Skeleon said:
Yes, more and more teenagers are attracted to Neo-Nazi groups and it's quite frightening, really. What you fail to see is that these misguided young ones are led by die-hard Neo-Nazis (who are in their forties and fifties, so they aren't just hopping onto a bandwagon). The teenagers themselves would not be a problem, no, but the direction this is going under the leadership of such people is troubling.
I think you're inflating the numbers a bit. "More and more teenagers" probably just constitutes of less than 10 percent of youths in any country, and it has been like that ever since 5-10 years after World War 2. And also, most of these "die-hard" Neo-Nazis in their forties and fifties are mostly comprised of people who were Neo-Nazis in their youth as well. They just didn't grow up like their peers did (we all know the type of middle aged men who cling on to what they were like when they were young adults, usually most people consider them sad or immature).
And frankly, if these "die-hards" can't even grow up and shape up like most of their peers did, why should anyone expect them to actually constitute as a "threat to democracy"? Realistically speaking, such a title is a bit too flattering for those kinds of individuals, even if they manage to gather a bunch of kids to their cause.
Skeleon said:
I don't trust problems such as these to just go away. In fact, in an election not long ago the NPD (basically a Neo-Nazi party) managed to get into parliament! Not at any large percentage, mind, but it doesn't bode well considering they haven't managed to get beyond the 5% hurdle in a long, long time (if they ever did; I'd have to look into it).
Now don't go call me a dick because of this, but I have to admit I doubt your statements that this paty you speak of is a fullbred Neo-Nazi party. We have a similar party over here, and while their group certainly have a lot of people with Nazi beliefs, most of them are just racists and bigots who are frustrated at our governments decision to take on huge amounts of immigrants (and in some ways, I actually agree with them on that matter, even without being a racist or a bigot myself).
Basically you can trace any Nazi/racist sympathies with how an individual government takes their stand on accepting immigrants and refugees, as well with how poor said government handles the integration of the immigrants into any given society.
Over here our government have done a pretty shoddy job at integrating immigrants. They have basically let them in and dumped them in some shitty apartment in the projects, and let them live off social security for an indefinate time. This of course helps them get by, while not really providing much in the way of luxury. This tends to generate an unwillingness to work (because the government pays for all living expenses), but still create a willingness to commit crime (government aid can only provide so far, but when the rest of society is advertising plasma television sets and fancy cars, these two elements combined with an apathetic government is bound to generate criminal behaviour).
Hopefully you understand that im no bigot and im not saying that people of other ethnicities are more prone to become criminals (because that would be plain stupid), im just saying that these several elements combined are more likely to generate criminal behaviour, regardless of ethnicity.
And how does the native population respond to this? In their eyes, it looks like their own government is just letting a bunch of criminal scum into the country and do nothing to stop it. Hence, sympathy for political parties with bigot and racist views tend to rise. And also, because the government is effectively putting censorship on these groups, the more the sympathy gathers foothold.
If the government instead opted at closing the borders and make sure to spend early budgets at rectifying the integration of the refugees and immigrants who are already in the country, and cracking down on crime, the general native population will be less inclined to vote for political parties with Nazi-like agendas.
So you see, it's not really permitting the Neo-Nazis to speak their mind which is causing the problems here, but governmental apathy and shoddy integration of immigrants into any given society. Censorship of these groups won't solve anything, mainly because the rise in Nazi-sympathy isn't the disease at hand but just a symptom of governmental apathy and poor handling and integration of immigrants and refugees. To use censorship to cure this is basically just sticking your head in the sand, pretending the problem will go away.
Skeleon said:
The Weimarer Republic was a democratic state but it did not have the means to protect itself from anti-democratic influences. I don't want such mistakes to be made again.
Quite good, actually, I don't consider myself a threat to democracy.
There must be limits to freedoms for everybody to have as much freedom as possible.
But seriously. Let's say that you are a black person, how is your freedom "limited" to an unacceptable degree just because a white person is permitted to say he hates all black people and that he wish they were dead?
Sure, you might not like to hear that if you are black yourself, but really you have ALL THE FREEDOM to ignore this racist bigot and his shouting. And as long as he doesn't break into your home and tries to manifest his wishes by trying to kill you, his speech does nothing to impede on your liberty what so ever.
Let them shout all they like, World War 2 and it's causes are still not that far away in the past. Even a fourth to fifth grader realize that Nazis are idiots. These idiot bigots will only get public sympathies if the government fuck up in a way so that it looks like the racists and Neo-Nazis are right. So how about trying in being "the better man" instead? Perhaps through making sure that governments doesn't fuck up, which is far more important than making sure that a few bigot idiots keep their mouths shut?
Skeleon said:
They aren't absolutes. Things can always get worse even than anarchy and violence to be sure. But I don't want the country to come to that (or even further).
But you're treating them as such when you expect a country to immediately turn to anarchy and violence (by the way, anarchy isn't necessarily a bad thing, just so you know)... Just by letting people speak their mind?
You seem to forget that the stigma of shouting racial slurs is what keeps most people in line, not the laws passed against it. It's like with internet piracy, there are simply too many people who think it is okay to do, so they don't really care that it is against the law. : )
Really, if you think about it. Do you really believe that a surge in racism and bigotry running rampant across any nation will be the result if the laws against it were repealed?
Do you seriously believe that the majority of the population in most industrialised countries are really just a bunch of Nazis in disguies, clenching their fists in their pockets because the government has forbidden them to speak their opinions? And if you do believe that, could you provide any proof that actually points to this?
Skeleon said:
Well, you're right, it's not so much human nature as it is upbringing and education, you got me there. But I doubt we can change that anytime soon, either.
But you have to agree that changing upringing and education for the better would be a far more easier task than changing human nature, right? ; )
