Poll: Suicide: Choice or Response?
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It's more of a response but choice factors in. You get just more and more depressed because of something and eventually you say you're going to do it but you have a choice to do it, you have the choice in everything.
Couldn't you also say that throwing the lit match out of the car is a response to him being lazy?Buchholz101 said:
My information here comes from personal experiece. While i have not had someone close to me commit suicide, and I honestly do feel sorry for those whom have had to struggle with this death. I have, however spent most of my life either actively trying to die, or even just longting for it. I will try to explain some of my insights here.
I don't wish to hurt anyone with what I say, and i truely am sorry if that is the case.
I'm also sorry for the constant apologies, which will likely need to be constantly reiterated for those who will get angry by what I say.
And for the wall of text. But this cannot be summarised in only a couple of paragraphs.
You are wrong though. Dying is NEVER the easy way out. LIVING is. Because you are just continuing to let the world ride all over you. Not the best analogy, and i am sorry if it hurts. But like all things, the views of those on the outside are always different to those who are part of it.
Anyway, to the topic: suicide is always a choice. The reasons behind said choice however are not.
Basically there are two reasons: first is that the person truly does not want to live, for whatever reason, and believes that others will be better off without them. Second: the person doesn't want to die, but is trying to manipulate those around them and is using suicide attempts as the means to do it.
The second group is the one which needs psychiatric help, and lots of it. This is the one which can often result from depression. they don't want to die, just want to stop hurting, and can't think of any other way to change the situation around them. This is a lot of people, teenagers especially (or at least the ones I know, and yes, this includes myself. Hopefully though over the years I have garnered a little more maturity regarding this subject).
The first is a lot more complicated. I don't want to live. I never have. Circumstances however have neatly guilted and trapped me in an existance that drive me up the wall (not the right metaphore but it will do for now, until I can think of a more accurate one).
This, however, is not a reactionary response to depression. Those who know me on the outside world would be shocked to read this because I probably seem the least suicidal they know.
Reactionary responses come from the people around us. And are always accompanied by the response "How could you do this to ME", especially from the loved ones. The ones who are supposed to realise that this is about the person who wants to die, NOT THEM!!! ( Again, I speak from personal experience. Just thinking of this makes me very angry and ashamed that the automatic response to this news is always self-serving).
Btt I am not expressing myself properly. I apologise for that. To reiterate my point: Those who truely want to die do NOT EVER take the easy way out. Dying is not easy. The body does everythign it can to stay alive, so anything that kills is often excruciating painful and takes a long time. And take a LOT of preparation. There's the wills and other legal matters, their jobs, how it's going to be done to be taken into consideration. And most importantly the family. People who chose to die don't do it because it's easier for them. People who chose to die often do so because it's easier FOR EVERY ONE ELSE!!!!! They truly believe that in the long one those around them will be better off without them. And it can be true. I know that a lot of suffering would have been avoided if i had been able to off myself any number of the times I've tried. (Like i said, it takes a lot of preparation, and often a lot of experimentation).
All this said: I can understand though why those on the outside think it's the easy way out. The person who dies is never going to have to deal with anything live throws at them anymore. But like a lot of things, unless you experience this personally, as a suicidal individual, one can never truly know what is going on.
Thank you for reading all of this. And again, I'm sorry if I have hurt anyone by saying this. But this needs to be heard as well, so all can see this issue in a new light, and hopefully come away with a little understanding.
I don't wish to hurt anyone with what I say, and i truely am sorry if that is the case.
I'm also sorry for the constant apologies, which will likely need to be constantly reiterated for those who will get angry by what I say.
And for the wall of text. But this cannot be summarised in only a couple of paragraphs.
You are wrong though. Dying is NEVER the easy way out. LIVING is. Because you are just continuing to let the world ride all over you. Not the best analogy, and i am sorry if it hurts. But like all things, the views of those on the outside are always different to those who are part of it.
Anyway, to the topic: suicide is always a choice. The reasons behind said choice however are not.
Basically there are two reasons: first is that the person truly does not want to live, for whatever reason, and believes that others will be better off without them. Second: the person doesn't want to die, but is trying to manipulate those around them and is using suicide attempts as the means to do it.
The second group is the one which needs psychiatric help, and lots of it. This is the one which can often result from depression. they don't want to die, just want to stop hurting, and can't think of any other way to change the situation around them. This is a lot of people, teenagers especially (or at least the ones I know, and yes, this includes myself. Hopefully though over the years I have garnered a little more maturity regarding this subject).
The first is a lot more complicated. I don't want to live. I never have. Circumstances however have neatly guilted and trapped me in an existance that drive me up the wall (not the right metaphore but it will do for now, until I can think of a more accurate one).
This, however, is not a reactionary response to depression. Those who know me on the outside world would be shocked to read this because I probably seem the least suicidal they know.
Reactionary responses come from the people around us. And are always accompanied by the response "How could you do this to ME", especially from the loved ones. The ones who are supposed to realise that this is about the person who wants to die, NOT THEM!!! ( Again, I speak from personal experience. Just thinking of this makes me very angry and ashamed that the automatic response to this news is always self-serving).
Btt I am not expressing myself properly. I apologise for that. To reiterate my point: Those who truely want to die do NOT EVER take the easy way out. Dying is not easy. The body does everythign it can to stay alive, so anything that kills is often excruciating painful and takes a long time. And take a LOT of preparation. There's the wills and other legal matters, their jobs, how it's going to be done to be taken into consideration. And most importantly the family. People who chose to die don't do it because it's easier for them. People who chose to die often do so because it's easier FOR EVERY ONE ELSE!!!!! They truly believe that in the long one those around them will be better off without them. And it can be true. I know that a lot of suffering would have been avoided if i had been able to off myself any number of the times I've tried. (Like i said, it takes a lot of preparation, and often a lot of experimentation).
All this said: I can understand though why those on the outside think it's the easy way out. The person who dies is never going to have to deal with anything live throws at them anymore. But like a lot of things, unless you experience this personally, as a suicidal individual, one can never truly know what is going on.
Thank you for reading all of this. And again, I'm sorry if I have hurt anyone by saying this. But this needs to be heard as well, so all can see this issue in a new light, and hopefully come away with a little understanding.
Isn't the choice a response in itself? If life is bad enough to warrant shuffling yourself off the mortal coil, the the response is suicide. If it has enough redeeming qualities for it to be worth pottering around for a few more years, the response is not-suicide.
I don't know. I think it's a choice. Perhaps there are exceptions when a person becomes so irrational that suicide just happens on the spur of the moment.
I have considered it a few times, and chose not to do so [evidently]. Reasoning still functioned, and it was therefore a choice.
I don't know. I think it's a choice. Perhaps there are exceptions when a person becomes so irrational that suicide just happens on the spur of the moment.
I have considered it a few times, and chose not to do so [evidently]. Reasoning still functioned, and it was therefore a choice.
I read through this thread and see a lot of responses calling suicide weak, or an escape. Suicide is complex, and often feels inevitable to those suffering from depression or other mental illness. That's the thing, though, it's a disorder. Not because we disapprove of it, but because a mind needs to be in a dark and messed up place to feel like it wants out. Or, more accurately, like it has no other option than to kill itself.
That's why suicide is so horrible, and why it seems so odd to those of us with a rational mind; It takes a mind so besieged that they think there is no way but to quite literally bite the bullet. It's a spiral, a downwards trek into depression and death that takes a perfect storm of influences and mental instability (It can be either the cause or the result of the depression).
The best example is this; There is a weight on your back, a boulder so great it crushes the life out of you. You know you need to hold up the burden, you know that by being crushed you will upset others and the thought of these consequences consumes you. But, despite this, at some point it's too much to shoulder. One day, there is no more escape.
To the following;
That's why suicide is so horrible, and why it seems so odd to those of us with a rational mind; It takes a mind so besieged that they think there is no way but to quite literally bite the bullet. It's a spiral, a downwards trek into depression and death that takes a perfect storm of influences and mental instability (It can be either the cause or the result of the depression).
The best example is this; There is a weight on your back, a boulder so great it crushes the life out of you. You know you need to hold up the burden, you know that by being crushed you will upset others and the thought of these consequences consumes you. But, despite this, at some point it's too much to shoulder. One day, there is no more escape.
To the following;
aquaman839 said:
NorthernTrooper said:
Agayek said:
No.GreatTeacherCAW said:
This forum is not addressing accidental death either by your own hand or someone else, we're strictly speaking about taking your own life purposely.Jamboxdotcom said:
I appreciate you being able to describe your experiences, they were very helpful.mythlover20 said:
And thank you, Buchholz101, for being so curteous. Reading back through these posts, I have to say it seems as if you are the only one taking this post in the manner it was intented. I am glad that this was able to help someone.Buchholz101 said:
To the rest of you: I did not post this to garner any form of sympathy. To me you are nothing. That said, your blatant disregard for the well-being of people such as myself disgusts me. You are belittling, degrading, and demonising them, without even trying to understand them. and yes, i can say that with a great deal of confidence, because the hate screaming of the screen through your posts reveals a level of ignorance that to those who see it is, or should be, utterly enraging. Have any of you actually tried talking to them without judging them? Do any of you even still view them as human? Or because they don't want to live in a world populated by such people, have they become something less than human to you?
Yes, it is going to suck for those left behind! There is no doubt about that! But to say unequivocably that life isn't that bad really just reveals a lack of imagination. There are plenty of situations where life really is that bad. Hell, here's one right off the top of my head: uncurably terminable wasting disease that renders the victim in perpetual agony and the family members with not only the pain of having to care for them, but of having to watch their loved one die in physical pain, over a great length of time. Not weeks either. I'm talking YEARS here. Suicide in this case is more than acceptable. It can also be the right thing to do. Not just for the patient, but for the loved ones too. At least then they wouldn't have to watch their family member waste away before their eyes. And honestly, anyone who would like to see someone they love die such a way doesn't even deserve to be called a human being!
Next to no suicide is like this of course. But such a blanket statement is malicious and paints the person/people making the statement in an unfairly unkind light that no one really needs. there is enough unnecessary hate in the world. why heap more onto a situation that needs only compassion?
Basically, all i'm asking is to show a little consideration when forming these opinions. Talk to these people! Try to see things from their perspective! And maybe help bring a little light to people who do need it!
I'm not saying you can't have your opinion. By all means, have it! But try doing what I have done recently, and read a little book called "Consolations of Philosophy". In this book is a chapter of Socratic philosophy. The first few chapters centers on opinions and so called "common sense" and how most people accept what society is telling them without thinking it through logically, examining the evidence, disceting the logic of the argument put forth, or coming up with alternate viewpoints, or even just trying to see the other person's point of view, and how they in turn end up sprouting nonsence that they don't understand themselves. It also gives a guideline on how to change such thinking patterns, if the reader discovers that this corresponds with their own personal philosophies. That and this is just a really well written book and not at all boring like i thought it would be when i pick it up. Half the time i keep forgetting that it is basically a textbook because it is just so damnably GOOD!
Oh, and I'm not trying to start a flame war here. I apologise if I have led you to think so, but I honestly do want to know! I can't fully understand your conflicting point of view without asking such questions, and all opinions do deserve to be understood. As you could probably guess, I do try to follow Socrates advice when forming my own opinions. He was a smart bloke. People should listen to him more. Argument like this would be a little less frequent, more intelligent, and a lot more logical.
Sorry for the second wall of text. I'll try to be more concise in future.
Every action voluntarily undertaken by someone of sound mind and full mental maturity is a choice.
There are of of course copious explanations for why a choice is made, but those never amount to excuses which magically exonerates you from responsibility for your actions (unless it was physically impossible to act otherwise, or you were mentally impaired).
So inherently a choice, at least for sane adults. Not a very constructive one in the vast majority of situations, but in exceedingly rare instances, such as if you're terminally ill and can look forward only to a painful terminal stage, it can of course be a rational one.
There are of of course copious explanations for why a choice is made, but those never amount to excuses which magically exonerates you from responsibility for your actions (unless it was physically impossible to act otherwise, or you were mentally impaired).
So inherently a choice, at least for sane adults. Not a very constructive one in the vast majority of situations, but in exceedingly rare instances, such as if you're terminally ill and can look forward only to a painful terminal stage, it can of course be a rational one.
Yeah, it really does, but life goes on.dante brevity said:
I always found talking about it quite easy, although most people look at me like I'm a death waiting to happen.
Speaking from personal experience, it is indeed a choice. I made the choice attempt it a few times (really wish I could go back in time and beat the shit out of myself for it) and nothing actually MADE me. Depression was a factor that helped with it, but it didn't MAKE me attempt it.
When it comes to suicide, you ALWAYS have a choice no matter what. Having climbed up from that pit, I don't like it when people do it, but I'm not going to insult them for it. They're taking a plunge into the unknown. They don't know what truly awaits the when their heart stops, but to them, it's better than the cards life dealt them.
It's their life, their choice. I have no right to tell them what to do with it nor can I judge them for it.
When it comes to suicide, you ALWAYS have a choice no matter what. Having climbed up from that pit, I don't like it when people do it, but I'm not going to insult them for it. They're taking a plunge into the unknown. They don't know what truly awaits the when their heart stops, but to them, it's better than the cards life dealt them.
It's their life, their choice. I have no right to tell them what to do with it nor can I judge them for it.
Wait, what? If I understand correctly, saying it's a response would mean there is no other logical response to depression than suicide. In which case, screw that. I've never heard anything more full of it. Well I have, just not too recently.
There are many different ways to deal with depression. Suicide is one of them (the wrong one), but not the only one. It's as simple as that.
There are many different ways to deal with depression. Suicide is one of them (the wrong one), but not the only one. It's as simple as that.