Poll: The Elder Scrolls VI: what do you want?

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SajuukKhar

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Cpt. Lozan said:
I was really dissapointed by Skyrim's lack of big cities
Skyrim
-Markarth: 22 places: http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Markarth
-Riften: 27 places: http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Riften
-Soltiude: 27 places: http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Solitude
-Whiterun: 26 places: http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Whiterun
-Windhelm: 25 places: http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Windhelm
On average, 25.4 locations per city

-Oblivion
--Anvil: 26 places: http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Anvil
--Bravil: 24 places: http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Bravil
--Bruma: 24 places: http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Bruma
--Cheydenhal: 26 places: http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Cheydinhal
--Leawiin: 26 places: http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Leyawiin
On avarage, 25.2 places per city.

As you can see, Skyrim's cities are the same size on average as Oblivion's in terms of total houses/shops.
 

TheYellowCellPhone

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I want combat, melee combat especially, t turn into something more than a spammy slugfest of who brought the most healing potions. Using melee combat like Dishonored or Dark Messiah, where weapons have weight and power and blocking is a crucial and fluent element, would make the game SO MUCH BETTER. Magic should have more umpf to it than Duelcasting Fire Hands while holding down the S key and waiting for a minute for mana to recharge.
Asita said:
4) If you must have armor options, there should be distinct benefits to the various armor types. At the end of the day, light armor and heavy armor had the exact same role in Skyrim, and the effective armor cap meant that Light Armor pulled out ahead due to being quieter, lighter and just as protective. Effectively, Light Armor was Heavy Armor, only better. Giving the armor types distinct roles (chance to dodge vs fully tanking, for instance) helps to avoid this problem
I like what SkyRe did. Armor skill was less about your damage soaking efficiency and more about killing guys with that subset of armor.
 

Jimmy T. Malice

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The next Elder Scrolls should really focus on the Dominion. Whether it's Summerset Isle, Elsweyr or Valenwood, it'll be an interesting location and a good departure from the standard swords-and-sorcery fantasy that the series seems to be sinking into. There's plenty of potential in walking tree-cities and the various other things that the lore puts in those places. Don't retcon the imaginative lore of past games for the sake of familiarity - it's much more exciting to explore an alien, unfamiliar place. Like Morrowind, only less brown, boring and static.
 

Joby Baumann

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SajuukKhar said:
2. They wont because
--Less armor pieces means more NPCs on the screen because the game has to render less objects
--That many armor pieces would make perks difficult, if not impossible to do.
--Having that many armor pieces makes each piece of armor largely worthless.
--All the weapons in Morrowind played exactly the same, there was no difference between melee weapons besides look, and with the removal of all the extra weapon types, they are able to spend time on giving weapons special effects/bonus that the would have time to do if they had so many weapons. They will only add weapons back in if they can find a unique gameplay mechanic for it, like Crossbows.
More armor pieces adds variety and customization to the game, With upgrades to hardware since it's next gen, rendering more objects isn't a problem.

The perks could be managed in a number of ways, it could be based on having a full set, it could be solely based on the cuirass, or it could be based on the total weight of armor and the armor bonus given. Just because it doen' fit in the current system doesn't mean it can't work

Armor was not worthless in Morrowind, or Oblivion, both of which had armor in pieces, why would they be worthless now?

The weapons in Morrowind had more differences than the ones in Skyrim. Rather than only being based on speed vs. damage, each weapon had 3 attack types: stab, slash and chop, each weapon had different damage values for each, in addition to reach and speed. The different weapons were suited to different attack types, and balances. Even the thrown weapons, (darts, throwing stars, and throwing knives) were different balances of range and damage. Plus, enchantments and bonuses are a separate system from the base weapons.
 

SajuukKhar

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Joby Baumann said:
-More armor pieces adds variety and customization to the game, With upgrades to hardware since it's next gen, rendering more objects isn't a problem.

-The perks could be managed in a number of ways, it could be based on having a full set, it could be solely based on the cuirass, or it could be based on the total weight of armor and the armor bonus given. Just because it doen' fit in the current system doesn't mean it can't work

-Armor was not worthless in Morrowind, or Oblivion, both of which had armor in pieces, why would they be worthless now?

-The weapons in Morrowind had more differences than the ones in Skyrim. Rather than only being based on speed vs. damage, each weapon had 3 attack types: stab, slash and chop, each weapon had different damage values for each, in addition to reach and speed. The different weapons were suited to different attack types, and balances. Even the thrown weapons, (darts, throwing stars, and throwing knives) were different balances of range and damage. Plus, enchantments and bonuses are a separate system from the base weapons.
-Next gen doesn't cancel out the engine.

-That would make perks trees way over-bloated, and would require way too many perks to fit every possible armor combo type.

-Re-read what I said, I said each armor piece was worthless, as in, one could go around missing a piece or two, or three, in Morrowind case, of armor, and still do fine, because there was simply so many of them that lacking a few didn't matter.

-False, for many reasons
1. Skyrim's weapons each have three kinds of power attacks, that have different effects. whereas Morrowind's 3 attacks only did different damage, and no one ever used anyone but the highest dam one.
2.Skyrim's weapons have reach, speed, and noise levels, and while Morrowind had reach, and speed, they had no noise attribute.
3. thrown weapons were pointless, as bows outdid them all, making them pointless.

Never talked about enchants or bonuses so....
 

Jimmy T. Malice

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Spears and throwing weapons weren't actually that good in Morrowind. The only advantage spears had was a little more reach.
 

Cpt. Lozan

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SajuukKhar said:
Cpt. Lozan said:
I was really dissapointed by Skyrim's lack of big cities
Skyrim
-Markarth: 22 places: http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Markarth
-Riften: 27 places: http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Riften
-Soltiude: 27 places: http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Solitude
-Whiterun: 26 places: http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Whiterun
-Windhelm: 25 places: http://uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Windhelm
On average, 25.4 locations per city

-Oblivion
--Anvil: 26 places: http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Anvil
--Bravil: 24 places: http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Bravil
--Bruma: 24 places: http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Bruma
--Cheydenhal: 26 places: http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Cheydinhal
--Leawiin: 26 places: http://uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Leyawiin
On avarage, 25.2 places per city.

As you can see, Skyrim's cities are the same size on average as Oblivion's in terms of total houses/shops.

"Houses" isn't really a valid measure of the scale of a city. The cities in the older TES games FELT like cities. They felt large and varied and inhabited. Cities like Riften, Winterhold, Morthal,Dawnstar, Falkreath all seemed miniscule. Even some of the larger cities like Whiterun seemed kinda hollow.

I might just be getting old and jaded but Skyrim was really the first TES game to really lack the charm,depth, rich lore,Interesting quests,Absorbing and meaningful guilds, and colorful characters I've come to expect from the series.
 

MrCollins

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Jun 28, 2010
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I want to see a much longer thieves guild campaign (like in Morrowind), I really liked that I could play being a thief for 20 hours, unlike in Skyrim where in the same amount of time, I have complete 4 guilds in their entirety.
 

SajuukKhar

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Politeia said:
It's not a matter of hard numbers, it's flavor. People want spears and throwing weapons because of the flavor, not because it will make them the most efficient killing machine in a game where crafting is so broken you can craft a dinky iron dagger to the point you can kill Alduin in one hit. (Note: Hyperbole)
Game features, such as different weapon types, should have a real use in the game, or else having them is largely pointless.

Anyone can fill a game world with what amounts to 500 of the same object, just with a different look to it, but that doesn't add any real depth or complexity, it just means the copy-pasted the same item 500 times.

The weapons they have now largely fill every role there is
-Swords do extra crit damage.
-Maces ignore armor.
-Axes cause bleed over time.
-Daggers are completely silent assassin weapons.
-Bows are long range, silent, sniper weapons.
-Crossbows are heavy hitting, armor ignoring, long range weapons, essentially the long range mace, as the bow is to the dagger/sword

The only weapon I could ever see them adding in is spears/lances, and even then, only if they make NPCs able to do mounted combat, and have them do it in a large way.

Cpt. Lozan said:
"Houses" isn't really a valid measure of the scale of a city. The cities in the older TES games FELT like cities. They felt large and varied and inhabited. Cities like Riften, Winterhold, Morthal,Dawnstar, Falkreath all seemed miniscule. Even some of the larger cities like Whiterun seemed kinda hollow.

I might just be getting old and jaded but Skyrim was really the first TES game to really lack the charm,depth, rich lore,Interesting quests,Absorbing and meaningful guilds, and colorful characters I've come to expect from the series.
literally the only difference between skyrim's and Oblivion's cities are that Oblivion's cities walled off large areas of open fields to make them seem larger then they were.

Beyond that
-Both have the same number of total locations, houses, inns, shops.
-Both have numerous NPCs walking the streets, and talking to each other.
-Both have varying styles based on regional differences.

The only thing I can see different between Skyrim and Oblivion's cities, besides the lack of having 1/4 of the city by nothing but grass, is that NPC conversations are a lot better, and more focused on the city instead of "HUR HUR HUR MUDCRAB". that and since the cities dont wall of large amounts of nothing, NPCs are crammed closer together, so cities feel more alive, instead of being mostly dead street like in Oblivion.

Nor can I see the lore angle, everyone in the TES community HATED Oblivion for being bland, and fucking up the lore, and when Skyrim came out, the lore section on the Bethesda forums rejoiced over the return of interesting.

Oblivion turned Cyrodiil from a tropical jungle, full of tattooed rice farmers, who were part snake people, into generic medieval Europe.

And dont get me started on Oblivion's piss awful guilds, so full of plot holes they make Skyrim's TG look well written and solid.
 

Glongpre

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I want them to go back to written text, but it will never happen. Think of all the good that would come of it though.
 

tilmoph

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Jun 11, 2013
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The biggest thing I would like is a reactive world, one that changes based on the things I've done. As a simple example, Maven Black-Briar at one point threatens me over something, and mentions that she has contacts with the dark brotherhood. At the time, I was the Listener of the Brotherhood; I'm the pope of the damn murder cult, but for some reason I can't just point out that if she tries to order me dead, I can have her tossed in my torture dungeon by my stabby acolytes.
And while we're on the subject, how come Nocturnal didn't realize, during the thieves guild quest, that I was a werewolf and had already pledged my soul to Hircine, the Listener of the Dark Brotherhood and therefore pledged to Sithis, the dragonborn and therefore had a dragonsoul (well, lots of dragonsouls, things were delicious) and which may not actually work like a normal mortal soul. Shouldn't she have taken one look and decided "Nope, no way, not a chance of Wolfboy the Slaughter-Prophet becoming a damn Nightingale. He can pretty much sort shit out on his own just fine."

This is my main complaint; beyond levels and some gear, sidequests and guild quests don't seem to mean jack to either the main plot or each other. They just sort of occupy separate universes, and that annoys me.
 

Cpt. Lozan

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SajuukKhar said:
Ok, let me try this again.

The cities in Skyrim felt cramped. It felt like the area in which these people lived was far too small for them to live in. I don't want to play "The Elder Scrolls:Guilded Age America" where people lived on top of each other, because then I just get taken out of the game, the immersion just dies.

I honestly do hate what Oblivion did to what lore was already established, they still put alot more flavor in Oblivion than they did with Skyrim. ALL of the guilds were better. I don't even want to get into that, I'm just gonna end up writing a freaking book about how much I hated the thieves guild and dark brotherhood in Skyrim for having almost no depth. And if you want to see why I didn't like the way cities operated in skyrim, look no further than Riften. As soon as you walk up to the gate, the guards try and shake you down (Which a mute monk could talk his way out of BTW). Then as soon as you walk in, you're accosted by another man who warns you to mind your own business. Then when you walk to the meager bazaar you are again forced to talk to some random dude who says you have the look of a thief about you. Really? My freaking Argonian mage, fully robed, in mage robes, Looks like a thief. Same thing with my Orc Warrior, who's wearing full plate mail and holding a battle axe. He looks like a thief? Really? Come on man.
 

SajuukKhar

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tilmoph said:
Shouldn't she have taken one look and decided "Nope, no way, not a chance of Wolfboy the Slaughter-Prophet becoming a damn Nightingale. He can pretty much sort shit out on his own just fine."
the thing about ES game heroes is that they are above destiny, you may have sold your soul 6 times beforehand, but there is still a chance for someone else to take it, or not have it take at all.

Essentially, the Daedra are willing to fight each other over your soul, because its so tasty.

Cpt. Lozan said:
The cities in Skyrim felt cramped. It felt like the area in which these people lived was far too small for them to live in. I don't want to play "The Elder Scrolls:Guilded Age America" where people lived on top of each other, because then I just get taken out of the game, the immersion just dies.
Skyrim actually depicts a far more realistic version of how cities would be. Making giant walls was a very costly endeavor back in the medieval time, and so homes and shops built inside the keep walls WERE crammed up next to each-other. That is how shit was back then, cities weren't like Oblivion's where 50% of the inside of the city wall was open space, and each home had a 5 acre garden. that simply isn't how stuff worked back then.

If realism breaks immersion then..... I don't know what to say.

Cpt. Lozan said:
ALL of the guilds were better.......

And if you want to see why I didn't like the way cities operated in skyrim, look no further than Riften......
I could write a book about how bad Oblivion's guilds were also. Skyrim at least has some logic in them.

So you hate that, in a city of thieves, the guards are corrupt and try to extort money from you, the local enforces of the crime families tell you to mind you own business, and the TG recruiters try to recruit people into their organization? So you hate people acting like the should, and in a believable manner? But yes, the Brynolf thing was dumb.

Every time I see posts like this, I get the impression no one really cares about the game world making sense, or being real, they just want a game that never does anything that might offend them, and runs off of "the rule of cool" where everything is EPIC for the sake of epic, rather then Epic because it should be epic.
 

tilmoph

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Jun 11, 2013
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SajuukKhar said:
tilmoph said:
Shouldn't she have taken one look and decided "Nope, no way, not a chance of Wolfboy the Slaughter-Prophet becoming a damn Nightingale. He can pretty much sort shit out on his own just fine."
the thing about ES game heroes is that they are above destiny, you may have sold your soul 6 times beforehand, but there is still a chance for someone else to take it, or not have it take at all.

Essentially, the Daedra are willing to fight each other over your soul, because its so tasty.
I can see that specific example as justified by lore (still would've preferred at least some reaction though), but still doesn't explain why I can't call upon guild resources to either influence politicians (assassinate Ulfric and his lieutenants, for ex.) or get things done (fighter's guild at the bruma gate).
 

Tom_green_day

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To me, it was pretty perfect. The game flowed well and the world was flawless. The only thing is- night wasn't actually any darker than day. Made the Khajit bonus useless. Not a big thing but there is so little to critique.
And the engine should be fine. If Gamebryo lasted years, Creation should too.
 

bug_of_war

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Joby Baumann said:
Throw in the Numidium for good measure too, the best 2 (daggerfall and Morrowind) were based around it.

Also just save modders the trouble and just have vanilla have nudity. Daggerfall and Arena did it, and no shitstorm was had.
Eh...the Numidium was cool and all but I'd rather see the games storyline progress forward and have new things happen rather than fall back on an old storyline. As for the nudity thing, Arena and Daggerfall looked worse than children's drawings so even if there was nudity in them it's not exactly explicit. Also, people tend to wear underwear, and there's nothing heroic about stripping someone's underwear off just so you get a glance at their bodies...if you wanna see nudity, watch a porno.

OT: I don't care where they go, so long as the game is basically Skyrim improved I'll be happy.
 

Joby Baumann

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bug_of_war said:
Joby Baumann said:
Throw in the Numidium for good measure too, the best 2 (daggerfall and Morrowind) were based around it.

Also just save modders the trouble and just have vanilla have nudity. Daggerfall and Arena did it, and no shitstorm was had.
Eh...the Numidium was cool and all but I'd rather see the games storyline progress forward and have new things happen rather than fall back on an old storyline. As for the nudity thing, Arena and Daggerfall looked worse than children's drawings so even if there was nudity in them it's not exactly explicit. Also, people tend to wear underwear, and there's nothing heroic about stripping someone's underwear off just so you get a glance at their bodies...if you wanna see nudity, watch a porno.

OT: I don't care where they go, so long as the game is basically Skyrim improved I'll be happy.
The nudity was a joke, since the first mods made for any game tend to be boob mods.