Poll: The Experience Machine.

[Bara_no_Hime]

Do you plug into the machine? I know I would.
Edit: Oh, and you can never unplug. Assume you are a brain floating in a tank, also assume that you'll live for as long as your brain can provide you happiness.

Can these fantasies be networked?

The only reason I would say no to what amounts to eternal youth, beauty, and consequence free fun is not being able to interact with anyone else. However, if I could network with others who were having an equally awesome time (particularly people I knew before going in, like those I love) then we could have shared scenarios.

I mean, think about it. This would be the ultimate gaming experience! Connect to your friends and live out whatever fantasy you want, or play solo on your own.

 

[axlryder]

All things being ideal, I'd say yes, because I know the machine would not just default to providing me with some creepy utopia. It would provide me with a life that was perfectly designed to make me happy. Since my brain can not and will not effectively ever determine the difference, and the stimuli be provided to my brain is virtually the same stimuli my brain would be offered if these things were actually happening, then it might as well be reality.

The only way I'd say no is if I somehow felt that the "real" world would somehow be significantly worse off without me. In my current position, that might actually lead me to say no.

Preferably, I would be allowed to plug in right before I'm about to die, or when I stop becoming useful (or actively become detrimentally) to the world around me.

 

[Arakasi]

Do you plug into the machine? I know I would.
Edit: Oh, and you can never unplug. Assume you are a brain floating in a tank, also assume that you'll live for as long as your brain can provide you happiness.

Can these fantasies be networked?

The only reason I would say no to what amounts to eternal youth, beauty, and consequence free fun is not being able to interact with anyone else. However, if I could network with others who were having an equally awesome time (particularly people I knew before going in, like those I love) then we could have shared scenarios.

I mean, think about it. This would be the ultimate gaming experience! Connect to your friends and live out whatever fantasy you want, or play solo on your own.

No, but if having friends were optimally ideal for your happiness you would have friends in the simulation, and they would in all likelihood be better than your current friends, if not equal.

 

[Nouw]

I'm a bit confused as to what this machine does. Does it change my attitude to be happy all the time? Does my fantasy life go the way I'd like, 'therefore' making me happy all the time? Or does happy mean at-peace? Maximally happy, does that mean it's a perfect balance or are there no limits and it simply is being happy all the time?

Whatever the answer is, however, I will always refuse. It is a simulation, something artificial that has no real affect on the people and society around me. It is fake. Even if the machine takes into account working for my happiness, i.e. pain and all the other emotions, it would still be something that is only for the good of me.

 

[JaceArveduin]

So... It's the Lifelight system thing from Veelox? My paranoia is telling me to pass on this one.

I mean, seriously, my brain could come up with some horrible ways to die...

 

[Arakasi]

So... It's the Lifelight system thing from Veelox? My paranoia is telling me to pass on this one.

I mean, seriously, my brain could come up with some horrible ways to die...

...What?
The machine makes you maximally happy, that's it.

 

[JaceArveduin]

So... It's the Lifelight system thing from Veelox? My paranoia is telling me to pass on this one.

I mean, seriously, my brain could come up with some horrible ways to die...

...What?
The machine makes you maximally happy, that's it.

http://pendragon.wikia.com/wiki/Lifelight

I think this little thing might explain all of the mysteries.

 

[Arakasi]

So... It's the Lifelight system thing from Veelox? My paranoia is telling me to pass on this one.

I mean, seriously, my brain could come up with some horrible ways to die...

...What?
The machine makes you maximally happy, that's it.

http://pendragon.wikia.com/wiki/Lifelight

I think this little thing might explain all of the mysteries.

So what's the problem? So what if the world crubles as a result, those who are still alive will live with perfect happiness until the end of their days.

 

[Spuds]

I'm not looking for a specific response, I'm attempting to poke people's arguments until they fall apart. The reason I am on one side of the debate is that I can't think of a reasonable refutation of it, and therefore I can't really quote anyone who agrees with me and add anything to what they have, except that one time where the person agreed (possibly) because they missed the point.

The pleasure machine is actually a refutation of hedonism, meant to show that no one would actually choose to hook into the machine, so I really don't understand the problem you have with it, I don't think it's particularly biased, unless it is in the direction of the refutation.

My problem with the question is that it is like the "If you could have one blank on a deserted island what would it be?". The question is actually asking what is your favorite blank not if your choice is sufficient to survive off of or build a means of escape. Similarly the way you set up this question says to people: come up with arguments as to why not to plug in and not to actually consider the question seriously as it is impossible to do so. I predict if you tried for answers over lines of reasoning most would be something made from the mold of: no i am not comfortable doing this.

But then i am confused as to why there is a poll and about the original wording of your question.

 

[Arakasi]

I'm not looking for a specific response, I'm attempting to poke people's arguments until they fall apart. The reason I am on one side of the debate is that I can't think of a reasonable refutation of it, and therefore I can't really quote anyone who agrees with me and add anything to what they have, except that one time where the person agreed (possibly) because they missed the point.

The pleasure machine is actually a refutation of hedonism, meant to show that no one would actually choose to hook into the machine, so I really don't understand the problem you have with it, I don't think it's particularly biased, unless it is in the direction of the refutation.

My problem with the question is that it is like the "If you could have one blank on a deserted island what would it be?". The question is actually asking what is your favorite blank not if your choice is sufficient to survive off of or build a means of escape. Similarly the way you set up this question says to people: come up with arguments as to why not to plug in and not to actually consider the question seriously as it is impossible to do so. I predict if you tried for answers over lines of reasoning most would be something made from the mold of: no i am not comfortable doing this.

But then i am confused as to why there is a poll and about the original wording of your question.

The idea of the experience machine is to find out what people find to be valuable, be that happiness, reality, whatever. I have no idea what problem you could have with that.

 

[Spuds]

The idea of the experience machine is to find out what people find to be valuable, be that happiness, reality, whatever. I have no idea what problem you could have with that.

Ok originally i was trying to tell you your question was flawed and suggest an alternative. I don't have a problem with whatever the experience machine was originally supposed to function as. However what you just said is not how you are using this thread.

 

[Arakasi]

The idea of the experience machine is to find out what people find to be valuable, be that happiness, reality, whatever. I have no idea what problem you could have with that.

Ok originally i was trying to tell you your question was flawed and suggest an alternative. I don't have a problem with whatever the experience machine was originally supposed to function as. However what you just said is not how you are using this thread.

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Spuds]

The idea of the experience machine is to find out what people find to be valuable, be that happiness, reality, whatever. I have no idea what problem you could have with that.

Ok originally i was trying to tell you your question was flawed and suggest an alternative. I don't have a problem with whatever the experience machine was originally supposed to function as. However what you just said is not how you are using this thread.

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

You made this thread so you could destroy other peoples arguments. I did not know this at first. I did not know this because you disguised this thread as an honest question. I have been pointing this out. You either disagree with my assertion and or are confused. Because you tell me you do not understand i am compelled to respond.

 

[Arakasi]

The idea of the experience machine is to find out what people find to be valuable, be that happiness, reality, whatever. I have no idea what problem you could have with that.

Ok originally i was trying to tell you your question was flawed and suggest an alternative. I don't have a problem with whatever the experience machine was originally supposed to function as. However what you just said is not how you are using this thread.

I honestly have no idea what you're talking about.

You made this thread so you could destroy other peoples arguments. I did not know this at first. I did not know this because you disguised this thread as an honest question. I have been pointing this out. You either disagree with my assertion and or are confused. Because you tell me you do not understand i am compelled to respond.

See, that's much more clear, now I know what you're talking about. And no, I disagree. I made this thread for several reasons:
1. I wanted to see what the fine people of the Escapist would choose, and in what percent (hence the poll and not poisoning the well with the OP).
2. I wanted to see if someone would bring in an argument I hadn't thought of.
3. I wanted to test my arguments on others to see if they held up.
4. I wanted to show a friend of mine exactly how people disagree with this scenario (he could barely believe anyone would say no).
5. I wanted to see if my counter-arguments held up.

Also, this thread does ask an honest question, I fail to see how it is dishonest.

 

[JaceArveduin]

So... It's the Lifelight system thing from Veelox? My paranoia is telling me to pass on this one.

I mean, seriously, my brain could come up with some horrible ways to die...

...What?
The machine makes you maximally happy, that's it.

http://pendragon.wikia.com/wiki/Lifelight

I think this little thing might explain all of the mysteries.

So what's the problem? So what if the world crubles as a result, those who are still alive will live with perfect happiness until the end of their days.

That's what the machine's original purpose is, but an enterprising individual could, say, write a 'reality' bug that messes up the system so that it kills you in gruesome ways. Or as a means to take over the world.

Honestly, not really a problem, just more of a design flaw.

 

[Arakasi]

So... It's the Lifelight system thing from Veelox? My paranoia is telling me to pass on this one.

I mean, seriously, my brain could come up with some horrible ways to die...

...What?
The machine makes you maximally happy, that's it.

http://pendragon.wikia.com/wiki/Lifelight

I think this little thing might explain all of the mysteries.

So what's the problem? So what if the world crubles as a result, those who are still alive will live with perfect happiness until the end of their days.

That's what the machine's original purpose is, but an enterprising individual could, say, write a 'reality' bug that messes up the system so that it kills you in gruesome ways. Or as a means to take over the world.

Honestly, not really a problem, just more of a design flaw.

Well not really, considering that would break the scenario, and defeats the purpose of the hypothetical.

 

[Excelsior789]

I definitely would plug in. A lifetime of happiness tailored to my own definition of happiness? yes. definitely.

Thing is that it would not nessecarily be talored to your own definition of happiness. It would be tailored to the scientific definition of happiness, based upon what your brain would enjoy most. Close, but not quite the same. One can have delusions about what they would/wouldn't enjoy.

That's a no from me. But then, happiness isn't my end goal. Mine is just to be useful and repay my debts to society before I bite it.

topic reminds me of the end of Enslaved: Odyssey to the west.

So basically you think your life is nothing but indentured servitude? That's rather a depressing outlook.

To some I suppose it would be. I consider it a privilege to be able to work off my debts in any way I see fit, it's rewarding to do so.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

well i guess that depends, everyone in my "life" in the experience machine, are they apart of my subconcious or is that other people and our brains are all hooked up to one super source?

if it is the former, no thanks, if it is the latter, then sure, it's just moving everyone onto a different plane of existence essentially.

 

[IllumInaTIma]

This whole idea reminds me of True Ending episode of Persona 4 Animation. What happens is Izanami puts Yu into some sort of dream state where he relives his last day in Inaba with all his friends. He relives this day again and again, realizing that all of that is illusion and knowing that in real life he and his friends are probably dead, until Margaret wakes him up. This is the great irony, Yu lives his dream, and yet realizes that this dream goes against everything that he and his friends fought for.
Now, I'm not Yu, but I'd definitely say no to such machine. Life isn't perfect, and the moment it becomes perfect it's not perfect anymore, no matter how ridiculous it may sound.

 

[Akytalusia]

no, other. it'd be pointless. if it kept me alive, and made me experience any form of consciousness, then it would fail. happiness for me is nonexistence.