Poll: The End of the Used Game Resale is Nigh! (bring out your dead .. Ding)

[Tayh]

One of the poll choices would be more meaningfull if people knew how the difference between "I couldn't care less" and "I could care less". The former is what they mean, the latter is what they say, their message is the opposite of their intentions.

 

[Crazy Zaul]

Someone, probably here, already explained that the blocking consoles won't happen cos the retailers will refuse to stock them.

 

[CardinalPiggles]

if they were to block used game, piracy would rise

Absolutely, I can personally guarantee that it would by at least one.

I think a lot of people would be so outraged by this I doubt they would even buy the console, at least at full price anyway.

Just thinking about it actually, we could still sell the consoles on and buy used consoles.

 

[Rack]

Wasn't there a publisher who said the only reason game prices are as high as they are is because of used game sales? It explains why PC prices are a good £10 cheaper on release date for the same title, less lost sales for the publisher through used games.

No, PC games are cheaper because you don't have to pay a license fee to Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo when buying the game.

This is a circular problem really, I can see the problems used games are causing; developers going bust, the disappearance of genres, multiplayer crammed into every title, the death of short games and so on. But the reason why games are traded in so much is because they are so damn expensive, I'm not going to trade in a DVD for a few quid if I think I'm going to watch it again, but if I can get £20 trading in a game that will be selling for a tenner in a few months why wouldn't I?

Really I think this needs to be sorted on two fronts, get rid of second hand sales but also reduce the price of games and add in some better ways to demo them. If I could play the first 3 hours of Binary Domain for a fiver then buy it to keep for another £15 that would be much more tempting than buying it for £35 then trading it in for £20. I get more value, the publishers get more money, everyone wins.

 

[Starik20X6]

I only buy new games. Partially because I owe it to the creators, but also because I just like to have my games in perfect new condition. The only two games I've ever bought pre-owned were unavailable as new copies.

HOWEVER!

I have heard that this anti-used game stuff will lock the games to one account (PSN, XBox whatever). This'd be a right pile of bollocks because both me and my two brothers share all our games and each have our own PSN profiles. Does that mean each of us has to buy a copy? Fuck that. That would be the kind of bullshit that'd keep me from buying the console. If they want to try and restrict used games, they'd have to do it in a way that doesn't butt-fuck their legit customers.

 

[Jodah]

I have no problem with them trying it this way. If they want to make their consoles only accept new games then that is their right, just like it is our right to not buy them for full price. Lack of resale hasn't really hurt PC gaming, I don't see it killing gaming in general.

 

[DionysusSnoopy]

When i trade in, i tend to do it in blocks and have had £50 - £70 returned as store value. This is generally used to buy new releases thus earning the companies money. Secondly its enviromentally friendly allowing a person to trade in recycles the game rather than just throwing the game out.

Note: Most of the games i trade in are ones that are no longer stocked unless used.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

I can see the problems used games are causing; developers going bust, the disappearance of genres, multiplayer crammed into every title, the death of short games and so on.

I remember when they used to blame all of that on piracy.

It was last week.

 

[Dogstile]

I wouldn't buy the console. I brought the game, I brought the content. I don't give a fuck if it tells me the license is non-transferable and non-resellable, they didn't make me sign the legal document before I forked out my money, they can go fuck themselves.

 

[Qitz]

There's no way either would risk it.

If Sony does it but Microsoft doesn't? Theres extra sales for Xbox.

Microsoft does but Sony doesn't? Sony wins.

Both do it and Nintendo doesn't? Nintendo wins.

Not to mention people will crack that shit faster than iPhones.

 

[Macemaster]

if they were to block used game, piracy would rise

Absolutely, I can personally guarantee that it would by at least one.

I think a lot of people would be so outraged by this I doubt they would even buy the console, at least at full price anyway.

Just thinking about it actually, we could still sell the consoles on and buy used consoles.

well what would be the point to buying the games anymore? they'd charge you £40($60) for a game, the price wouldn't go down cos they'd be no competition and if it did go digital distribution on console, do you honestly think microsoft and sony would have deals like the ones on steam?

and lets not go into consumer rights...

 

[jklinders]

I support the idea of cracking down on used game sales, here's why:

Look at other medias like movies, books and music.

Movies - the film-makers get a fat sack of cash from a studio to make their film, and when it's done it's licensed to theaters and makes money there. It's then licensed to DVD/Blu-Ray and makes money there, also rental stores. It's THEN licensed to pay-per-view blockbuster TV channels, and online services such as NetFlix. It's THEN licensed to free TV.
So effectively the movie has been sold five times to five different mediums - used DVD sales are rampant but that doesn't matter because the movie is still producing cash all across the entire world.

Books - cheap to write, cheap to produce, sell for a huge markup from that production cost. If the writer is successful, they can then cash in on merchandise, signings, even movie deals if they do well enough (Harry Potter), and the process goes up to my first point.

Music - a little more complicated because the RIAA can fuck off, but some artists make ridiculous amounts of money off their music in more ways than album sales. Merchandise and shows are huge, plus endorsements and advertisements - how a musician makes their money is limited by their imagination and personality. Taylor Swift made $80,000,000 in the past two years, plus $100,000,000 revenue (not all hers) from her recent world tour - and almost none of that was from album sales.

Games - developer has capital, makes game, sends to stores and online services like Steam.
That's it. End of profit.
They don't get their money anywhere else except in a few rare exceptions. There aren't shows, there's very few merchandising options, and they need that profit to be able to have jobs next month and to create new content.
This is why games are made over and over, like CoD and EA Sports, and why publishers ruin games. They want it guaranteed to sell as much as possible because new copies are all the income they get, while used game sales and piracy hurt their bottom line and thus jack up prices.

As a gamer and also retail businessman, I say I don't care about stores. The evolution of technology is making stores and physical copies obsolete, when you can download games directly to your PC and Xbox through services like Steam and the Live Marketplace.
Who wants to go out and give a store a cut of the price of a game when you can have it ready to play by leaving your PC on overnight downloading as many titles as you want? Plus doing that, you get automatic updates, instant DLC, tech support and instant access to that game's fan community.
The only situation in which I'd support buying a used game is if there literally are no new copies on the shelves or anywhere else to buy because they simply don't stock it anymore. You shouldn't be entitled to a cheaper product just because you can't afford a new one.

tl;dr - used game sales hurt game developers that are irrelevant to other medias, down with stores and up with Steam.

That is the best written example of what I have felt about this issue that I have ever seen written down. Thank you for articulating my thoughts on this better than I ever could.


OT

The quoted article seems to mention the next Gen consoles by name. Just one more reason to steer clear of those things and stick with PC gaming. Convenience comes at a price.

I buy new for the reasons listed above. I buy digital for the reasons listed above. The brick and mortar stores have been actively killing PC gaming for over a decade either through second hand sales or simply not bothering to stock anything. Why should they get my money?

 

[Sansha]

I support the idea of cracking down on used game sales, here's why:

Look at other medias like movies, books and music.

Movies - the film-makers get a fat sack of cash from a studio to make their film, and when it's done it's licensed to theaters and makes money there. It's then licensed to DVD/Blu-Ray and makes money there, also rental stores. It's THEN licensed to pay-per-view blockbuster TV channels, and online services such as NetFlix. It's THEN licensed to free TV.
So effectively the movie has been sold five times to five different mediums - used DVD sales are rampant but that doesn't matter because the movie is still producing cash all across the entire world.

Books - cheap to write, cheap to produce, sell for a huge markup from that production cost. If the writer is successful, they can then cash in on merchandise, signings, even movie deals if they do well enough (Harry Potter), and the process goes up to my first point.

Music - a little more complicated because the RIAA can fuck off, but some artists make ridiculous amounts of money off their music in more ways than album sales. Merchandise and shows are huge, plus endorsements and advertisements - how a musician makes their money is limited by their imagination and personality. Taylor Swift made $80,000,000 in the past two years, plus $100,000,000 revenue (not all hers) from her recent world tour - and almost none of that was from album sales.

Games - developer has capital, makes game, sends to stores and online services like Steam.
That's it. End of profit.
They don't get their money anywhere else except in a few rare exceptions. There aren't shows, there's very few merchandising options, and they need that profit to be able to have jobs next month and to create new content.
This is why games are made over and over, like CoD and EA Sports, and why publishers ruin games. They want it guaranteed to sell as much as possible because new copies are all the income they get, while used game sales and piracy hurt their bottom line and thus jack up prices.

As a gamer and also retail businessman, I say I don't care about stores. The evolution of technology is making stores and physical copies obsolete, when you can download games directly to your PC and Xbox through services like Steam and the Live Marketplace.
Who wants to go out and give a store a cut of the price of a game when you can have it ready to play by leaving your PC on overnight downloading as many titles as you want? Plus doing that, you get automatic updates, instant DLC, tech support and instant access to that game's fan community.
The only situation in which I'd support buying a used game is if there literally are no new copies on the shelves or anywhere else to buy because they simply don't stock it anymore. You shouldn't be entitled to a cheaper product just because you can't afford a new one.

tl;dr - used game sales hurt game developers that are irrelevant to other medias, down with stores and up with Steam.

That is the best written example of what I have felt about this issue that I have ever seen written down. Thank you for articulating my thoughts on this better than I ever could.


OT

The quoted article seems to mention the next Gen consoles by name. Just one more reason to steer clear of those things and stick with PC gaming. Convenience comes at a price.

I buy new for the reasons listed above. I buy digital for the reasons listed above. The brick and mortar stores have been actively killing PC gaming for over a decade either through second hand sales or simply not bothering to stock anything. Why should they get my money?

You can thank TotalHalibut of CynicalBrit fame for my inspiration. Feel free to copypaste wherever appropriate.

And I agree entirely - Doom2 and other retro games are on Steam for like five or ten bucks. The old developers see that money from work twenty years ago - you'll never in your wildest dreams find it in stores. And I mean never.
Physical copies ad great when they come with collector's editions but that's the limit for me. Everything else is digital. No disks, no mess, no worries.

 

[DanielBrown]

I only buy new games, so it doesn't really affect me. I don't like the used games sales here in Sweden at least. You get next to nothing and they sell it for almost the price of an unused copy.

"Couldn't care less", btw.

 

[krazykidd]

I have mixed feeling about this . Personally , i don't buy games used ever ( unless they are ps2 games ), i just don't trust people to take care oftheir discs . On the other hand , i do have a problem with not being able to lend or borrow games to/from a friend . And i do see why people might no like this because they buy games used all the time and i'm siding with them .

On the other hand , this situation is easily remedied , just but the game new when the price drops . This will hurt publishers more .

Now if publishers were smart , they would just make the next gen consoles DD only , that eliminates the discussion completely ... Doesn't it?

 

[Phlakes]

I posted in another thread about this and I'll do it again- find any notable market in the national economy, and instantly remove a major source of revenue. Come tell us how that turns out.

 

[Kotaro]

No flipping way would I support a console that tries to do this.
Though I'm probably going to sit out of the next generation, anyway.

 

[Xanthious]

I support the idea of cracking down on used game sales, here's why:

Look at other medias like movies, books and music.

Movies - the film-makers get a fat sack of cash from a studio to make their film, and when it's done it's licensed to theaters and makes money there. It's then licensed to DVD/Blu-Ray and makes money there, also rental stores. It's THEN licensed to pay-per-view blockbuster TV channels, and online services such as NetFlix. It's THEN licensed to free TV.
So effectively the movie has been sold five times to five different mediums - used DVD sales are rampant but that doesn't matter because the movie is still producing cash all across the entire world.

Books - cheap to write, cheap to produce, sell for a huge markup from that production cost. If the writer is successful, they can then cash in on merchandise, signings, even movie deals if they do well enough (Harry Potter), and the process goes up to my first point.

Music - a little more complicated because the RIAA can fuck off, but some artists make ridiculous amounts of money off their music in more ways than album sales. Merchandise and shows are huge, plus endorsements and advertisements - how a musician makes their money is limited by their imagination and personality. Taylor Swift made $80,000,000 in the past two years, plus $100,000,000 revenue (not all hers) from her recent world tour - and almost none of that was from album sales.

Games - developer has capital, makes game, sends to stores and online services like Steam.
That's it. End of profit.
They don't get their money anywhere else except in a few rare exceptions. There aren't shows, there's very few merchandising options, and they need that profit to be able to have jobs next month and to create new content.
This is why games are made over and over, like CoD and EA Sports, and why publishers ruin games. They want it guaranteed to sell as much as possible because new copies are all the income they get, while used game sales and piracy hurt their bottom line and thus jack up prices.

As a gamer and also retail businessman, I say I don't care about stores. The evolution of technology is making stores and physical copies obsolete, when you can download games directly to your PC and Xbox through services like Steam and the Live Marketplace.
Who wants to go out and give a store a cut of the price of a game when you can have it ready to play by leaving your PC on overnight downloading as many titles as you want? Plus doing that, you get automatic updates, instant DLC, tech support and instant access to that game's fan community.
The only situation in which I'd support buying a used game is if there literally are no new copies on the shelves or anywhere else to buy because they simply don't stock it anymore. You shouldn't be entitled to a cheaper product just because you can't afford a new one.

tl;dr - used game sales hurt game developers that are irrelevant to other medias, down with stores and up with Steam.

Ah the old "Because the video game industry isn't able to properly monetize their product like other media consumer rights need to take it in the ass with no lube or a thank you afterwords" argument. Guess what sunshine, this argument fails on a few levels.

First get smooth the fuck out of here saying that gaming industry is hurting in the slightest from used sales. The gaming industry is posting record profits in an economy that is the worst since the great depression. Most people in other industries would trade places to be where gaming industry is in a second. They are making money faster than they can fucking count it. So saying that used sales is "hurting" the gaming industry is pure hyperbole at best and an outright lie at it's most likely point.

Secondly, and most importantly, assuming that drivel was true then it still wouldn't matter one fucking iota. Their problems to properly handle their business model are none of mine, or any other consumers', concern. We shouldn't bend over and spread open like a tranny hooker just because they feed us some line of total bullshit. They don't get to wipe their ass on consumer rights just because they think they aren't making a big enough pile of money.

Thirdly, used sales have been around since Magnavox shipped the first Odyssey system out the door and somehow the industry managed to, not only survive, but thrive and grow for four fucking decades just fine. You're telling me now, 40 years into things when games are as popular as they have ever been that used sales are starting to finally hurt things. Bullshit.

Of course this is a total moot argument at this time because used sales aren't going anywhere. Neither Microsoft, nor Sony, nor Nintendo, are thick enough to pull a move like this. Firstly, it would leave the race open for the taking to the company or companies deciding to not block used sales. If MS and Sony go this route while Nintendo leaves used sales in place then Nintendo has won before they sell a single console.

Beyond that, as much as they hate to admit it, the game makers need Gamestop and companies like them. Gamestop moves cubic fuck tons of both new hardware and software for these companies. They aren't going to shit all over that relationship and risk having their merchandise no longer be carried by one of the leading sellers of video games.

The bottom line is the tired "used games are hurting the gaming industry" diatribe that the industry and it's apologists keep spouting is absolute and total bullshit. Even if it wasn't that's their problem not ours as consumers. However, it's all just pointless speculation at this point because used sales aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[RJ 17]

Here's the problem with them planning on taking measures that "indirectly" effect the playability of used games...not only does that get rid of the used market but it also gets rid of the rental market. Both of these markets "indirectly" support the gaming industry as a whole. Really they'd be shooting themselves in the foot, not to mention the negative backlash from the fanbase.

I think it's safe to say that EA has officially over-taken Blizzard-Activision in the race to see "Who's the biggest and most hated bunch of assholes in the gaming industry". They've achieved this lofty title with policies such as the Online Pass which forces people who bought the game used or rented it to fork over an extra $10 in order to play the game online.

As such I think it's safe to say there might be full-on boycotts of next generation's consoles if they have it built-in that players will have to pay extra to play used/rented games online...let alone just full-out make it so that you can't play used/rented games.

I've got nothing against a company doing what it needs to in order to make money...hell, that's why they're in business in the first place. But all this pissing and moaning about losing tons of cash over used game sales is just stupid. It's just as stupid as the musical artists flipping out about Napster. Here's the simple fact of the matter: musicians make their money by doing concert tours, not via CD sales. Just like how game developers make their money during the first few weeks of a release when EVERYONE has to buy it new, not from random sales of a new game six months after it's been released. If you're a game company and you don't make enough sales in the first couple of weeks to get yourself a profit, guess what? You put out a crappy game that no one was interested in. Watch as I play a sad song on the world's smallest violin. Improve your quality rather than crapping out the next installment of a series once every year *cough*FinalFantasy*cough*Assassin'sCreed*cough* and people will be looking forward to getting your game when it comes out.

You'll get fewer conversations like these:
Guy 1: "Gonna get that new game coming out?"
Guy 2: "Eh, it looks alright. I dunno, I'll probably just wait till the price drops and/or buy it used."

and instead get more conversations like these:
Guy 1: "Gonna get that new game coming out?"
Guy 2: "Definitely, did you see the gameplay trailers? Looks amazing! I can't wait!"

Obviously conversation 2 is a bit of an exaggeration, but it shows my point. Make games that people can get excited about and they'll buy them new. Just keep puking out the same bland crap we've come to expect from most of the developers and people won't be interested in what you have to sell.

TL/DR: making the next console generation anti-used/rental games would be committing business suicide.

 

[Sampler]

Where do all these used games come from? Retail sales, and where does a very large percentage of the money/store credit they were given from the used sale go back on, retail sales.

Banning used game sales will mean a greater reduction in new sales - especially at the upper price points, game sale lifecycles will take a much longer tail profile as people wait for the price to drop - which as evident by Nintendo in-house titles on the Wii (pretty much the only ones worth buying) will mean they'll hold there original price much longer, further increasing the lifecycle of the product.

Meaning studio's will have to wait that much longer before they have the capital to re-invest in new games.

I guess publisher's don't mind such long life cycles but ultimately I see it as a far reduced volume of sales so even they should be concerned.

This benefits no-one.

As for piracy, I figure they'll work there way around it eventually, they have a pretty good track record of it so far.

Blocking rentals may also harm sales from those who buy after renting and will probably be the final nail in Blockbusters coffin. Which is a shame, my first job was in a video store (though the now defunct Choices brand) and it was a very enjoyable time and a great experience at that age.