Poll: The clothes professional women wear on TV shows. Suitable for video games?

[Darth Rosenberg]

In this fictional universe exists a substance that is capable of lowering or increasing the mass of objects around it. Said substance can reduce the mass or a starship (and/or the surrounding space, I forget) to propel said starship beyond the speed of light. And you're questioning their capability to produce effective multi-purpose armour?

Suspension of disbelief is a funny thing, isn't it?.

Heh, yeah, that's a very fair point. And yet... : mass effect fields are wacky hi-concept Because Reasons sci-fi, so I can't really challenge them. But what a character wears in different situations is more relatably noteworthy.

...okay, I'll stop nitpicking now.

 

[Ikasury]

Well...

I hope to never see them in my games, because sci-fi and fantasy are obviously much superior to contemporary settings and nobody wears jeans there.

That said I do prefer outfits to be consistent, if most women are wearing what amounts to a fetish outfit then most men better be wearing black leather man-thongs. Nothing is sillier than seeing what's supposed to be a uniformed force with half it's members mysteriously missing around two-thirds of their outfits.

yes... gods yes :3

OT: i don't see a problem with those clothes (<3 bones ) and in my video games? shock!! a woman wearing something sensible!! and comfy!! where do i sign

ps: i loved FemShep's casual clothes... it was so random, but i suppose when you're stuck in a tight-as-all-hell space suit all the time, breezy baggy pants and loose shirt are a must to remind you you're off duty XD

FemShep: "Suspenders? pfft... like i'll use them... just pull 'em off and let them hang... yea... fashion statement... whatever..."

 

[V4Viewtiful]

Well, I don't like Weave, blush or blond on Black women so seeing that in a game would be very annoying for me. I only say that as a whole image thing I don't think it's done right often.

But i'm a dude, what do I know?

 

[white_wolf]

Normal clothing is great I think the problem is the devs hit the streets or browse a shopping catalog and their eyes are attracted to the 16 year old in the high skirts and low shirts they cancel out all other clothing types so to them they see that and go, " Every girl dresses like this and wants to dress like this right?" Then they can't get why people are upset.

The rule of thumb for them just to make it very easy for them would be dress her for her job (and if thats not clear enough) dress her like the men she's in company with so if they're full plate metal armor guess what? She gets full plate metal armor covering everything just like them (or if they expose their arms she can too). If you want to dress her in S&M wear guess what? You dress the men in S&M wear all of them on your team/side yes even your male hero if she's not the hero.

But this also extends to our enemies if your going to have the evil monster girl be sexy,naked, and hot guess what the male monsters get? Sexy naked and hot cuz we ladies would prefer that you know equal treatment (if we get naked male monsters right now the balk are fugly even the quest giving ones won't find a quest giving fem monster like that as it stands I can recount one) dress them for their jobs or ill dress the cast for their jobs its very simple.

If you have multiple species or cast systems and go ok our heroes all get full plate armor, we want a sexy mage girl now you need to stop here and go but we'll also have sexy half naked male mages so its not just the girls in sexy inverse armor/robes here because as the majority of games stand with inverse armor girls or wear less then the guys on my crew to prove I'm a girl its immersion breaking, unoriginal,annoying, ill-logical, impractical, and that's just to say the least about it.

Heck if its a fantasy game you could even compromise and say when the player goes into shops to buy more armors you have the option right here to buy sexy armors for the hero and his/her crew both for the men and the women but you start the game present each character, to the player, and recruit them in their regular practical ready to do their jobs and not die while doing it armor/clothing/ect if you get to buy armor and you're going to make several sets for each character or just the hero then do 4 sexy (that don't have disproportionate advantages then the normal stuff) and 4 awesome practical outfits (that are equal in stats to the sexy stuff so again not inflating the numbers) for both genders you intend to make the outfits for now players have the choice.

Marketing also needs to change if they really are going to give the ladies of your side,team, and fem hero get clothing that works, is fully protective, and will save her life (ie normal clothing) then they can't go showing her in marketing in the shower, or the one shot they did in game of her in her panties, or because we have optional sexy clothing thats what she's wearing for the promo trailer doing cool things because again you offend, alienate, show them how ridiculous that move just became in that attire, and turn off women who would've bought the game or now aren't motivated to research the better aspects and how awesome your game is and shelved it for something that took a respectful marketing approach because that cliche has worn out its welcome your money just went say bye! You won't however lose the girls who like to dress her characters in sexy wear by showing her the fem cast in normal clothing doing cool things because they'll see how awesome the game looks, how awesome a move that character just pulled and how badass she looked while doing it, and then she gets the added bonus of hey I can buy sexy wear for my group! You can market games to both sexes at the same time they did it back in the 80's men and women both played you can do so again by picking shots, dress, and information provided to the player that engages both men and women and involve fem gamers in both your marketing development and marketing feedback.

 

[Someone Depressing]

Oh, you mean, like, normal clothes? Like a skirt and a t-shirt? Or jeans and a sweater? Clothes people would actually wear?

Surely you jest.

Honestly, character designs that actually make sense are always best. Oddly enough, Shin Megami Tensei follows this exactly, when you don't expect it to. A fantasy JRPG about people fighting demons? You'd think there's be bare manchests and 2-inch skirts ahoy (and although there are those, it's usually for comedic effect) but nope. Just people... wearing clothes. And changing clothes.

...And, uh... no, really.

I don't really know if the titty-windows and buttcheeks-hanging out of skirt clothing is going to ever really die out (it's been around from the SNES region, what with improved potential for graphics and aesthetic, ect) and really, would it matter? People are going to find a way to get their improbably "sleek" clothing in the game one way or another.

 

[Uhura]

To be honest that's actually more professional than what a lot of the women I've worked with think professional clothes look like.

Yeah, the outfits are definitely TV-professional (and do not reflect reality in that sense) but I think they are quite good examples of outfits creators give female characters when they want to appeal to female audiences.

The "police drama" look is actually quite distinct. In reality, you almost never see professional women in leather, suede or some synthetic variant thereof, for example. It's quite an extreme look for work, but in police drama language it signifies that a character means business and is ready to get stuck in with the boys. In that regard, it's kind of a cliché in itself.

As others have said though, it beats boob window. It beats boob window hands down!

The look is definitely a cliché (it's insane how many leather coats these characters own!) but as a design approach I think it's more preferable (when it fits the story) than the 'sexxay-lady' approach. But yeah, the look certainly doesn't fit in all narratives.

Well I imagine there probably is a minority who are resistant to such character designs entirely.
But I think most people who say such things are probably just being a bit reactionary and taking things to the worst possible conclusion, there's a lot of reasons why such miscommunications happen.
The other side has a tendency to pick on and tear into individual examples as if they are the problem, rather than making them part of the larger discussion.
People think that more of one thing (in this case modest dress) means less of another (in this case sexy dress), which it doesn't.

I definitely agree that these discussions tend to be really polarizing, which leads to people taking quite extreme stances on the issue. I think one of the reasons why it's sometimes so frustrating to read these threads is that I can tell there is common ground between the extremes but the current "climate" on the forums just makes it really difficult to have any kind of moderate discussion about the topic.

That's why it's about more choice. It's not about needing more of this and less of that, the same amount of the other thing and whatever.
It's about having more of everything, some probably to a higher degree than others.

Yeah, I personally would not have problem if more games provided tools for the player to modify how their PC looks.

 

[ForumSafari]

Yeah, the outfits are definitely TV-professional (and do not reflect reality in that sense) but I think they are quite good examples of outfits creators give female characters when they want to appeal to female audiences.

I think that's part of the problem; this is a look that is stylised to show a hyper competent and stern persona, essentially it's a female power fantasy. However, when female characters are discussed the emphasis tends to be on asking for 'realistic female characters'. This is confusing because frankly a lot of characters like, say, Tifa from FF7 are reasonably realistically dressed. I know people that dress like that in everyday wear...well except the dungarees but you know.

Basically the tendency to conflate a strong character and a realistic character is probably causing what is perceived as hypocrisy.

 

[Uhura]

I think that's part of the problem; this is a look that is stylised to show a hyper competent and stern persona, essentially it's a female power fantasy. However, when female characters are discussed the emphasis tends to be on asking for 'realistic female characters'. This is confusing because frankly a lot of characters like, say, Tifa from FF7 are reasonably realistically dressed. I know people that dress like that in everyday wear...well except the dungarees but you know.

Basically the tendency to conflate a strong character and a realistic character is probably causing what is perceived as hypocrisy.

Hmm, where I live, people rarely dress like Tifa and if they do it's usually related to a very specific context (like going to a specific type of party etc.). The most common attires among young adults actually approximate the TV-professional looks I posted, the main difference being that IRL people often aren't as well put together as on TV.

I think that's why the term 'realistic' might be a bit confusing. I mean, to me those examples are realistic but a bit more 'chic' than normal. For a person who lives near a beach in Brazil/goes clubbing a lot in the UK etc., realistic can mean something completely different.

So long story short, I guess we agree that the term 'realistic' isn't descriptive enough for these discussions. (I kinda wish that people would just post examples of outfits when they start to talk about this kind of stuff).

 

[ForumSafari]

Hmm, where I live, people rarely dress like Tifa and if they do it's usually related to a very specific context (like going to a specific type of party etc.). The most common attires among young adults actually approximate the TV-professional looks I posted, the main difference being that IRL people often aren't as well put together as on TV.

Where I am (Sheffield, UK) the most popular look is a way too low camisole and leggings or tight trousers. In the summer the trousers become shorts. The other popular look is the incredibly revealing short dress.

So long story short, I guess we agree that the term 'realistic' isn't descriptive enough for these discussions.

Not really no, obvious examples like Ivy aside it's pretty hard to find clothes that are unrealistic under any circumstance.

 

[mecegirl]

Where I am (Sheffield, UK) the most popular look is a way too low camisole and leggings or tight trousers. In the summer the trousers become shorts. The other popular look is the incredibly revealing short dress.

Ok...I just don't see how that is true. Are you talking about what women wear in general? Or what the women who catch your attention wear? Are you talking about what you've seen teenagers wear on the weekend? Because if teens wear that during the week then the school dress codes are pretty lax where you live. And I can't imagine the average 25-40 year old woman wearing that during the weekday. Most places of business would not allow it. And what about women who are even older than that?

 

[ForumSafari]

Ok...I just don't see how that is true. Are you talking about what women wear in general? Or what the women who catch your attention wear? Are you talking about what you've seen teenagers wear on the weekend? Because if teens wear that during the week then the school dress codes are pretty lax where you live. And I can't imagine the average 25-40 year old woman wearing that during the weekday. Most places of business would not allow it. And what about women who are even older than that?

In general. No it is not a flattering look for the older ones. Yes I am including the women of all ages I work with. Yes I am also including the bulk of women I interact with in my average day. Yes most places of business will actually allow it because most places of business don't have a uniform. It also helps that Sheffield is home to two universities.

You may find it hard to believe but there we go.

 

[Doclector]

For a moment there, I was going to say no. I thought you meant suits, and those are not really suitable for anyone doing anything other than sitting at a damn desk.

But then I looked at the pictures and realised you meant normal clothes. So of course.

It's just a question of whether the videogame companies who assume that everyone is as stupid as they are will. And unfortunately, I think not. As others have joked, they still consider too big a "risk" to have a female character who isn't dressed like they're desperate to attract attention at a nightclub.