Poll: The Empire from Star Wars vs The Imperium of Man from Warhammer 40.000, which would win?

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Zykon TheLich

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It's kinda like the USSR vs Nazi germany here, sure the germans have all the cool tech and the Russians take a battering for a while but in the end when the USSR gets prepped for war it's just absolute crushing weight of numbers. The republic was approx 1000 worlds IIRC, the Imperium approx 1,000,000. The Republic is 1000th of the Imperium, it's a small sub sector.

To paraphrase my favourite evil overlord: "There is a level of force that...uh...hang on *goes to read book* ..."Only 2* things matter: Force, in as great a concentration as you can manage...In any battle there is always a level of force against which no tactics can suceed"

*the second is style, but in a pinch that can slide ;p
 

KiKiweaky

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Ohhh nice thread topic, been a fan of both at one stage of my life. Admittedly I'm biased though, 40K is a huge part of my life between books, games, tabletop gaming etc......

Jedi and Sith wouldnt last very long against alpha level psykers (apologies for the nerd) but the devastation they wreak in the books is crazy o.o

Also the fanatacism of many in the Imperial forces is obscene. I dont think Ive seen such a dangerous bunch of chemicaly, bionically enhanced xenophobic masochists like the space marines before. Clones are a good point in the empires favour but against the billion billion worlds of the Imperium there can be only one winner...

The Imperium of Man would trample the empire underfoot and probably not even notice it had done so.

 

MakerOfRoads

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Cab00se206 said:
I have a rebuttal.

Sure thing, stormtroopers may beat IG.

But I'm fairly confident that a squad of 12 space marines would lay waste to entire regiments of storm troopers.

1 Land raider with 10 Space marines would destroy.

And don't get me started on Termies. Terminators would do the same damage as said space marines, only suffer little to no losses.

My only question here is who in their right mind, understanding both sides, would vote for the Empire?

Space marines are steeled for battle, practically brainwashed into needing it to have a purpose for life, and while stormtroopers may be highly trained, their only human, something an Astartes is not.

Space Battles, kinda iffy. If they manage to get some space marines on those star destroyers, that ship is toast.
 

Liberaliter

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I remember when this thread was done before, enjoy your 20+ page thread OP!

Haha, anyway - definitely the Imperium of Man, if only in terms of sheer numbers.
 

Duffeknol

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Greyfox105 said:
One thing that just occurred to me...
When was the Empire last involved in a bloody battle?
I can't think of any in which blood was spilled on, say, the scale of a battle in which the Imperial Guard are involved.
Not really the Empire, but the newly formed New Republic got their first real threat from the Yuuzhan Vong in the New Jedi Order books. Religious, anti-tech alien zealots. Of course the New Republic won in the end, but with losses best compared to a full scale Tyranid hive fleet invasion. Trillions lost. 365 trillion to be exact.
 

Valkyrie101

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Mechsoap said:
The imperium of man is much more fanatical about their believes, they would happely send a million starships against the death star and just crash into it.
I think this is a good point. The Imperium has the numbers and the military experience over the Empire (tech is highly debatable so we'll assume even). But what the Empire lacks, despite a Sith Lord as a leader, is the sheer bloody ruthlessness of the Imperium. As someone else mentioned, the Empire is used to squashing rebellions and dealing with a few guerilla insurgents. Nothing could prepare it for total war of the kind that the Imperium practices.
 

Dwarfman

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I would think it to be a long and bloody conflict but in the end the Imperium of Man would win.

Sure the Galactic Empire has a fleet of Star Destroyers, Storm Troopers, The imperial army and their Walkers, a couple of planet killers and two sith lords running the show, but the Empire of Terra is a juggernought of power.

A massive fleet of their own and a hoard of troopers, artillery and tanks. That's even before you take into account the Adeptus Mechanicus and their colossal knights and titans, the Space marines and teriminators of Adeptus Astartes and the Inquisition, Grey knights, Sisters of Battle and the assassins. Adeptus Telepathica will also be a problem as offically the Galactic Empire only has two psykers - Unofficially I'm sure it's more!

The Imperium of Man would view Palpatine as an agent of chaos and the aliens of that galaxy as abominations. Nothing would be left!
 

g_hughes

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As long as the Imperium of Man isn't seen as the 'protagonist' then the Empire should have a chance. It only seems that they suck against 'the good guys' in any given situation.
 

Caliostro

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Completely unfair. The "power scale" is completely tilted to the Space Marines.

The Galactic Empire would have some advantage on a ship vs. ship thing, but battle barges and most space marine ships are built to withstand serious punishment, so they would be boarded. And when it comes to actual military units, it's not even a contest.

The Imperial Guard or the Sisters alone would more than outmatch Stormtroopers. Hell, they'd probably make short work of any Sith as well. Once the Astartes got in it wouldn't even be a fight, it would be an outright slaughter. A single Astartes squad, even without terminators, could whip out an entire super star destroyer without taking any casualties. Terminators would take entire planets without needing a breather.

On top of all that, the Imperium GREATLY outnumbers and outguns the Galactic Empire, and they have far better orbital bombardment techniques (which would be absolutely unnecessary given that the space marines themselves wouldn't even sweat to overtake one of the planets), not to mention Exterminatus.

Again, not a fair fight. The world of Warhammer 40K is designed specifically to be the most over the top war centric universe ever.
 

Samnite

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Karma168 said:
Reveras said:
On a side note, this is one hell of a movie (bought it and watched it):
Any good? was worried they might make it too 'cartoony' to be a proper SM movie.
If I were to sum it up in one sentence, it would be 'a spirited first attempt.' There was a bit too much walking-around-in-creepy-atmosphere at some points, I was hoping for a bit more brutal close-combat and I've seen fanfiction with better story/dialogue, but the fact that they even made this is encouraging. They haven't dumbed things down for the sake of those new to the franchise; this isn't going to win new people over, it's made for existing fans.

It's good, but needs improvements which I hope to see in the future.

OT: To my knowledge, the Empire doesn't seem to have much that can counter almost anything the Astartes can wield, so that puts my vote firmly in the Imperium's court. Crushing empires is their day job.
 

teisjm

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The empire of man: manages to survive against turanids, orks, chaos, dark eldars and all sortf of other nasty stuff.
The empire: gets defeated by a small army of rebels, with a single dude capable of some minor magic tricks.

Need i say more?
 

Dwarfman

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I noticed a lot of people saying the Empire might have an advantage over the Imperium in space.

But in all seriousness how many ISD commanders deal with cruiser to battleship sized vessels that are actually designed to attack by ramming other ships twice their size!

I think the only real advantage the Empire fleet has is light speed.
 

Dragonblade146

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I say Dath Vader or any Sith would be a decisive win against most of the Imperium of Man. The Grey Knights may stop psychic powers and warp, but the force isn't either of those. Its midichlorians, which if memory recalls are cells that can control the pervasive level of ENERGY, not a warp or psychic power. On top of that lightsabers are highly stables bolts of plasma, being to the point of touching anything it melts, cuts, and cleans a cut right through. That being said, not many kinds of armor could survive it. I don't think the Imperium has the mineral, that vibroblades were made out of. (Sorry I can't remember the name.)

As for ship versus ship. An Acclamator Troop Transport outputs somewhere around 300 million GigaWatts. And thats only with 24 guns. Sheilding on that can take almost 700 trillion GW before thats even broken. And then it has the 34' hull, which was made from a form of steel that was almost incrediably powerful. I forget the name of that too. And thats just a troop transport. A Imperial Class Star Destroyer is almost 10 times larger then that, so by standards it could be up to 10 times stronger. (Most of this info was taken from a canon book.)

Land vehicles also contain sheild generators, at some points. Vehciles like the AT-AT can have sheild generators built into the hull, making it an already formidable force against anything to making it a monster able to deal and dish the immense damage. (AT-AT's fire roughly I believe 150 million GW of energy in bolt for roughly 1 every 4 seconds.) Now say AT-ST can deal a lot less then that obviously as its a fast scout vehicle. It has much lighter guns but its interchangable with different turret types allowing Anti-Air/Vehicle with the torpedoes they fire, or Anti-Infintry with energy bolts.

Troopers are actually an elite infantry force. The 501st is a seasoned, WELL seasoned battle regiment from the beggining of the clone wars. They have experiance fighting in space and fighting against droids or humans. They have far superior technology and armor then most give them credit for too. Hell, the only reason why they would "miss" in the movies is because they were shooting at the heros. If you look in the movies they are actually very accurate. They even show advanced tactics, like in the beginning of ANH, they boarded the ship almost immediatly and only a couple got cut down due to surprise attack, but they dominated the rebels shortly there after. Again about the movies and ewoks they were never actually beaten. As someone has already said the 501st continued to be a major pain in the ass for The New Republic. Storm Troopers obviously have incrediably fast reflexes as well noted on Endor during the speederbike scene. A normal human would have a hard time navigating that as well as they did. The only reason Luke didn't crash is he is a jedi. Leia crashed pretty fast but obviously didn't die because she is a hero.

The Storm Trooper technology is also on par with many things. Their blaster is incrediably powerful as it was fire plasma bolts, most notably drawn from the fact it uses a plasma gas cartridge for 500 shots. The E-11 even had many different variations from a longer barrel for longer range and a sniper rifle, to even a carbine. Storm Troopers also had a side arm (Not seen in movies canon books and shows.) the SE-14r, which was short range obviously but again fired plasma bolts as its implied most SW weaponry fires. Elite Storm Troopers also used a DLT-19 Heavy Blaster rifle. Which could hold many more shots, fired at an increased pace, and had far more accuracy. All Storm Troopers also had a thermal detonation core on their back, which had a unique input code that only the Storm Trooper knew. And even then, it was completely disguised in the back of the armor requiring special ways to get to it.

Armor is another big thing many people look over. Many of the Storm Troopers "killed" probably werent. The Plastoid armor is capable of take bolts and impact, as well as protecting against concussion and explosions, and even the enviorment. Sure a direct hit of plasma could cut through the armor, but it wouldn't actually kill them unless it was a head or direct heart shot because it would barely graze against the skin due to the compositiong of the armor. Very often the armor also had holigraphic displays in the helmet, wrist comms, and resonaters. Storm Troopers could also be outfitted with packs (As seen on SandTroopers.) that had water, food, rations, more ammo, tents, and even Dwarf Spider Droids for support fighting.

EVEN MORE SO, there are specialized units of Storm Troopers. Ranging from Aquatic fighting to Zero-G Assault Troopers. There are many ranges including Force Sensative Troopers which had limited use of the force, and to detect. There are even NovaTroopers, who specalize in shock and awe tactics of boarding enemy ships and having layers of strips and armor, making them bulky, as well as behind enhanced by neuro making them tougher and faster capable of taking ships, infiltrating by force or simply used to force the enemy to surrendur from sheer fire power. You also have Shadowtroopers, which have built in stealth units and specalize in hand to hand combat as well as silent killing. You have Imperial Marines, Incinerator Troopers, Heavy Troopers, Dewback Troopers (They are mounted units for quick assaults.), Field Troopers who are veterans from the Clone Wars and have incrediable amounts of experiance, Magma Troopers, EVO Troopers, Shock Troopers, Storm Commandos.

And of course you can't forget DarkTroopers which are Endoskeltons of clone/droid cyborgs on the indside, resistant to heat, plasma, lightsabers, a whole list. They are even specalized themselves the most notable ones being Purge Troopers who were Jedi killers, I'm positive those could take on the guard. You then also have the Three Phases of Dark Troopers, Phase 1 CQB using a sheild and a vibro blade. Phase 2 more precise storm troopers, with heavy repeating blasters and assault cannons plus jetpacks. Then the final Phase 3, is based almost entirley on Boba and Jango Fett, using Jetpacks, rockets, flamethrowers, blasters, and cannons. All being mounted on the exoskeleton leaving the hands free.

Adding even more to the pile as my final two sense (I may quote myself and post more if I remember anything else.), the Empire is highly mobile as they use Hyper Speed, not warp speed. So they can deploy much faster then the Imperium. And they have continuous clone resources, as well as recruits joing into the Empire after the formation of the New Republic. You don't give the Storm Troopers enough credit. They are an incrediably powerful fighting force and could easily give the Imperium a run for their money.
And I didn't even start on their ships, or the Sith. (Keep in mind, their are also Sith/Storm Trooper hybrids. Just something to think about.)

So my whole statement here. Is that accounting for everything the Empire has to offer, (Death Star with held at this momment.), the Empire could win. Not a total crush, it would be a long and hard fight. But they could win.
 

Synthenoid

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I'm going to rant at you, and you're either going to like it, or not. There are no two ways about this.

This is a fictional topic, so I guess it's only fair people might say, "they look cooler" and leave it at that, but this is a topic that I find rather intriguing, so I'm going to try and throw a slightly less biased opinion with the few already out there.

Even though my avatar gives it away, strictly by the specifications layed out by Housebroken Lunatic, the Empire would be nothing but a flea on the back of the Imperium of man. I might be inclined to leave it at this, if I didn't want to adequately defend the Empire from all the slanderous assumptions.


The Empire has it's own military, propably not on such a large scale as the Imperium, but certainly able to rival it. This military isn't made up of Stormtroopers, as many people have ignorantly assumed, but trained soldiers, on a bare minimum as well trained and equipped as the Imperial Guard. In a contest between them it would either be a tie or a very pyrrhic vistory for the Imperium of man.

In a contest of Adeptus Astartes versus Storm Troopers there is no question that, one for one, the space marine would crush his adversary. But then those numbers favoured by so many Imperium fans start to filter in. A standard space marine chapter, obviously not counting those special few that don't apply to protocol, is 1,000 fighting effectives, 100 of those not fully decked out in power armour. Against the entire power of the Storm Trooper corps, number a mere 9,000 to a single Star Destroyer and as little as 1,200 found across every planet under the Empire's control, they would eventually grind the Adeptus Astartes down to nothing.

Psykers vs Dark jedi and force adepts, that's even less of a contest. Psychic powers are a lot more common amongst the ranks of the Imperium, but then 90% of those are only fir to be astropaths, still, by the time of the Empire the only force users around were those in hiding and Palpatine's small organisations of adepts.

Technologically speaking, the Empire has the edge, they aren't on the edge of technological breakdown. Shields are so common most forms of land vehicles and space craft use them while blasters have been designed to such an extent that minimum range for a military pistol comes to half a kilometer and hyperspace travel is far faster than warp travel.

Plastoid composite, basic Storm Trooper armour is too thin to fully block a direct lasrifle round, less accurate shots would be either absorbed or glance off. While it's use against laser and plasma weaponry isn't quite up to standard it does fully protect them from any form of physical ammunition, even those that are designed to peirce armour.

Navy-wise, the Imperium's ship, on average, are larger than the Empire's, more geared toward what would equate to a siege not a battle. That being said, they carry less weaponry across their length which, with the added heft of their shields, leads them toward capital ship based combat, each battery being able to draw more power from the reactor.
The Empire has only a few battleships that could slug it out with the awesome might of the Imperiums powerfully shielded and armed warships, however, a smaller ship is harder to hit, and given the Imperium's technological decline, their targeting systems wouldn't be on par with the Empire's.
A battle in space would come down to the skill of the respective captains and admirals. If the Empire could deftly use their speed and wide array of weaponry, or the Imperium fully embrace their powerfull shields and armament, the battle would swing toward their favour.

The Imperium has some magnificent vehicles, and the effect of a Titan or super heavy tank would be grievously felt on the battlefield, but these vehicles are rare, while their counterparts within the Empire aren't.
Contrary to Cab00se206's view of AT-AT's being comparitively rare sight, a single Star Destroyer holds 20 of them, almost twice the "dozen" a commander would be "extremely lucky" to have under his control.

When it comes down to it, I side with the Empire. The Imperium's tactics are more Blitzkrieg style, with overwheliming force applied to small areas, but Russia beat Germany simply by logistics, and so could the Empire. The Empire has the logistical support and tactical maneuverability to see it through the initial crushing defeats it would face, but the Imperium would soon run itself ragged, either overstretching to guard it's gains, or failing to concentrate the strength needed in time to counter the Empire's counter attacks.

Call it bias but even though I cared enough to thoroughly investigate the Imperium of man's achievements, I'm and Imperial at heart and the Imperium simply can't keep up the steam to win a war.
 

Synthenoid

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Dragonblade146 said:
Synthenoid said:
...
I love you.
You put everything else floating around in my brain into coherent words.
The feeling's mutual.
Up untill now, it looked like dark days for the Empire, but with you here, we can take them all on.