Poll: Steam Machines: Am I missing the sales pitch?

[Vigormortis]

Yeah thats right Gabe isn't going to integrate Steam into the the O/S. That's the whole point, Valve are doing this to make money. Google make money hand over fist out of android app sales and yet you can buy from elsewhere, but people dont.

Did I say Steam wasn't integrated into SteamOS? No, I said SteamOS is a proprietary build of Debian.

Even so, that doesn't prevent people from installing other software on the OS, including other games and game clients.

Where are you getting the idea that SteamOS is only usable with Steam?

Honestly, I am baffled at the level of misinformation out there on SteamOS and Steam Machines. SteamOS has been freely available for personal use for months and virtually all the information one needs in understanding what Steam Machines are is on the Steam hardware store pages. Why there are still so many misconceptions is beyond me.

 

[Albino Boo]

Yeah thats right Gabe isn't going to integrate Steam into the the O/S. That's the whole point, Valve are doing this to make money. Google make money hand over fist out of android app sales and yet you can buy from elsewhere, but people dont.

Did I say Steam wasn't integrated into SteamOS? No, I said SteamOS is a proprietary build of Debian.

Even so, that doesn't prevent people from installing other software on the OS, including other games and game clients.

Where are you getting the idea that SteamOS is only usable with Steam?

I didn't

OK, is there an announcement I've missed or something? Why, and probably more importantly, how is that implemented?

Sort of makes sense. They've already cornered the pc market, why would they allow their competitors a foothold on their proprietary pc?

Its the same as android. Yes you can install from other sources than the android store but its the one 95% of all purchases use. Steam will be integrated into the O/S but like steam on windows you will have the option off adding a key or a non steam game.

Its not me

 

[Maximum Bert]

Im not really sure who it is pitched to to be honest but it seems a very niche market maybe those with disposable income that for some reason want an extra PC to game on but havent got that already because....?

Time will tell but so far I see no reason to buy one get a PC like you would normally or get a console as pretty much everyone who is interested in gaming and can afford to has already.

Steam Machines are nothing more than "gaming optimized" pre-built PCs. So the target market is, hypothetically, the people who purchase pre-built PCs with the intention of using them to play games.


A market that is anything but niche.

Yeah so they are targeting a market that is already filled pre built gaming PCs are a thing sure but I dont know about you but most people I know who use PCs use it for work primarily and gaming second. Why would they care about a steam machine when they could get one pre built regardless as it stands? what would make someone who has a PC go out and buy a steam machine?

There is no exclusives there is no fixed hardware devs can take advantage of so what does that leave a just a machine that does the same as your PC only without the windows OS built in?

Plus the way they have branded it is confusing as hell for a start most casual people those that dont keep up with gaming much dont know they exist. Those who are super into PC gaming will mostly build their own then there are those who game on PC just because they have a PC for work that will run games.

Like I said though we will see how they sell personally I cant see them being very popular or useful.

 

[Gretha Unterberg]

Who is this marketed to?
WHY would you spend upwards of $500 when you have the ease of hooking up your PC to your TV?
DO YOU think this is a good investment?

The long game.
The PC marked is already monopolised by steam.
Time to invade the other platforms.


What is the reason for console X over console Y in the first place?
The games.


the steambox wants to be the console with the PC games libary (what covers most none-nintendo console games)
and gain a foothold by allowing you not to loose your libary during generation shifts and lower game prices.


If you already have a decent PC, then you aren't the target audience
for this since your mainreason for owning a console are exclusives titles.
And high profile PC-exclusives are rare (for now).

But imagine you are console player who buys mainly crossplatform games , 6 years down the road.
Do you want the console with almoust every PC game in existence as launch libary , cheeper games in the long run if you are low on money or slightly better hardware if you got the cash and want things more fance, smoth, modded, etc.

Or the XBox tWo with ..... what ever they consider cooler then TV! and the kinect

 

[Vigormortis]

I didn't

Then I'm confused where your point of contention is with what I said previously.

Yeah so they are targeting a market that is already filled pre built gaming PCs are a thing sure but I dont know about you but most people I know who use PCs use it for work primarily and gaming second. Why would they care about a steam machine when they could get one pre built regardless as it stands? what would make someone who has a PC go out and buy a steam machine?

Why would someone buy a Playstation 4 when they can get an Xbox One? The Xbox One already fills the need of a market for console gaming. Why would anyone want to get a Playstation 4?

For the same reason they'd want a Steam Machine. For a specific gaming experience.

Believe it or not, most PC gamers aren't that tech savvy. Most play their games on the family computer or on pre-builts designed for gaming. Those who build homebrew rigs are in the minority.

Where do Steam Machines fit into that market? They fit into the portion that wants a dedicated gaming machine, optimized for gaming specifically, that comes preconfigured to take full advantage of Steam and it's feature sets.

So, if we extrapolate the data on the number of Steam users (current and potential) who are on the look out for a new PC, and the number of pre-built-buyers who are looking for an optimized gaming rig, we can get a picture of the potential market for Steam Machines.

A market that could range from zero to millions.

There is no exclusives there is no fixed hardware devs can take advantage of so what does that leave a just a machine that does the same as your PC only without the windows OS built in?

You're left with a machine built around Debian/SteamOS, meaning it's more optimized for gaming, thanks to the lack of bloat present in a comparable Windows environment.

Plus the way they have branded it is confusing as hell for a start most casual people those that dont keep up with gaming much dont know they exist. Those who are super into PC gaming will mostly build their own then there are those who game on PC just because they have a PC for work that will run games.

Again, you are drastically underestimating the size of the market for pre-built gaming PCs.

The assumption that those "who are super into PC gaming" all build their own machines is just incorrect. Companies like Alienware, FalconNorthwest, Origin PC, etc, are quite successful, and their target markets are primarily those "who are super into PC gaming".

Like I said though we will see how they sell personally I cant see them being very popular or useful.

And since they're effectively as useful as other pre-built gaming PCs, only with the potential to be more powerful with lesser hardware, their popularity will largely come down to how hard the manufacturers push them. (and how much they make people aware of the advantages)

As it stands? Alienware and others are pushing them pretty hard. So we'll see.

 

[Albino Boo]

I didn't

Then I'm confused where your point of contention is with what I said previously.

There isn't a point of contention its that you failed to read what I wrote. You comments indicated that you think that steam isn't going to be integrated into SteamOS

 

[DrOswald]

Who is this marketed to?
WHY would you spend upwards of $500 when you have the ease of hooking up your PC to your TV?
DO YOU think this is a good investment?

The problem here is you are trying to figure out why YOU would want it. And you wouldn't. It is like trying to market a bra to a man. Outside some very special cases, men do not want bras. You are so far out of the target market that you are having a hard time even beginning to understand why someone would want it.

I can tell you who it is for. Social and busy gamers, family/friends of gamers, and parent gamers, and rich gamers.

Social: Me and my wife love to play games together, but moving my computer to hook up to the TV is a big hassle. Because we are parents, our gaming time is limited, and having to move my PC is too much effort to get us up and running. We end up playing console titles together because it is just too hard to get the PC up and running for couch play.

Family/friends: My wife wants her own gaming PC. I know a guy who wants to break into PC gaming but doesn't want to deal with the hassle of building a machine for his first gaming PC. The steam machine is great for both cases. I can scope out the details and advise them on the machine to buy.

Parent Gamers: My daughter is eventually going to be old enough to play games. I have a library of several hundred games, many of which will be fine for a young child. But my gaming PC is mine, I need it for work as well as my own gaming, so I don't want to let her use mine. So I am going to want to get her a separate machine. It will also have the advantage of being a dedicated machine, so I can lock it down properly.

Rich Gamers: If you have enough money to buy a boat you have enough money to have a second gaming machine for the convenience of not having to move your PC when you feel like couch gaming.

As a young family of gamers, I can basically guarantee you we will be getting at least 1 steam machine if the idea pans out. I would not be surprised if we end up with 2 eventually.

 

[kasperbbs]

I'm already playing the Witcher on the sofa with a wireless controller, i don't see myself buying this thing for any reason, i bet i could build a much more powerful PC for the money they charge.

 

[Yopaz]

Haven't there already been half a million threads on this already?

Steam machines are prebuilt PCs that are shipped with the SteamOS and the Steam controller. Don't like the OS? Install Windows, install Gentoo, install Ubuntu, install Debian, install Mepis, install Suse or whatever other kind of OS you want.

Why would you want a PC that's made to be connected to your TV when it's so easy to connect your PC to the TV? Well, I don't know about you guys, but I have my computer at my desk. All cables are out of the way and I have to dive under my desk to disconnect everything, then move it across the room (in my current setup) or down one floor to connect it to the TV when I'm at my other setup. Then I have to bring the keyboard, the mouse, the power cable, I'll have to drag an ethernet cable across the room because I don't have a wireless card (and not trip over that cable every time I move somewhere). This process may take me up to 15 minutes and whenever I work on my computer (which is often) I have to move it back and I have to go through the process again. I also have to change the resolution every time to to make it fit the TV screen. So the "ease of connecting your PC to your TV"... yeah, I don't see it. I know I can make this easier, but then I would have to change my setup.
Edit: I realize now that this is a process that's easy when you have a gaming laptop. Personally I would ask who would actually want a gaming laptop? It costs more than the equivalent desktop computer, it has bigger problems with heat, it's heavier than the average laptop making it unsuitable for bringing with you as a primary work laptop if you also have to carry lots of other things, the heating issues affect battery life, hard drive life and may sometimes fry the graphics card.

Is it a good investment? No, of course not. A good investment would mean that it pays off and no consumer electronics actually do. You'll never be able to consider buying a console, a PC, a DVD player or a Hi-Fi system and consider it a good investment.

As for who it is for? Well, some people is starting to get fed up with consoles and some people are getting fed up with Windows (or Microsoft in general). Some people want a gaming PC for the family and Windows is not a good system for kids. My nephew was going to install GTA IV on his computer by pressing a link that said GTA IV FOR FREE DOWNLOAD!!!!! which most adults know is the fastest way to get a virus, this is currently not a problem in any Linux distribution (including SteamOS).

Now, that aside I do not want one for now. It is a pre-built PC and I like having control of my components. I also don't really connect my PC to the TV and rely mostly on console games for my TV (I have plenty). I might test out the SteamOS at some point using a virtual system, but that's just out of curiosity rather than a desire to use SteamOS (which is compatible with any PC because it's just an OS made to be used on a PC). I like what Valve is doing, but I need my computer for work things so I won't change the OS.

 

[Vigormortis]

There isn't a point of contention its that you failed to read what I wrote. You comments indicated that you think that steam isn't going to be integrated into SteamOS

Um...no, they didn't.

All I said was that SteamOS is a proprietary, slimmed down build of Debian - and that this means that users can install and run just about anything that'll run on Debian. I never once indicated that SteamOS wouldn't have Steam integrated into it.

And again, even if SteamOS somehow prevented users from installing other software (it doesn't), that wouldn't stop users from being able to install other operating systems on the machine.

So...I'm still confused on where the issue is. But if you can point to the exact phrase wherein I said SteamOS wouldn't have Steam integration, please do so, and I'll stand corrected.

 

[Elijin]

Apart from half your info being wrong...

The Steam Machine is directed at the user who wants to dip their toe in the PC waters. For the user who wants a quick easy setup to link their TV, without disturbing their work/family PC.

The escapist is a place with a strong PC community, who will just go on about how 'just buy a hdmi cable' or 'just stream to your tv' etc etc etc.

Not everyone is as invested as you in their PC. Not everyone has the same equipment as you. Not everyone wants to have their PC in the living room, or cords crossing the house. Not everyone wants to play on a TV, without setups designed for it. (Mouse and KB on your lap/stable table are gross. Im sure many of you do it and will swear its totally usable etc etc, but thats familiarity with a set up.)

Basically its a big ole case of 'Just because its not for you, doesnt mean it shouldnt exist'

 

[Smooth Operator]

Well you know how to set up a gaming PC, how many other people around you can do that? I'm not talking other PC gamers around you, I'm talking out of anyone you know...

I know only select few that have either the knowledge or bravery to attempt such a thing on their own, and everybody else needs to rely on things coming pre-made. That is the audience Steam machines are for, the person who fears PCs and doesn't know what to do with them, which is a vast majority of the general public.
Upgrading, OS and game limitations will only come from manufacturer side, Valve could also enforce this but they have shown no intent thus far because they have won their market mostly with convenience and far less with forced coercion. And if the audience of your PC/console is buying them on account of convenience you really don't need to worry they will defect half way through, some will but that again is the select few in an ocean of straight line consumers.

Will a power PC user have need for it... maybe as a backup, otherwise you can already do anything they do.

 

[Maximum Bert]

Yeah so they are targeting a market that is already filled pre built gaming PCs are a thing sure but I dont know about you but most people I know who use PCs use it for work primarily and gaming second. Why would they care about a steam machine when they could get one pre built regardless as it stands? what would make someone who has a PC go out and buy a steam machine?

Why would someone buy a Playstation 4 when they can get an Xbox One? The Xbox One already fills the need of a market for console gaming. Why would anyone want to get a Playstation 4?

For the same reason they'd want a Steam Machine. For a specific gaming experience.

What, why choose one console over another? well mostly people do it for exclusives or as was the case of this console gen the PS4 was cheaper and the Xbox One had shall we say a few things people took issue with on launch. But yeah all things equal its the exclusives.

Now what exclusives does the Steam Machine have? what advantages does it have over a PC? (something in most homes already) a console will be relevant for many years people wont have to upgrade the games will run for it people who arent tech savvy appreciate this they dont want to risk buying a game and it not running on the expensive piece of kit they just bought Steam Machines dont do this they are just PCs again and we have PCs we have prebuilt Pcs already this is nothing new so why are they even making a thing out of this?

Also which Steam Machine are you buying just for interest?

I see the poll is going well shows how much people are looking forward to them.

It could have offered a nice easy way to get PC games but as it stands with all the different models its just gonna confuse the hell out of people not already at least a little PC literate. If it takes off I will be amazed I fully expect them to be mostly forgotten about unless ofc Valve really does make an OS that is a rival to Windows on it that could be interesting but they could do that in other ways.

 

[Vigormortis]

What, why choose one console over another? well mostly people do it for exclusives or as was the case of this console gen the PS4 was cheaper and the Xbox One had shall we say a few things people took issue with on launch. But yeah all things equal its the exclusives.

That's assumptive. I know plenty of people who buy one over the other for reasons besides 'the exclusives'. Some buy based on what they want out of the online community. Others for the controller and other included hardware.

But even if it's for 'the exclusives', it doesn't disprove my point. They're buying a specific platform for the unique experience that platform offers. And Steam offers a unique experience.

what advantages does it have over a PC?

Steam Machines ARE PCs. So the question is moot and nonsensical.

Though, depending on the individual title, SteamOS offers better performance for gaming than Windows does.

a console will be relevant for many years people wont have to upgrade the games will run for it people who arent tech savvy appreciate this they dont want to risk buying a game and it not running on the expensive piece of kit they just bought Steam Machines dont do this they are just PCs again and we have PCs we have prebuilt Pcs already this is nothing new so why are they even making a thing out of this?

With a run-on sentence like that it's a bit hard to know what you're actually saying, but I'll try to address it.

If you buy a good PC near or soon after the launch window of a console, you'll be fine to run any game that comes out on the consoles. You might not be able to max out the graphical settings, but then...the console versions are usually running at minimum settings anyway.

It also seems as though you completely missed the point I was trying to make earlier. You keep saying, "PCs already exist. Why would someone want a Steam Machine?" Besides the specific reasons I've already given prior, the biggest reason is: because they're PCs.

Let me make a small change to your question. "Cellphones already exist. Why would someone want to buy an iPhone?"

Why? Because of the unique experience the device offers through the combination of it's hardware and associated platform. Same goes for Steam Machines.

Also which Steam Machine are you buying just for interest?

None, yet. But please, do feel free to use that bit of info as if it somehow invalidates my points.

I see the poll is going well shows how much people are looking forward to them.

Yes, because The Escapist community polls have always been completely accurate representations of the gaming community and market at large. That's clearly why games like Call of Duty and Grand Theft Auto win Game Of the Year during March Mayhem.

Or maybe, people on this community are either still confused as to what Steam Machines are (evident by threads like this) or they're not the target market.

It could have offered a nice easy way to get PC games but as it stands with all the different models its just gonna confuse the hell out of people not already at least a little PC literate.

If existing pre-built PCs don't do this, why would Steam Machines? Your logic confuses me greatly.

If it takes off I will be amazed I fully expect them to be mostly forgotten about unless ofc Valve really does make an OS that is a rival to Windows on it that could be interesting but they could do that in other ways.

SteamOS isn't meant as a competitor for Windows. It's purpose is to offer a minimalist OS environment for optimized gaming on Linux.

Honestly, I really don't get half of the criticisms I'm seeing here. Many seem based on misinformation and your conclusions seem to boil down to, "I don't get what they are and I don't want one. Therefore, no one else will want one either."

 

[Alarien]

As a person who has two gaming PC's (mine and my wife's) which I built myself, as well as a gaming laptop which I used on business travel, I can say that I would be the target audience *if* the prices and hardware were something I couldn't easily beat on my own. Right now at $500 for a fairly low spec machine, I'm not particularly interested.

However, if, over time, Steam Machines began to really complete with consoles for prices (say, $300-400 for specs higher than console, but not necessarily dedicated PC tower), I would certainly consider it.

My gaming PC's are in our office room, far from the main TV. The main TV has my travel/gaming laptop hooked up to it for games that we play as a family, but I'd consider a Steam Machine as a more permanent replacement to the laptop, since I have to regularly unhook and take the laptop out for travel.

It's not a bad idea at all, it just hasn't hit the price point to be appealing outside of a specific niche.

 

[lacktheknack]

OK, is there an announcement I've missed or something? Why, and probably more importantly, how is that implemented?

Sort of makes sense. They've already cornered the pc market, why would they allow their competitors a foothold on their proprietary pc?

Ah, wild mass guessing. It's never accurate.

As the first guy asked, HOW is it implemented? They'd have to rewrite the OS so that it's no longer recognizable as Linux. Which they won't, because then the Steam games wouldn't work.

By nature, any other Linux game you've purchased from, say, gog.com or humblebundle.com will also be available for the platform... assuming you don't just install Windows on the sucker for good measure.

 

[Maximum Bert]

*big snip*

So they are PCs they offer nothing a PC out there cant do already and actually less unless you install other software (most likely windows) and thats the problem its a non entity.

People upgrade Pcs yup I get that and yes if your looking for a new PC that is focused around playing game and you have disposable income and are not tech savvy enough to build one but have enough to be able to tell the different machines apart then they may be considered.

I think the problem is that they have been marketed horribly they are just PCs with Valves seal slapped on made by disparate PC manufacturers. So why would I get a steam machine instead of another prebuilt PC?

As for phones a lot of people are on contracts for that and just get them upgraded but as for others who arent yeah I dont get why you would upgrade to a new phone unless it offers something your old one did not and ofc a lot of people dont but a small percentage will shell out stupid money just to get the latest usually because of brand loyalty or some crap and it works for some so maybe thats who Valve are targeting.

You have already answered my rhetorical question though by saying Steam Machines are PCs and that is the point I was making there is zero reason to buy one if you are happy with your PC it literally offers no new experience that can only be enjoyed on that platform severely limiting its market because its already filled by countless other choices. More competition is not bad however but I am not getting one you are not getting one and I dont know anybody in RL who is so we will have to wait and see how it plays out for them.

EDIT for clarification: jus saying Steam Machines are not creating a new market nor are they filling a hole on the market they are just putting more into that market. The rebranding as Steam Machines is just to try and make them stand out from another pre built PC which is what they are. Im sure they will sell just like Pre built Pcs but they are nothing more than that and as such I struggle to think of a reason for their existance. Originally I was led to believe it would offer convenient and affordable PC gaming but they have done no more for that cause than an ordinary Pre built PC.

Time will tell anyway just because something is the same as something else doesnt mean it wont be successful as I said branding power is a powerful thing but they have no hook other than this which is not really the strongest pitch.

 

[DoPo]

*big snip*

So they are PCs they offer nothing a PC out there cant do already and actually less unless you install other software (most likely windows) and thats the problem its a non entity.

Again - they offer convenience. That's about it.

I think the problem is that they have been marketed horribly they are just PCs with Valves seal slapped on made by disparate PC manufacturers. So why would I get a steam machine instead of another prebuilt PC?

Why would you get one pre-built PC instead of another? It's pretty much the EXACT same reason.

As for phones a lot of people are on contracts for that and just get them upgraded but as for others who arent yeah I dont get why you would upgrade to a new phone unless it offers something your old one did not and ofc a lot of people dont but a small percentage will shell out stupid money just to get the latest usually because of brand loyalty or some crap and it works for some so maybe thats who Valve are targeting.

Not answering the actual question. Why get an iPhone, instead of "not an iPhone"? Because this was the question, not whether people are on contracts or whatever.

there is zero reason to buy one if you are happy with your PC

I'm not entirely sure why you thought that point was worth bringing up but you are absolutely correct. I'd also like to point out that the sun rises from the west.

 

[Laughing Man]

The Steamboxes are dead in the water, if they had launched a year ago with the intended dynamics then they may have grabbed a small but niche market but since then a lot has changed.

- The Steamboxes have been bastardised to the point that the concept of a small form cheap entry level PC for gaming is meaningless. |The original concept would have been an easy entry for a nub to the market three or so machines; cheap and weak, medium and meh and expensive and powerful. Now you have hundreds of variants by a dozen or so PC builders and if you have to do research in to which one is best for you then you are better just getting a full on Windows based PC.

The idea that they are optimised for gaming is laughable, optimised in that of the 4000 games that can be bought from the Steam store front only 1000 actually work with Linux. God only knows what percentage of Origin and Uplay games work on the OS.

The small market of existing high end PC gamers that would have bought one just to stream to home TV systems has been served by new dedicated devices that do the job better and cheaper, fuck Nvidia are doing this and their system is actually pretty good.

Steam is awful, a proper piece of shit, someone else posted a list your issues that you want fixed with Steam thread somewhere else on these forums. I actually had to avoid responding because the list of issues with this POS client is shameful. Let's remember that Valve have been chipping away at this turd for over a decade the last thing anyone wants is an OS being driven by Steam.

The only reason Valve went for Linux is because they clearly don't have the skill or support to build their own OS from the ground up. Others will say they went for Linux because it's free which gives them a price cut over an equivalent Windows based PC and others will say some nonsense about games running better on Linux (mostly games that on even a middling Windows based PC you would be getting 100FPS anyway.) The real reason they went with Linux is because Gabe threw a hissy fit over Windows 8 shortly after it's launch, accusing MS of attempting to install it's own distribution system at the expense of rivals. Since then MS has decided that anyone who wants a free copy of Win 10 can have one (bam goes the cost advantage) and if the rumours regarding Dx12s API software to hardware interface are true then bam their goes Linux's performance advantage. Oh did I mention that only a quarter of Steam's games actually work on Linux?

Their is no market for this system

The folk looking for an easy gaming life will just buy the faster, easier and better designed consoles
The folk looking for hardcore PC gaming will buy or build a dedicated system and if they want to stream will end up using Nvidia or a dedicated device that does a much better job
The folk that sit between will be put off by the limitations created by having Linux as the OS and the fact that the range of systems has gone from a few easy choices to a range of 100 or more devices by a dozen or so manufacturers

 

[Vigormortis]

snip

Dopo answered many of the points I was going to address, but I'll just add a summation that I think can answer most of your questions.

Steam Machines aren't meant to be some end-all-be-all gaming machines designed to overthrow the entire market. They are, to put it simply, an alternate choice of PC platform.

Think of it this way: Someone's in the market for a new PC - a purely gaming-oriented machine, in this instance. They aren't looking to build one themselves (either for lack of knowledge or unwillingness to do so), so they decide to look for a pre-built. They narrow down their choices of manufacturers and proceed to look at what's available within their price range.

Now, the manufacturer gives them a few choices. Over here's a line of Windows-based PCs that fit within the buyer's price range. And over here is a line of Steam Machines that also fit into that price range.

The buyer, being a frequent user of Steam, is looking for a way to maximize the quality of his gaming experience while not maximizing the price tag. The manufacturer (or some other source) gives him a sampling of performance numbers of the games he plays on the Windows machines, and the performance numbers for the same games running on the Steam Machines.

If the latter numbers show a marked improvement, but the price tags are roughly similar to the price tags seen on the equivalent Windows machines, the buyer is likely to go with the Steam Machines instead.

Now, from my own experience, the performance of SteamOS isn't entirely clear just yet. But, through my own testing, I have seen performance improvement with some games as compared to their Windows versions. I can't say this is a universal improvement, but there is some.

If this becomes a defining factor of Steam Machines, there will be a market for them. People will go with the machine that gives them "more bang for their buck".