Poll: The death of "Clever" comedy.

[vallorn]

So I've been thinking of something for a while, the death of clever wit.

Not jokes, not comedy, clever wit.

That is to say, jokes that are more than "This thing happened!" or slapstick, or one liners. I mean jokes that are actually clever, that have pacing behind them and epth and interaction. Sometimes, clever wit can even make you think (Hi Pythons).

Some of the best humour from media of the past is this clever wit, Monty Python is the usual example I turn to since they were calpable of making sketches about everything from a cheese shop to philosophy, to the behaviour of government departments. However for this case I will compare two trailers, Ghostbusters, and Snoozebusters (AKA, Ghostbusters(2016)

Finished watching them? Good. The first movie's trailer doesn't really present itself as a comedy, and that's the essence of a good comedy, one that doesn't get let the jokes get in the way of the story. The second trailer just seems to be... trying too hard? It has more jokes, but it's jokes are almost all either physical abuse, slapstick, or one liners.

And yet, the jokes that exist in the first trailer hit better, they have more interaction between the characters, and there's a better deadpan delivery. There's also a lack of "It got everywhere, every crack" that the latter trailer had, the movie itself had "He slimed me" which was all that needed to be said, it just encapsulated it without dragging the joke on. Gross out humor like the latter trailed employs in that regard is lowbrow in extremis and brings nothing to people except for maybe a chuckle. The other one makes you think before you get it and then it's funnier because you got the subtext.

In essence, comedy movies have lost their ability to have subtext in their jokes, they aim for lowbrow humour that adds nothing to people's enjoyment and because of this they have become extremely forgettable.

In essence, the clever wit that I mourn is the kind that advances the story or adds tot he movie or media as a whole instead of just existing in a vacuum as many jokes in modern comedy seem to do. Do you agree with my assessment of the death of cleverness in humour? Or not? Either way I would enjoy hearing what others think on the matter.

Now if you will excuse me, I'm going to go watch the Perfect Comedy TV series again, the original TV screening of The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy. Followed by... Probably Monty Python's Life of Brian because it has such wonderfully paced humour.

 

[Kae]

Have they though?

As far as I can remember good, clever comedy has always been few and far between, I think it just seems that way because we remember the really good stuff and forget about the mediocre and dumb stuff, but most comedy movies from any era are downright awful, and let's not talk about bad comedy TV shows.

So no I disagree, and in a way we're better off than ever thanks to the advent of the Internet, a lot of good clever comedy happens there so I can actually get it in small doses every now and then instead of waiting for another Groundhog Day or something, besides mileage may vary, I really liked a movie called God Bless America which I thought had very good, clever sense of humour and I haven't ever seen anybody talk about it.

In any case good clever comedy has always been few and far between and has remained that way, and that's probably not going to change.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

The way I see it, comedy has been living a new golden age for some time now. Just not in movies. Internet humor, with the likes of Collegehumor, Explosm, Amazingsuperpowers, Zero Punctuation and so on, give the creator a more confined, shorter, and more easily digestible form of expression. When only 4 minutes of jokes are required instead of 104, you don't have to worry so much about context, whether something fits in a narrative, character consistency or other such things. Take this skit from Collegehumor for example:


Taken as a solitary skit, IMO it's blisteringly hilarious. But when I start to think about how I would fit that scene in a greater narrative, I'm stumped. Being funny is hard, and being funny while also telling a coherent story is even harder. Were I a comedy writer, and given the option between getting the same consistent paycheck writing 10 comedy skits, or writing 1 movie, I'd probably pick the former. That way you can focus more on individual jokes and whether they work by themselves, as opposed to working together.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Theres a place for lowbrow humour too, and its not really like it didnt exist back in the day. First thing that springs to mind in defense is Dracula Dead and Loving It.


All sorts of great Leslie Nielsen parody movies make no attempt to hide their ridiculousness.

edit: Though re-reading it looks like I may have missed the point. Yeah maybe dry Comedies like that have gotten less popular.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Errm, the main joke in the original trailer was a straight up dick joke. "Clever" isn't the word I would use. That or "is that a trick question?", which, yeah, not exactly high brow.

Mainly, I think the original trailer, back in the day, benefited from there not being a widely acclaimed comedy from 32 years ago overshadowing it's major themes.

Plus, the obvious point where we simply advertise movies differently these days.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Sigh! You just aren't looking hard enough. There are still good comedies to be found, but they are not particularly something you can show in a trailer, nor are they advertised to the low-brow masses as much. Marketing comedy is a cringeworthy business full of cuntworthy attempts. Coen Brothers films are generally reliable for more interesting humour. Simon Pegg films are mostly reliable too. Try Infinite Monkey cage podcast. The humour isn't "dead" ...it's just the entertainment pool is oversaturated with low-brow comedy because, like low-brow horrors, require far less effort and brain cells, so every asshole creator in love with themselves and their dick jokes will not stop churning out shite until a harsh 48 hour period of deep introsepction. Look further, broaden horizons to avoid more rose-tinting of the past.

 

[Areloch]

I think @Kaleion and @bartholen nailed it.

There's probably a shift in how good, clever wit comedy is presented(eschewing full movies for much more pointed, concentrated shorts), and the internet definitely gives unfunny people a much wider reach than before, but I don't believe that good, clever wit is dying, at all.

If anything, it's doing better than ever, just in a slightly adjusted form.

 

[Chaos Isaac]

It's more then just bad jokes, it's bad camera and visual usage.

A moving camera and help a joke or at least humor as much as a funny line or funny visuals. But a lot of directors just don't know the fuck they're doing apparently. But maybe this is just me realizing this, as much as realizing how bad action directors have become, and that's beyond just the stupid shaky cam thing.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

To be fair, you are discounting almost all comedies ever, ever. Is Melissa McCarthy as good as Groucho Marx(who I hold as the wittiest, funniest man ever)? No, but then again neither was Will Ferrell or Chevy Chase. Nor was Monty Python, because we always forget 95% of all their skits. Fuck it, Groucho Marx wasn't Groucho Marx. We remember the...what, 50 good jokes? Out of nearly 60 years of comedy? I don't even know a single bit of his from the 20s Vaudeville days.

Remember for every GhostBuster there were three My Science Projects [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089652/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1] and five Over-Sexed Rugsuckers from Mars [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0200940/].

Just look at MST3K. Hobgoblins [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089280/], The Wild World of Batwoman [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0061191/], Samson Vs the Vampire Woman [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055408/]. That's what comedies were like back then. There wasn't ever a Golden Age of Comedy, where every joke landed and everyone knew Plato, Socrates and Vonnegut.

There's only ever been the cream of the crop, and the 99% garbage we throw away.

 

[Cold Shiny]

LEGO.



MOVIE.



Seriously, the movie was incredibly well designed, had a crazy out of nowhere twist at the end AND it managed to be funny throughout its running time. In recent times, I can't remember a movie surpassing my expectations so much. Sure, I expected it to be funny, but I never would have guessed how smart it was going to be.

 

[CaitSeith]

I think the Nostalgia Critic made a video about the subject. He concluded that the comedy has moved into the Internet.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Nah man it's still there, but sadly mostly pushed from main-stream movies. The last one I saw was probably Hail, Cesar! and The Lobster before that. Not really big-budget, high-profile flicks (though Hail, Cesar! is a Coen Brothers film) but definitely clever comedy. The Lego Movie had clever bits as well.

Also, let's be honest about Ghostbusters. It'd be flat in terms of comedy if it weren't for Bill Murray's improvisation.

All sorts of great Leslie Nielsen parody movies make no attempt to hide their ridiculousness.

80's Cheese is best cheese. And at least it's clever cheese, with (visual) puns so cringe-worthy you can't help to applaud. Remember the "little hoarse" joke from Top Secret!, a goddamn multi-layered pun, fucking brilliant.

Same goes for most of Mel Brooks' work. Incredibly ridiculous and often low-brow, but still oh-so clever.

 

[Fox12]

So I've been thinking of something for a while, the death of clever wit.

Not jokes, not comedy, clever wit.

That is to say, jokes that are more than "This thing happened!" or slapstick, or one liners. I mean jokes that are actually clever, that have pacing behind them and epth and interaction. Sometimes, clever wit can even make you think (Hi Pythons).

Some of the best humour from media of the past is this clever wit, Monty Python is the usual example I turn to since they were calpable of making sketches about everything from a cheese shop to philosophy, to the behaviour of government departments. However for this case I will compare two trailers, Ghostbusters, and Snoozebusters (AKA, Ghostbusters(2016)

Finished watching them? Good. The first movie's trailer doesn't really present itself as a comedy, and that's the essence of a good comedy, one that doesn't get let the jokes get in the way of the story. The second trailer just seems to be... trying too hard? It has more jokes, but it's jokes are almost all either physical abuse, slapstick, or one liners.

And yet, the jokes that exist in the first trailer hit better, they have more interaction between the characters, and there's a better deadpan delivery. There's also a lack of "It got everywhere, every crack" that the latter trailer had, the movie itself had "He slimed me" which was all that needed to be said, it just encapsulated it without dragging the joke on. Gross out humor like the latter trailed employs in that regard is lowbrow in extremis and brings nothing to people except for maybe a chuckle. The other one makes you think before you get it and then it's funnier because you got the subtext.

In essence, comedy movies have lost their ability to have subtext in their jokes, they aim for lowbrow humour that adds nothing to people's enjoyment and because of this they have become extremely forgettable.

In essence, the clever wit that I mourn is the kind that advances the story or adds tot he movie or media as a whole instead of just existing in a vacuum as many jokes in modern comedy seem to do. Do you agree with my assessment of the death of cleverness in humour? Or not? Either way I would enjoy hearing what others think on the matter.

Now if you will excuse me, I'm going to go watch the Perfect Comedy TV series again, the original TV screening of The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy. Followed by... Probably Monty Python's Life of Brian because it has such wonderfully paced humour.

Try Rick and Morty, maybe? The entire show is basically a comedic take on existential philosophy. Ill make you laugh, cry, and think all at the same time. In fact, if you like Life of Bryan, or the Galaxy Song, this will probably be right up your alley.

Of course, you can always go back to the boondocks. That show always had something special to it. Gravity Falls had some really clever humor to it. There's stuff out there. They're just all cartoons, apparently.

Edit: oh yeah, I'll second Kaitseith's recommendation for the Lego Movie. Not only was it clever and funny, it actually managed to deconstruct Hollywood and storytelling conventions. One of the best comedies in recent memory.

 

[FalloutJack]

I would say no. Further, I would say that you missed the irony to put a flat "No" in your options after all of your witty positives in the poll.

 

[F-I-D-O]

Lego Movie
The Martian
Rick and Morty
Archer
Ant-Man
John Dies at the End

There's plenty of options for longer tale or "cleverer" comedy around, though I'd argue a good one-liner requires just as much wit as a subversive joke.
The issue is that we only remember the standout samples from the past. It's really easy to cheery pick when you have decades to choose from. No one brings up "bad comedy #112" from 1980. I think the time of the comedic star, of a Bill Murray-esque level, may have faded, but there is still plenty of room for clever stuff.

That said, SNL's "Space Pants" skit is amazing, and is the definition of a one note, absurdity for absurdity's sake skit. It's stupid, but well paced and handled to stay that stupid. Seth Rogan's Sausage Party looks the same way. Stupidity != easy.

 

[vallorn]

I would say no. Further, I would say that you missed the irony to put a flat "No" in your options after all of your witty positives in the poll.

Actually if you think, "He's pining for the fjords!" would mean that it's not dead. Also Baldrick's "coffee" Isn't THAT lethal... Just don't ask for sugar or milk in it.

To everyone else, thanks for the replies, I see I was being a bit narrow minded with regards to the comedy I was using in my examples.

 

[Silentpony_v1legacy]

John Dies at the End

You mean Dogma? 'cause...Dogma.
And then Dogma. because Dogma.

 

[FalloutJack]

I would say no. Further, I would say that you missed the irony to put a flat "No" in your options after all of your witty positives in the poll.

Actually if you think, "He's pining for the fjords!" would mean that it's not dead. Also Baldrick's "coffee" Isn't THAT lethal... Just don't ask for sugar or milk in it.

To everyone else, thanks for the replies, I see I was being a bit narrow minded with regards to the comedy I was using in my examples.

I wouldn't drink Baldrick's coffee if you paid me. I thought of a flat no as pure irony because it is not clever and witty, but deadpan straight man, and therefore funny without effort.

 

[F-I-D-O]

John Dies at the End

You mean Dogma? 'cause...Dogma.
And then Dogma. because Dogma.

Nope, I mean John Dies at the End by David Wong.
Granted, I haven't seen the film adaptation, but John Dies is very different from Dogma.
Mostly since it's written as a comedy the first read and a horror novel for the second, but also a host of other reasons.
Also due to the fact that John does not actually die at the end, instead his death kicks off the plot. Technically. It's weird.
Highly recommend it though.

 

[EbonBehelit]

Sharp writing seems to have (for the most part) given way to the pop-culture reference - and those are almost never funny. Case in point: The Simpsons.

British humor is still mostly on point, however.