Poll: Steampunk as a sub-genre...

[BonsaiK]

This whole question doesn't even make sense. Why?

Because all science fiction is fantasy, but not all fantasy is science fiction.

(Okay, stay with me on this one)

Fantasy is a broad genre which covers "things that are not possible in today's world or through verifiable history", i.e "fantasy" as opposed to "reality".

Science fiction is a fantasy sub-genre - fantasy concerning the future or "futuristic" elements, technically might not actually be the future per se but the common theme is technology that does things today's technology cannot.

Medieval fantasy is also a fantasy sub-genre, the common theme being a certain adherence to medieval aesthetics, clothes, weaponry, creatures from medieval folk tales such as dragons etc. May or may not actually be in the past, and sometimes medieval and science fiction elements of fantasy merge (like in for instance, Anne McCaffrey's books).

Steampunk is also a fantasy sub-genre, it borrows a little from both science fiction and medieval fantasy, but it also has a style of its own.

If your question is, instead - and I think this is what you really meant to ask - "is steampunk more medieval or more on the sci-fi side?"... well, that depends on who's telling the story and where and how they choose to tell their steampunk tale. Bioshock for my money leans toward the sci-fi side. Thief leans for me more towards the medieval side. It all depends, there is no definitive answer to this question, you have to take it on a case by case basis as the lines blur between these sub-genres often.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Why do people keep on reffering to Bioshock as steampunk? It isn't! It just has an Art deco style to it. Plus, it's indeed Art Deco from the late 40's/early 50's (after that the city collapsed so it's stuck in that time), and not Victorian (or in other words, 19th century) like steampunk is.

Yup, it's too advanced to be steampunk, simple as that.

This whole question doesn't even make sense. Why?

Because all science fiction is fantasy, but not all fantasy is science fiction.

(Okay, stay with me on this one)

Fantasy is a broad genre which covers "things that are not possible in today's world or through verifiable history", i.e "fantasy" as opposed to "reality".

This man speaks the truth. But steampunk isn't medieval, it's Victorian!

 

[Neosage]

[small]I would put it as science-fiction myself, just because there is more machinery and less swords.[/small]

 

[The Infamous Scamola]

Why do people keep on reffering to Bioshock as steampunk? It isn't! It just has an Art deco style to it.

Yup, it's too advanced to be steampunk, simple as that.

People don't seem to notice the obvious differences between Victorian style and Art deco.

 

[Neosage]

Why do people keep on reffering to Bioshock as steampunk? It isn't! It just has an Art deco style to it.

[small] Surely it being set in the victorian age, the old timey music and the whole steam thing, would suggest it was steampunk? [/small]

Edit: Apparently it isn't set in the victorian age, shows how much attention I paid.

 

[Alex_P]

Fantasy is a broad genre which covers "things that are not possible in today's world or through verifiable history", i.e "fantasy" as opposed to "reality".

I don't think that's an accurate or useful description of "fantasy". Is Fall of the House of Usher fantasy? Is Chronicle of a Death Foretold? Is House of Leaves? Is Master and Margarita?

I think "fantasy" is only at all useful as a genre label when it describes a specific genre -- a particular set of themes, conventions, and tropes.

-- Alex

 

[Mullahgrrl]

Steampunk is my favourite sub-genre if by sub-genre we mean genres with subs in them.

No 2 is the peasant wedding by Pieter Bruegel the Elder(Badumtish!)

 

[The Infamous Scamola]

Why do people keep on reffering to Bioshock as steampunk? It isn't! It just has an Art deco style to it.

[small] Surely it being set in the victorian age, the old timey music and the whole steam thing, would suggest it was steampunk? [/small]

Except it wasn't: Bioshock was set in 1960, Rapture was built in 46', most of the music is music from the 30s, the whole city is decorated in Art deco style, which was very popular from the 20s until the beginning of the second world war, the whole bioshock world is based upon the dystopian writings of 20th century authors like Ayn Rand and George Orwell.

There is nothing steampunk in Bioshock.

 

[BonsaiK]

Why do people keep on reffering to Bioshock as steampunk? It isn't! It just has an Art deco style to it.

Yup, it's too advanced to be steampunk, simple as that.

This whole question doesn't even make sense. Why?

Because all science fiction is fantasy, but not all fantasy is science fiction.

(Okay, stay with me on this one)

Fantasy is a broad genre which covers "things that are not possible in today's world or through verifiable history", i.e "fantasy" as opposed to "reality".

This man speaks the truth. But steampunk isn't medieval, it's Victorian!

If you were to play Thief you would see that steampunk can be medieval. Although yes, steam was a product of that Victorian era in history.

The common thread in Steampunk, if you ask me, isn't the actual "steam" though. It's the idea of some elements of technology advancing while others lag behind (using real history as a reference point here) and the resulting mix of modern and ancient technology informing the aesthetics of the setting. The Thief games have all sorts of high-tech steam-driven apparatus like alarms, mecha robot walker things, and so on, but nobody ever wields a pistol or a rifle even though rifles in the real world are hundreds of years old and conversely the kickass mecha robot still is in its infancy even today. Bioshock has electronic vending machines and automatic gun turrets but no computers. There was another FPS released a while back (don't recall the name) that had bad-ass rifles and cannons of all types but the car hadn't been invented yet so artillery was drawn by horse. That's the defining element that unites all steampunk literature. What period in history it's set in, and how much actual "steam" there is, that's basically irrelevant.

 

[BonsaiK]

Why do people keep on reffering to Bioshock as steampunk? It isn't! It just has an Art deco style to it.

[small] Surely it being set in the victorian age, the old timey music and the whole steam thing, would suggest it was steampunk? [/small]

Except it wasn't: Bioshock was set in 1960, Rapture was built in 46', most of the music is music from the 30s, the whole city is decorated in Art deco style, which was very popular from the 20s until the beginning of the second world war, the whole bioshock world is based upon the dystopian writings of 20th century authors like Ayn Rand and George Orwell.

There is nothing steampunk in Bioshock.

Actually, you've explained perfectly why Bioshock IS steampunk.

 

[The Infamous Scamola]

Why do people keep on reffering to Bioshock as steampunk? It isn't! It just has an Art deco style to it.

[small] Surely it being set in the victorian age, the old timey music and the whole steam thing, would suggest it was steampunk? [/small]

Except it wasn't: Bioshock was set in 1960, Rapture was built in 46', most of the music is music from the 30s, the whole city is decorated in Art deco style, which was very popular from the 20s until the beginning of the second world war, the whole bioshock world is based upon the dystopian writings of 20th century authors like Ayn Rand and George Orwell.

There is nothing steampunk in Bioshock.

Actually, you've explained perfectly why Bioshock IS steampunk.

What? The fact that you just said that just prooves that you do not know what Steampunk means.

 

[Neosage]

Why do people keep on reffering to Bioshock as steampunk? It isn't! It just has an Art deco style to it.

[small] Surely it being set in the victorian age, the old timey music and the whole steam thing, would suggest it was steampunk? [/small]

Except it wasn't: Bioshock was set in 1960, Rapture was built in 46', most of the music is music from the 30s, the whole city is decorated in Art deco style, which was very popular from the 20s until the beginning of the second world war, the whole bioshock world is based upon the dystopian writings of 20th century authors like Ayn Rand and George Orwell.

There is nothing steampunk in Bioshock.

[small]Steampunk doesn't neccesarily have to be victorian, just oldish and have lots of brass machines and pipes, rust is good too. Goggles also help. Hell if everything that was steampunk was victorian, there would be no steampunk.[/small]

 

[BonsaiK]

Why do people keep on reffering to Bioshock as steampunk? It isn't! It just has an Art deco style to it.

[small] Surely it being set in the victorian age, the old timey music and the whole steam thing, would suggest it was steampunk? [/small]

Except it wasn't: Bioshock was set in 1960, Rapture was built in 46', most of the music is music from the 30s, the whole city is decorated in Art deco style, which was very popular from the 20s until the beginning of the second world war, the whole bioshock world is based upon the dystopian writings of 20th century authors like Ayn Rand and George Orwell.

There is nothing steampunk in Bioshock.

Actually, you've explained perfectly why Bioshock IS steampunk.

What? The fact that you just said that just prooves that you do not know what Steampunk means.

Read my other post just above this one.

 

[Alex_P]

Actually, you've explained perfectly why Bioshock IS steampunk.

Steampunk is primarily a self-consciously retro return to the kinds of science-fictional technology that Verne and Wells wrote about.

-- Alex

 

[Palindromemordnilap_v1legacy]

I would have placed it in its own category myself, simply to avoid muddying any waters

 

[Danzaivar]

Why do people keep on reffering to Bioshock as steampunk? It isn't! It just has an Art deco style to it.

[small] Surely it being set in the victorian age, the old timey music and the whole steam thing, would suggest it was steampunk? [/small]

The reign of Queen Victoria was the Victorian era, 1837 to 1901. Bioshock is set in the 1960's I think?

Don't get me wrong, I'd say that Bioshock does have steam-punk elements, but it was definitely NOT set in the Victorian era. o_o

 

[The Infamous Scamola]

Why do people keep on reffering to Bioshock as steampunk? It isn't! It just has an Art deco style to it.

[small] Surely it being set in the victorian age, the old timey music and the whole steam thing, would suggest it was steampunk? [/small]

Except it wasn't: Bioshock was set in 1960, Rapture was built in 46', most of the music is music from the 30s, the whole city is decorated in Art deco style, which was very popular from the 20s until the beginning of the second world war, the whole bioshock world is based upon the dystopian writings of 20th century authors like Ayn Rand and George Orwell.

There is nothing steampunk in Bioshock.

[small]Steampunk doesn't neccesarily have to be victorian, just oldish and have lots of brass machines and pipes, rust is good too. Goggles also help. Hell if everything that was steampunk was victorian, there would be no steampunk.[/small]

First off, why are you typing all of your posts in small?

Also, Victorianism has loads to do with the steampunk genre, the whole steampunk subculture is based on books by Jules Verne and H.G. Wells.
Saying that steampunk is just a bunch of oldish pipes and goggles is a vast oversimplification.

 

[Flunk]

Fantasy, it's set in a alternate universe, not the future.

 

[Neosage]

Why do people keep on reffering to Bioshock as steampunk? It isn't! It just has an Art deco style to it.

[small] Surely it being set in the victorian age, the old timey music and the whole steam thing, would suggest it was steampunk? [/small]

Except it wasn't: Bioshock was set in 1960, Rapture was built in 46', most of the music is music from the 30s, the whole city is decorated in Art deco style, which was very popular from the 20s until the beginning of the second world war, the whole bioshock world is based upon the dystopian writings of 20th century authors like Ayn Rand and George Orwell.

There is nothing steampunk in Bioshock.

[small]Steampunk doesn't neccesarily have to be victorian, just oldish and have lots of brass machines and pipes, rust is good too. Goggles also help. Hell if everything that was steampunk was victorian, there would be no steampunk.[/small]

First off, why are you typing all of your posts in small?

Also, Victorianism has loads to do with the steampunk genre, the whole steampunk subculture is based on books by Jules Verne and H.G. Wells.
Saying that steampunk is just a bunch of oldish pipes and goggles is a vast oversimplification.

[sup] I didn't say it didn't have anything to do with the victorian age, I meant if everything steampunk was set in the victorian age, then there would be no steampunk.[/sup]

 

[BlindTom]

I always just thought of Steampunk as a complete style. Nothing could be entirely steampunk because people have different interpretations of how steampunk in its entirety works. That however doesn't mean fiction can't contain elements that remind us of steampunk. Be it victorian art styles in a more modern setting(Quite a strong correlation) or just the fact that some technology has advanced ahead of others like in Bioshock (a weaker correlation but still palpable)

It seems best to just think of it intuitively, if something makes us think "hmph, steampunky" then it can be said to be steampunk in some respect. If 'stemapunkicity' of a work of fiction was completely objective then it would harldy be a decent means of artistic expression. All steampunk would be steampunk, but it would also be identical.