hundreds of games, rediscover old games and such. Besides, you're telling me you can't be bothered to get of your ass once in a while? No offense.

Hey, just wondering how the gamers at escapist feel about steam.

Really Good.
Just like Playstation Network.

Allowing you to store Virtaul versions online that you can get whenever you want, wherever you want is the best idea ever.
Anyone who thinks that's crap aren't really thinking at all.

- The whole "you don't need CD's", can be achieved by downloading legal 'NoCD' patches and cracks.

If you download a game, you don't need a CD ever. Also, I'm pretty sure the cracks aren't legal. If they were, they wouldn't be cracks. You would just be able to install and play without a CD. It's legal with Steam because there is at least some measure of DRM with Steam, although relatively lax.

Of course Steam isn't perfect, but it just feels so much easier for me to have everything in one place and always automatically updating without waiting until I play the game or, even worse, needing me to notice the need for a patch, then go out and find one. Plus, I can know that any game I purchased on Steam will allow me to use the Steam overlay to chat with my friends or quickly browse the internet to check something about a game or stream music as I play.

My biggest problem with it, though, is that I will always feel a little paranoid about the risks of putting all my eggs in one basket. My account is worth hundreds of dollars, and I hope to God nobody hijacks it. At least I know not to click suspicious links, and I've never really liked making "friends" with strangers, but I still feel a little worried sometimes...

Perfectly legal. The conditions of me using a game are that I am not allowed to sell it, or modify it and sell it, nor claim that I made it, etc. A no CD Crack is like a custom mod for a game, nothing illegal. You are allowed to modify the files however you want, you just void a guarantee that the game will work.

Now, for all of you. Steam takes up an effing amount of space, and each game takes up twice the space it needs to since it is encrypted to only work with steam. If you cant acces the internet, and have not already put it in offline mode, you will probably be unable to access it. There is the option to choose offline mode, but if you do this too often then it stops working. The whole "I can download it wherever I want" argument is bullshit, because it only works with your account, and my friends wouldn't let me spend a couple of hours downloading a game that they then cant play. Furthermore, if I were to change my computer, it would be the same hassle to download these games as if I installed them again.
But I have tried Impulse. Works faster, better, and I can play the game without using it. Perfect.
(I wonder why this post has suddenly gotten active again)

 

[Ickorus]

Hey, just wondering how the gamers at escapist feel about steam. Personally I dislike it because it does not allow me the simple act of installing my game and playing it when I want.

Ok, what exactly do you mean by that? You do realise you have to download your game files right?
Anyways, I can sense a huge flamewar starting, so im just going to get right to the point. If you know how to use steam right, Its great. If you dont, well I can imagine it being a bit challeging, but it does not take awhile to get use to, once you understand it, you will love it.

Um.... I thought I was clear, what I mean is this:
I want to buy my game, pop the CD into my laptop, Install the game, and play it within the same half-hour.

Add on top of that the entire business of ordering a CD or going into town to buy it and digital download starts sounding a hell of a lot more interesting.

At least, that's how I see it.

I love Steam, i've pretty much never had a problem with it and a lot of the problems I see people bringing up are either things that were fixed ages ago or something they personally are doing wrong.

Going to the store and checking out games is half of the fun of being a gamer. You can completely geek out at the store, stare at hundreds of games, rediscover old games and such. Besides, you're telling me you can't be bothered to get of your ass once in a while? No offense.

I can check out those games on steam easily and I can chat with friends whilst doing so.

I also never said I can't be bothered to get off my ass once in a while so that was clearly meant to insult regardless of the 'no offense' at the end, my point was that it's a hell of a lot easier and faster to buy it on steam and then download it than to travel to your local store to buy it. (It can also end up cheaper too if you take into account travel costs)

 

[Jark212]

I think that it's really good, It takes a long time for me to download a game (like 10 hours at 165kb/s (Crap internet connection)) but over all I'm really glad that I have it...

 

[XSA37]

I personally really like steam. It's just an easy tool to manage the games that I own and a great way to find out about new games or upcoming patches to current games.

In addition, Steam tends to feature sales which greatly increase its value. I love that I can but games that are $50 or more in retail cost for 33 or even 50% off if I catch a deal.