Poll: The best at medieval fantasy lore

[blaize2010]

[snip]

And you seriously think any of that makes TES's setting any less generic?

"No, look! Our bow-using, forest-dwelling, pointy-eared elves are cannibals!"
"No, look! Our dwarves are sometimes referred to as "Dwemar" and they're all dead!"
"No, look! Our zombies wear viking hats!"

If it looks like a Tolkien rip-off, sounds like a Tolkien rip-off and smells like a Tolkien rip-off...

If it wasn't yet another middle-earth imitation, there wouldn't be a single damn elf in sight, cannibal or otherwise.

I'd like to see something completely different, not the same old setting in a different hat.

Ahem. Don't talk about something you don't know about, it makes you seem silly. And it's Dwemer. They're not dwarves, they're elves. Who aren't even short. Gee, Tech elves, those are just soooooo common. Draugr, zombies that survive out of sheer willpower and reverence for dragons? lame, I've seen it before in a Tolkien book that the person currently writing from my perspective has never read. What's this, the elves here are doing something they would not normally do? Too fucking bad, they still have pointy ears and I hate them because even though elves are generally accepted as having pointy ears ***** moan whine I wish everything were different but am unwilling to actually do something because I am a ball of complaints and I just won't look cool if I'm not disagreeing with everyone and being cynical, because everyone else is so stupid and mainstream and I hate everything and that makes me awesome.

 

[Soviet Heavy]

Jesus, lay off Zhukov people. (Wait, Zhukov is a real word? No spellcheck.) Just because someone hasn't committed time to TES Lore does not make his points any less valid. Telling him he can't talk because he doesn't know what he's talking about strikes me as incredibly arrogant and patronizing.

Let him have his opinion, and stop bitching when yours doesn't match his.

 

[Element Zero]

Though I'm not a huge fan of Blizzards games of late, they have a scary amount of history and lore written about them. Maybe it comes from all the money they have to pay legions of writers, I dunno...

 

[ImperialSunlight]

From Software beats all those three into the ground and makes a giant "THEY DIED"-death screen appear above them when it comes to making stuff feel medieval.

THIS.

Not only that but in Dark Souls, they took from a lot of mythology that isn't often used in medieval-style fantasy-Greek and Norse, mostly. Throw in the complex relations between the gods, the tragic fate of the daughters of Izalith, the demons, stuff about the Furtive Pygmy, everlasting dragons, not-so-everlasting dragons, the relationship between the gods and humans, and "Dark", whatever that is and you get a pretty awesome backstory.

 

[Zhukov]

[TES, pointy ears, waaaah, etc...]

Ahem. Don't talk about something you don't know about, it makes you seem silly. And it's Dwemer. They're not dwarves, they're elves. Who aren't even short. Gee, Tech elves, those are just soooooo common. Draugr, zombies that survive out of sheer willpower and reverence for dragons? lame, I've seen it before in a Tolkien book that the person currently writing from my perspective has never read. What's this, the elves here are doing something they would not normally do? Too fucking bad, they still have pointy ears and I hate them because even though elves are generally accepted as having pointy ears ***** moan whine I wish everything were different but am unwilling to actually do something because I am a ball of complaints and I just won't look cool if I'm not disagreeing with everyone and being cynical, because everyone else is so stupid and mainstream and I hate everything and that makes me awesome.

Oh look, it's the old "you're just hating on it because you think it makes you cool" argument. Gee, never had that one thrown at me before.

I could just as readily say you're defending it out of a desire to belong and conform. It would be just as presumptuous, just as stupid and (presumably) just as wrong.

And no, taking a worn out concept and sticking a new hat on it is not original nor particularly clever. Hey, they're orcs but they have gunpowder and use matchlock weapons. There's mages and wizard, right, but they shave their heads instead of wearing pointy hats! Ohh ohh, and elves with wings! Wow, look at me go. Clearly I'm gonna be the next big thing in derivative fantasy.

Oh, and while I'm here, if the Dwemer aren't dwarves why do people in the game keep referring to them as such? And why are all their items called "Dwarven Sword" and "Dwarven Boots" and so on? If they aren't even short, why would they be called dwarves since "dwarf" literally means an abnormally short person?

 

[DustyDrB]

[TES, pointy ears, waaaah, etc...]

Ahem. Don't talk about something you don't know about, it makes you seem silly. And it's Dwemer. They're not dwarves, they're elves. Who aren't even short. Gee, Tech elves, those are just soooooo common. Draugr, zombies that survive out of sheer willpower and reverence for dragons? lame, I've seen it before in a Tolkien book that the person currently writing from my perspective has never read. What's this, the elves here are doing something they would not normally do? Too fucking bad, they still have pointy ears and I hate them because even though elves are generally accepted as having pointy ears ***** moan whine I wish everything were different but am unwilling to actually do something because I am a ball of complaints and I just won't look cool if I'm not disagreeing with everyone and being cynical, because everyone else is so stupid and mainstream and I hate everything and that makes me awesome.

Oh look, it's the old "you're just hating on it because you think it makes you cool" argument. Gee, never had that one thrown at me before.

I could just as readily say you're defending it out of a desire to belong and conform. It would be just as presumptuous, just as stupid and (presumably) just as wrong.

And no, taking a worn out concept and sticking a new hat on it is not original nor particularly clever. Hey, they're orcs but they have gunpowder and use matchlock weapons. There's mages and wizard, right, but they shave their heads instead of wearing pointy hats! Ohh ohh, and elves with wings! Wow, look at me go. Clearly I'm gonna be the next big thing in derivative fantasy.

Oh, and while I'm here, if the Dwemer aren't dwarves why do people in the game keep referring to them as such? And why are all their items called "Dwarven Sword" and "Dwarven Boots" and so on? If they aren't even short, why would they be called dwarves since "dwarf" literally means an abnormally short person?

I read on a the Elder Scrolls wiki that they were called Dwarves because they were neighbored by giants. Or something like that.

But I get your point overall. Fantasy seems to have long lost the will to be fantastical. The way people defend the same old same old being used over and over, I think they've forgotten the feeling of being presented with something totally new. That was a big success of the first Mass Effect, where I was basically like, "Turians? You guys look badass! So what are you all about? Really?? Oh, so we're kind of enemies, then".

You hear the name "Dwarf" or see an elf, and you don't feel get those feelings. Instead, you probably decide you know them well enough already.

 

[Onoto]

Bioware, but for Neverwinter Nights.

 

[ACman]

Which of the "big B" developers would you say conveys the best world of giant monsters, castles, creepy caves, spawns and final bosses the best? And why?

Dragon Age has shit lore (I will rant about this if provoked.)

I'd like to hear your take, if you've got the time.

I've always disliked stories where the protagonist "is the only one to save the world/universe/mankind" or "the chosen one". It's not a relatable motivation.

Also why are the darkspawn attacking? "Because it's what they do" is a lazy answer.

Thaedas feels tiny (and white!). It's like the blight is happening in France and in DA2 you escape to Switzerland. Are they attacking other countries on this world? Do all the countries on this world have the same attitude to magic? Are some of them Asian? Where are the black guys?

Monotheism is boring. If you're going to have gods have an angry capricious pantheon not a single creator. It's always fun to have several gods constantly fighting and fucking mortals and each other. It can provide a slightly better motivation for your "bad guys that are attacking just because".

 

[Thaliur]

How did Bethesda not make it's own universe? Tamriel is just as realized and original a setting as Azeroth is.

Hey, there's no need to insult Tamriel, OK?

 

[endtherapture]

Which of the "big B" developers would you say conveys the best world of giant monsters, castles, creepy caves, spawns and final bosses the best? And why?

Dragon Age has shit lore (I will rant about this if provoked.)

I'd like to hear your take, if you've got the time.

I've always disliked stories where the protagonist "is the only one to save the world/universe/mankind" or "the chosen one". It's not a relatable motivation.

Also why are the darkspawn attacking? "Because it's what they do" is a lazy answer.

Thaedas feels tiny (and white!). It's like the blight is happening in France and in DA2 you escape to Switzerland. Are they attacking other countries on this world? Do all the countries on this world have the same attitude to magic? Are some of them Asian? Where are the black guys?

Monotheism is boring. If you're going to have gods have an angry capricious pantheon not a single creator. It's always fun to have several gods constantly fighting and fucking mortals and each other. It can provide a slightly better motivation for your "bad guys that are attacking just because".

Just a quick note: how do you know the Chantry is right? What if the elvish multi-deities exist instead? One of the reasons I love the lore in Dragon Age so much is that we only know as much as the civilizations in the game do about things like God, magic and the darkspawn: not much. I'm sure some of it will be answered in the coming game, but the mystery of it I find highly relateable.

Very much agree on the 'whiteness", though. There don't seem to be any consistently differing races outside your typical elves, dwarfs, and humans.

The Darkspawn are attacking because the Magisters of the Tervinter Imperium tried to usurp god by physically going into the Fade and taking control of Heaven. They were cast out and turned into the Darkspawn as punishment for their sin. For some reason there are Dragons underneath the world who the Tervinter worshipped. They are corrupted by the Darkspawn and lead a giant apocalypse until they can be defeated. So the Darkspawn are a physical punishment for the temptation of men to overthrow god.

I personally think the origins of the Darkspawn and The First Blight seems like a much more interesting time than the Dragon Age itself.

Dragon Age has a really dark world even if on the surface it's pretty generic. If Obsidian made a Dragon Age game it has the potential to have an amazing storyline. Everything is pretty grey - the Chantry, the Grey Wardens, the Mages etc. and I hope we get more exploration of this world because it has so much potential (sadly squandered by DA2)