Whilst any upcoming single-player TES game will have my undivided attention, I don't have even a flicker of interest for this MMO adaptation. I'll just let this one pass me by and wait patiently for the next single-player installment.
Poll: The Elder Scrolls Online and the Imperial Edition
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Personally, I would rather play a good subscription MMO (preferably with no in-game microtransaction crap) than almost any F2P model MMO. Frankly, I haven't found a single F2P MMO at all engaging (GW2 was horrid 
) and I've tried a few. Most of my best MMO memories are from Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, and EVE Online.
F2P can be done well when it's all cosmetic. I think games like DOTA 2 do a good job of that. However, a lot like to make you pay for actual in-game content and, a lot of the time, I find that devs who work on F2P model MMOs are just really looking for a cash vending machine, rather than a truly compelling game. Neverwinter was duller than dirt.
Anyway, I wasn't planning on playing TESO primarily because it looks like TES in name only. It doesn't seem to share anything but words/names with the franchise games.
) and I've tried a few. Most of my best MMO memories are from Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, and EVE Online.F2P can be done well when it's all cosmetic. I think games like DOTA 2 do a good job of that. However, a lot like to make you pay for actual in-game content and, a lot of the time, I find that devs who work on F2P model MMOs are just really looking for a cash vending machine, rather than a truly compelling game. Neverwinter was duller than dirt.
Anyway, I wasn't planning on playing TESO primarily because it looks like TES in name only. It doesn't seem to share anything but words/names with the franchise games.
this is all successful multi-billion dollar game companies in a nutshell, if not standard business practice in general, if you believe that these people who invest money respected you to begin with your mistaken, fans of a franchise, any franchise is a wallet with a human component attached, the whole goal of any business is to make money and do anything they can to do it, you as an individual don't matter, your one number in a demographic and the goal is to have the largest demographic possible. so if you buy anything your a sad, pandered to sucker convinced to buy something frivolous, games are not a right, or a privilege, they are a luxury, and you pay for luxury hand and foot.CriticKitten said:To be honest? I think you were fooling yourself to expect any better.
It was clear from the onset that TESO was built to capitalize on what's popular, and was designed to milk its audience for all it's worth.
They lifted several ideas from their direct competitors (GW2, for instance) and even advertised like their competitors (they released a video explaining their gameplay philosophy that sounds an awful lot like GW2's Manifesto, for example) to try and attract a crowd that's sick of the "traditional" MMO.
They designed the game's combat to function like Skyrim, since that game made the franchise have a broader appeal, and opted for a Diablo II-esque looking skill tree system because of how massively popular that game was. They also opted for 3-faction PvP because of how people enjoyed it in DAoC, and because of how GW2 was touting it in their game as well.
They knew that the established lore of the game would become problematic to introduce to new players, and that established players would call them on any flaws in the world they created, so they basically stated that they tossed out established lore and that this was the 'real' lore of Tamriel this time.
And then the reviews of the beta came rolling in, and they were almost universally negative and commenting on how the game wasn't ready to go live, and that feedback was generally ignored by the devs, who pushed forward with an early 2014 release date anyways.
The fact that it took you until now, the release of the Collector's Edition, to figure out that they're just trying to milk you for your cash....
Yes, this new reveal is certainly very sad and only makes it more obvious that they're in it for the dough, but really. If you're just catching onto the fact that maybe the game was built for money first, rather than designed to respect the franchise and its fans, then you're way behind the rest of the gaming community on this one. This game only exists for one reason: because MMOs make money hand-over-fist in today's market, and Zenimax/Bethesda wanted as much of yours as they could get.
Any fan who would still choose willingly to participate in this farce of a game after all of these warning signs telling them to stay away kind of deserves what they get, honestly. I will not feel sorry for people, months and months from now, who feel ripped off by TESO, because seriously....all the signs were there. Shy of a large, flashing neon panel saying "We just want your money" attached to the webpage of TESO, I'm not sure how much more obvious it gets.
I can say through years of experience that, other people can love or hate your own work more so than you. So I find this rather irrelevant. An artist can despise a piece of his work that others adore and love since it's seen from a different perspective. Not really agreeing or disagreeing with you but simply find it meaningless to me.SajuukKhar said:
Skyrim doing it implies a relatively recent change brought about by a millennia being removed from the Black Marsh, this game takes place several thousand years before hand and such things wouldn't have happened yet. Before that it was a complete immunity to all diseases and toxins of a non-magical nature.SajuukKhar said:You are aware thatCybylt said:
A. Argonians lack any poison resistance in Skyrim: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Argonian
B. Argonians poison and disease resistance in lore only really applies to stuff from Black Marsh. they are resistant to outside toxins, but they are only immune to stuff from Black Marsh.
C. She is lying and the entire thing its a trap/ambush.
D. Every race worships Sithis as the original creator.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Monomyth
"In most cultures, Anuiel is honored for his part of the interplay that creates the world, but Sithis is held in highest esteem because he's the one that causes the reaction. Sithis is thus the Original Creator, an entity who intrinsically causes change without design. Even the hist acknowledge this being."
Also, Sithis isn't the god of death, he isn't the "god" of anything, he is just the representation of the primal force of chaos and change.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Sithis
Actually, only the city of Alinor, the home of the Altmeri elite, has ever been described that way.Cybylt said:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore
"A forbidden city for nearly fifty years, Alinor is both capital of the Summerset Isles and the heart of the Aldmeri Dominion. Human traders were only allowed at its ports, and they described the city as "made from glass or insect wings." Less fantastic accounts come from the Imperial emissaries of the Reman Dynasty, which describe the city as straight and glimmering, "a hypnotic swirl of ramparts and impossibly high towers, designed to catch the light of the sun and break it to its component colors, which lies draped across its stones until you are thankful for nightfall."
buildings on the Summerset Isle are known to range from everything from coral
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore
"The oldest of all the ruins there, and in a few isolated spots throughout the island, are made of coral, which must have been carried many, many miles away from the sea."
All the way to basic stone, as seen in the ironically named Crystal Tower of Summerset.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Crystal_Tower
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Don't believe everything you read on 4chan, those guys couldn't TES lore thier way out of a paper bag.
Recognition and praise of Sithis at all is almost entirely relegated to the Brotherhood and the Hist (and they're only really mentioned in side material) while all others revere Aedra and Daedra. Could be argued that since she's an argonian she could fit into the Hist end but by and large anyone you come across in TES who even mentions Sithis works with or is a member of the Brotherhood, and that'd also make for a terrible trap when your first line, to most people, is "hello, I am an assassin-cultist."
Of course it was the only one described that way, Alinor is the only Altmer city that was actually described in detail and outsiders were allowed to see. It could be because it was their biggest and shiniest city and altmer are supremacist d-bags who want to show off but when that makes up the entirety of known altmer construction it's hard to say that's not how they construct the majority if not entirety of their cities. Further, the Crystal Tower and other things regarded as ancient (everything mentioned not named Alinor) were made by the Aldmer, not the Altmer who are their descendants by many many years.
I was uncertain what to make of this game.
When it first got announced I though yea it could work. The first gameplay impressions where still pretty good.
Then I got into the beta and I have to say it does nothing for me. I?m not a diehard fan of the franchise to begin with and only manage to beat the games with tons of mods installed. Basically I like the TES games for their mod-ability and not their vanilla experience.
Of course ESO lacks the mod support for obvious reasons. What is left is the clunky vanilla experience of any TES: Horrible animations, lacking models and textures, stale lifeless world, rather substandard voice acting and most importantly: Unsatisfying combat. And that got paired with an unintuitive GUI, rather conservative quests, astonishingly lack of social aspects and a boring story I could not stand following. I admit that I did not get that far into the beta as my progress was ultimately blocked by a broken story quest on the second island but in that time I never even remotely felt like interacting with other players.
Even the largely solo-able SWTOR had more opportunities/incentives on its first planets to join a group for quests/instances.
Despite my very negative impression I was still rather willing to get into as some of my friends really digged it. You know just playing it to do something with my friends, then even subpar games become enjoyable.
However this put me off entirely.
I?m actually an advocate of the P2P model. As I don?t want any monetization in my game experience. And I mean at all!
I pay retail price and I pay the subscription and for that I want a complete experience and never ever want to see any $/? symbol in the game ever again!
ESO promised this in the start, which was cool, but it does no longer supply this as evidently seen with pre-order bonuses and exclusive content you probably also can unlock via and item shop or paid customer services later on. And this is where I draw the line as I wasn?t too keen on the game anyway as explained.
When it first got announced I though yea it could work. The first gameplay impressions where still pretty good.
Then I got into the beta and I have to say it does nothing for me. I?m not a diehard fan of the franchise to begin with and only manage to beat the games with tons of mods installed. Basically I like the TES games for their mod-ability and not their vanilla experience.
Of course ESO lacks the mod support for obvious reasons. What is left is the clunky vanilla experience of any TES: Horrible animations, lacking models and textures, stale lifeless world, rather substandard voice acting and most importantly: Unsatisfying combat. And that got paired with an unintuitive GUI, rather conservative quests, astonishingly lack of social aspects and a boring story I could not stand following. I admit that I did not get that far into the beta as my progress was ultimately blocked by a broken story quest on the second island but in that time I never even remotely felt like interacting with other players.
Even the largely solo-able SWTOR had more opportunities/incentives on its first planets to join a group for quests/instances.
Despite my very negative impression I was still rather willing to get into as some of my friends really digged it. You know just playing it to do something with my friends, then even subpar games become enjoyable.
However this put me off entirely.
I?m actually an advocate of the P2P model. As I don?t want any monetization in my game experience. And I mean at all!
I pay retail price and I pay the subscription and for that I want a complete experience and never ever want to see any $/? symbol in the game ever again!
ESO promised this in the start, which was cool, but it does no longer supply this as evidently seen with pre-order bonuses and exclusive content you probably also can unlock via and item shop or paid customer services later on. And this is where I draw the line as I wasn?t too keen on the game anyway as explained.
I've never liked the idea much to begin with. The main appeal of the Elder Scrolls games have been wandering around aimlessly getting distracted by every little thing over and over and before you know it 50 hours have gone by and you've probably never even touched a quest. An MMO simply cannot create this sort of atmosphere, especially not one built around PvP like this one is.
That, and subscription MMOs are a complete ripoff, always have been. If I spend 60 bucks for a single player game and am able to play it forever without ever having to spend another cent on it, I should be allowed to on MMOs as well. If I have to pay 1/4th of the price of the game every month, I damn well better get 1/4th of the main game's worth of content every month. Also, the very fact that Free to play MMOs are even possible means that there is nothing on their end that could possibly justify it either. Besides, if this is really about paying to have other people around, why can't I or anyone have some sort of offline mode that shuts off the multiplayer features instead of being completely locked out of the game entirely if I don't pay?
That, and subscription MMOs are a complete ripoff, always have been. If I spend 60 bucks for a single player game and am able to play it forever without ever having to spend another cent on it, I should be allowed to on MMOs as well. If I have to pay 1/4th of the price of the game every month, I damn well better get 1/4th of the main game's worth of content every month. Also, the very fact that Free to play MMOs are even possible means that there is nothing on their end that could possibly justify it either. Besides, if this is really about paying to have other people around, why can't I or anyone have some sort of offline mode that shuts off the multiplayer features instead of being completely locked out of the game entirely if I don't pay?
Now thats just stupid... F2P games are paid for as well just not by you maybe but by others with micro transactions. The fact is most people spend more money on F2P games than they would have spent in subs on a P2P game because they can?t keep track of their micro transactions.immortalfrieza said:
And servers and staff cost money. A SP game does not need such a server infrastructure nor staff in form of game masters and a rather complete dev team that creates new content (SP game sell their new content in form of addons/DLC). MMOs kind of do.
And for many MMOs it was true that you did in fact get free addons. For example Lineage 2 received I think about 9 chronicle updates that drastically expanded and changed the game during its P2P phase. And it wasn?t the only one.
And an offline mode for an MMO? I don?t even comprehend that request. ? The point of an MMO is the social aspect not to mention that everything about your character/play is saved on the server not on your PC. These are persistent worlds that move on (e.g. economy) even when you are logged out. Saving stuff local opens every door to cheaters as well. MMOs doesn?t work offline.
I dunno. I can expect some level of bugginess and non-polish when plying betas but stuff like combat, quest structures, loot and skills should be in place already with maybe stuff like placeholder models and animations, but when all of those were completely boring and dull to me and there's only 4 months left of the game, I hardly expect a massive overhaul of the game, so I can comfortably say "it's not for me".elvor0 said:
1. Skyrim implies nothing of the sort, as many of the Argonians in Skyrim mention being from Black Marsh. Racial powers change every game because none of them are 100% canon lore, it's just whatever Bethesda decides to make it for that game for balance reasons.Cybylt said:
Also, Argonians only ever had a 75% disease resistance, they have never had complete immunity to both poison and disease.
Oblivion: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Argonian
Morrowind: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Argonian
2. TESO takes place less then 1,000 years before Skyrim, not thousands.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Second_Era
2E 582 ? The Alliance War begins.
2E 896 ? Tiber Septim conquers Tamriel.
3E 0 ? Beginning of Third Era
3E 433 ? Oblivion Crisis and assassination of Uriel Septim VII
4E 0 ? End of the Oblivion Crisis.
4E 201 ? Alduin the World-Eater destroys the town of Helgen, heralding the return of the dragons and the end of the world.
201+433+(896-582) = 948 years
3. Recognition and praise of Sithis is not almost entirely relegated to the DB and Hist, everyone acknowledges Sithis, however, again, Sithis is a FORCE, not a tangible being like the Nine Divines or the Daedra, hence why he isn't actively worshiped by most. Sithis is like gravity, everyone knows it exists, and thinks it's cool because it keeps everyone on the ground, but you dont ever hear anyone talking about it, or worshiping it. Furthermore, the Argonians are known to have a connection to Sithis, so no, people wouldn't consider that "Hi I am an assassin cultist" if an Argonian said it.
4. It's actually easy to say that it doesn't make up a majority since nothing ever implied it. The only thing that could ever be implied is that that one city is made that way, and not that anything else was made that way.
5. Actually, it was the Altmer who made Crystal-Like-Law, not the Aldmer. It was the elves inability to decide what to do after creation that caused them to split along cultural lines, with each group going off on its own and making their own tower, thus ending the Aldmer race, and forming all the sub-races, including the Altmer. The Altmer made Cyrstal-Like-Law, the Ayleids made White-Gold, the Dwemer made The Numidium, the Bosmer made Falinesti, the Falmer made Snow-Throat, and the Left-Handed Elves made Orchalic.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/nu-mantia-intercept
You know nothing of TES lore.
Sorry, but quite frankly, bullshit. There are plenty of MMOs out there that have never made a cent off their player base and are doing just fine. Mostly this is due to advertising dollars, but if they can pull it off, then ALL MMOs can pull it off, they just are being greedy. Besides, even if that's true, the fact that F2P MMOs can be played by anyone for most of it's content for nothing more than the initial purchase price if anything at all regardless of how they manage to do it means that subscription MMOs are just ripping people off.Ishigami said:
It's rather simple, the offline mode would drop the chatbox and other players and the player could just do the content that can be done alone, and if they want the rest THEN they pay. Most MMOs actually worth playing don't require other players to get most of the enjoyment out of it's content anyway. Doing this would remove what little justification there was for a subscription fee at all, since the people who do this wouldn't be stressing the servers to begin with. That, and this way the game would be playable in some fashion even long after they eventually shut off the servers entirely. A lot of FTP MMOs pretty much do things this way anyway.
You know things are bad when ShoddyCast make a video denouncing these practices as well. And Shoddycast have been involved in some developer vlogs and feature them in podcasts discussing the game. At least, up until this point. I think he raises good points:
I sincerely doubt that. I think of myself as well traveled when it comes to MMORPGs and there is not one that I could think of that is financed thru add revenue.immortalfrieza said:
I dare you show me a MMORPG in the style of e.g. WoW, Lineage 2, Aion, Tera, ESO etc. that can stand afloat by adds alone.
I can?t even think of a way to implement adds on these games that would make any sense.
A mere banner in the launcher application won?t cut it for sure. Product placement? In e.g. a medieval fantasy setting? Banners in the GUI?
No sir, I think you are wrong.
No it does not. For every player paying nothing another player is paying more. Guild Wars 2 prolonged existence is not financed by your initial purchase of the game, it is financed by continuous purchases of other players in the item shop.immortalfrieza said:
GW1 for that matter was hardly an MMO in the traditional sense, as e.g. GW2 is, as it did not feature a persistent world and most instances were handled on the client, only hubs were actually MMO.
If you have a MMORPG like ESO on the market you have to maintain a good sever cluster. It continuously cost money and someone has to pay for it on a regular basis.
Just look at WoW numbers. It was/is printing money, yes, but did you see what Blizzard had to pay for their servers? It actually put Blizzards market value under pressure because the risk was so high that the maintenance of the service could cripple the company if something unexpectedly changed.
And start over? Because you either were always connected to the service and played on the world or you were offline which then results in an untrustworthy condition of your character data.immortalfrieza said:
Being alone and playing alone are not exactly the same.
How about not playing an MMORPG and instead playing an actual RPG? Sorry but for me it seems you simply are not the target audience for this particular genre.immortalfrieza said:
This is why I can?t have a nice MMO anymore?
I would rather force the publishers that they have to release a server client so fans may continue the service on freeshards on their own account.immortalfrieza said:
Not any big AAA MMOs no. but do a random Google search for MMOs, you'll find plenty of half decent MMOs out that survive purely off of the banner ads on the pages, and do I really have to keep saying "if they can do it?"Ishigami said:
There's things called loading screens and inventive ways to unobtrusively put ads in ways that fit the setting without breaking immersion. Put the word Bud Light on the side of some beer barrels in a tavern, put a small Toyota stamp on the side of a wagon, etc. It's not that difficult to do, just put some thought into it.
That maintenance is their problem that they are responsible for causing to begin and their responsibility to maintain. They are the ones who decided that everybody has to log on to their servers to play their game whether they wanted to or not, they are the ones who released a buggy game instead of doing half decent quality control and releasing an all but perfect game the first time instead of spending time and money patching it over and over again, and they are the ones who decided not only to release a game that lacks enough content to keep the players occupied for long, but decided to make more content. Besides, especially with the last there are things called expansion packs they could be using instead, as well as the aforementioned ads.
No, just allow the servers to be able to tell the difference between a hacked character and a real one when the subscriber logs on and keep out everybody who shows any signs of hacked character, and as a result only the ones that aren't cheating get in, pretty much the same thing they do already. Any developer who made an MMO like I suggest would have to be brain dead not to take such measures. Besides, as I'm sure you're perfectly aware, people try to hack MMOs all the time, this would be no different. Hell, even if it actually did work as you suggest it might even be interesting and possibly informative to have an MMO for hackers who's goal is to outhack each other.
Neither I nor anybody else should be excluded from being able to enjoy a product solely because we aren't willing to put up with being treated less like actual customers and more like an endless money vacumm. I mean, what the hell? They wouldn't be able to get away with nickle and diming their customers like this in any other industry or even genre but somehow with MMOs it's okay? NO IT'S NOT! It's merely that one has been given no other real alternatives to being exploited that's all.
The reason you can't have a nice MMO anymore is because people like you not only let them get away with this blatantly exploitative crap you encourage it. They create and release a half-assed bare bones obvious beta of an MMO and expect everybody to just sit back and throw them more money than they earned just to be able to use a product they already bought, and the reason they do that and keep doing that is people like you prove them right time and time again.
My idea would be far simpler for everybody involved and wouldn't cost anybody anything, it's a win win. Besides, there's always private servers if it's needed.
How about another idea - why don't YOU make that google search and YOU find us those MMOs, eh? Can't be that hard, now can it? And after all it's YOU who made that claim, thus it's YOU who has to prove it.immortalfrieza said:
Even then, what you also have to prove is that if one, by your own words, non-big MMO can do it, then any MMO can do it. Do you happen to know what the maintenance costs for a game are? If you have figures, I'm sure you'll let us have a peek and decide for ourselves what is feasible or not because right now, I don't think anything like the aforementioned MMOs can be subsidized by ad revenue as the costs maintaining them are quite big.
You're joking, right? Or do you seriously think computers are magic? Because that...requires a spell to pull off. Tell me - do you know anything about software and how exactly would one go about finding if a character is "hacked" or not?immortalfrieza said:
Quite the opposite - they need a very living brain capable of manipulating the fabric of the universe to pull this off.immortalfrieza said:
It is VERY different. The fact that you are suggesting it's not tells me you have absolutely no clue about how different we're talking about. I don't really think I can help here - if I write a post about everything wrong you just said, something tells me you'll just skim it and continue going "Nope, because I say so". Just for reference, I'd probably need a small essay. I'm not joking or even being sarcastic - that sentence requires a small essay as a full response.immortalfrieza said:
Your idea has no basis in reality. Or if you really think it does, write up the specs, as in actual specs and get some people to develop it - heck, if you have sensible spec, I'll immediately volunteer joining your team. You'll obviously win lots of money and there is a market niche for this sort of game.immortalfrieza said:
I haven't played that many MMOs, but it took me all of 10 seconds to locate these:DoPo said:
http://mmo-play.com/free-mmorpg-games?adcmp=freemmorpg&adkwd=free%20mmorpg&gclid=CLmyjJKts7wCFecRMwodaEgAbg
I'm not going to dig through them all, but most of the ones I looked at had no paywalls of any sort.
You are the one asking for figures? I'm the one saying said figures are bullshit, either completely false and/or the result of their own faults, so YOU provide figures. Also, it's simple logic, if it's possible for one to do it, it's possible for all.
Player connects, server checks if the character has anything that is impossible for that character to obtain under the game's rules stored in the server itself, if it does, it's hacked and thus will be not be permitted to be used. The only way somebody could get away with it would be to hack the server itself.
immortalfrieza said:
Go ahead, tell me how the hell it's different in any way. People hack MMOs all the time, another thing that takes a brief Google search to allow anybody to find out.
Maybe I will, once I get finally get in school to develop games.
Hell with it anyway. I'm not going to get into a debate with people who couldn't be more obviously wrong from the outset as people who actually support this exploitative MMO system like it's somehow a GOOD thing.
EDIT: One last thing, even if what I'm saying isn't true, (and it is true) it sure as hell should be true, and as long as people just sit on their asses and put up with being exploited, THEY'RE GOING TO KEEP GETTING EXPLOITED!!!