Poll: The Latest AC controversy

[Daystar Clarion]

The British are some of history's worst tyrants. You can't keep hiding your past behind Shakespeare and proper pronunciation. I don't mind if they get their asses kicked a little bit.

*looks at avatar*


I bet you're completely unbiased

Oh come on, the British Empire spent entire centuries stomping all over the globe, gleefully wrecking everybody's shit, to the degree that there is a direct correlation between being a third world country and a former British colony (except for the US and Australia, but they both benefited from being as far away from Britian as possible).

And that's not even taking into account the British Empire's penchant for dropping settlers into hostile environments and sitting idly by while they go batshit insane and torture, enslave and/or massacre the local populace.

I never said the British were saints

But neither were the Americans.

 

[Heeman89]

I really don't see the big problem here, To me the only trailer that has been really OVER the top in American butt kissing was the July 4th but I am giving that one a pass simply for the date (come on what better way to kill your sales then by showing a bunch of Americans getting killed on the 4th of July) Yeah so the other trailers seemed to be taking the side of the rebels but I seriously have had some thoughts about the end of the cinematic trailer, the expression on Mr Washington's face just makes me feel like there is an "oh shit I hope he doesn't know what is really going on" thought going through his mind, and we already know that

Spoiler

Mr Washington was in possession of an Apple at some point during his lifetime

so honestly, I think it's this:

I think they're playing up killing the Brits so when the rebels turn out to be Templars it'll be more surprising.

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

The British are some of history's worst tyrants. You can't keep hiding your past behind Shakespeare and proper pronunciation. I don't mind if they get their asses kicked a little bit.

*looks at avatar*


I bet you're completely unbiased

Oh come on, the British Empire spent entire centuries stomping all over the globe, gleefully wrecking everybody's shit, to the degree that there is a direct correlation between being a third world country and a former British colony (except for the US and Australia, but they both benefited from being as far away from Britian as possible).

And that's not even taking into account the British Empire's penchant for dropping settlers into hostile environments and sitting idly by while they go batshit insane and torture, enslave and/or massacre the local populace.

I never said the British were saints

But neither were the Americans.

Nobody's a Saint.

But what hacks me off is that a German would never have the gall to complain if Nazis were portrayed in a bad light, using the excuse "the Allies were no saints either!"
There'd be no "controversy" if AC3 was set in WW2 but it was biased in favour of the Allies.

Yet the Nazis failed to accomplish what the British Empire spent centuries happily doing: purging and exploiting all foreigners. The British killed far more people, invaded and ruined far more countries, and had an equally (if not greater) attitude of malicious xenophobia than the Nazis did. Yet the Germans as a nation feel shame for what they did, and the English feel pride.

Having pride in one's own evil deeds is the very definition of villainy.
So I submit to you, that you are in fact, my British friend, a villain.
Look deep inside yourself. You know it to be true.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

The British are some of history's worst tyrants. You can't keep hiding your past behind Shakespeare and proper pronunciation. I don't mind if they get their asses kicked a little bit.

*looks at avatar*


I bet you're completely unbiased

Oh come on, the British Empire spent entire centuries stomping all over the globe, gleefully wrecking everybody's shit, to the degree that there is a direct correlation between being a third world country and a former British colony (except for the US and Australia, but they both benefited from being as far away from Britian as possible).

And that's not even taking into account the British Empire's penchant for dropping settlers into hostile environments and sitting idly by while they go batshit insane and torture, enslave and/or massacre the local populace.

I never said the British were saints

But neither were the Americans.

Nobody's a Saint.

But what hacks me off is that a German would never have the gall to complain if Nazis were portrayed in a bad light, using the excuse "the Allies were no saints either!"
There'd be no "controversy" if AC3 was set in WW2 but it was biased in favour of the Allies.

Yet the Nazis failed to accomplish what the British Empire spent centuries happily doing: purging and exploiting all foreigners. The British killed far more people, invaded and ruined far more countries, and had an equally (if not greater) attitude of malicious xenophobia than the Nazis did. Yet the Germans as a nation feel shame for what they did, and the English feel pride.

Having pride in one's own evil deeds is the very definition of villainy.
So I submit to you, that you are in fact, my British friend, a villain.
Look deep inside yourself. You know it to be true.

Nobody feels pride for the terrible things the Empire did, instead we feel pride for the good things it achieved, you know, like the Industrial Revolution.

Also, not to defending it or anything, but everyone in Europe was attempting to do the same thing at that time. I'm not one for judging people of the past by today's standards, sure, the British Empire did a lot of awful shit, but it could have just as easily been the French Empire, or The Spanish Empire.

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

Nobody's a Saint.

But what hacks me off is that a German would never have the gall to complain if Nazis were portrayed in a bad light, using the excuse "the Allies were no saints either!"
There'd be no "controversy" if AC3 was set in WW2 but it was biased in favour of the Allies.

Yet the Nazis failed to accomplish what the British Empire spent centuries happily doing: purging and exploiting all foreigners. The British killed far more people, invaded and ruined far more countries, and had an equally (if not greater) attitude of malicious xenophobia than the Nazis did. Yet the Germans as a nation feel shame for what they did, and the English feel pride.

Having pride in one's own evil deeds is the very definition of villainy.
So I submit to you, that you are in fact, my British friend, a villain.
Look deep inside yourself. You know it to be true.

Nobody feels pride for the terrible things the Empire did, instead we feel pride for the good things it achieved, you know, like the Industrial Revolution.

Also, not to defending it or anything, but everyone in Europe was attempting to do the same thing at that time. I'm not one for judging people of the past by today's standards, sure, the British Empire did a lot of awful shit, but it could have just as easily been the French Empire, or The Spanish Empire.

You can't be selective like that. The British aren't used to feeling shame, because they wrote all the history books and did a lot of philosophical acrobatics to justify their own actions. In fact, the entire field of anthropology (a subject I hold a degree in) was basically founded by the British Empire (and the French) to prove to themselves that the natives are "primitive savages" which are no different than livestock, really.

The point is, the British were never subject to the scrutiny of popular opinion. They never beared any kind of national shame like the Germans did. And, of course, Germany had plenty of extenuating circumstances that the British Empire didn't. Germany was a broken, desolate country on the way to ruin (due mostly to the fact that every other country preferred to punish Germany for World War 1, rather than accept the fact that it was a sad, pointless war), before the Nazis stepped in and essentially saved it.

And the Nazis accomplished a hell of a lot. They took a country that was so poverty-stricken and defeated that you had to take a wheelbarrow of devalued money to the local store to buy groceries, and in twenty years they built it up into a superpower capable of holding its own against the world.

But no German is allowed to be proud of that.
Yet the British, they get to select the good parts of their history, and be proud of that, and ignore the very large sections of horrifying brutality.
And I find that very unfair.

So I don't think there can be enough games, movies and books to remind the Brits of their villainous past. If they're going to try so hard to forget it, especially.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Between Tomb Raider, Mass Effect and this, I really don't care anymore. I got behind the Mass Effect movement, but I am just so sick of controversy in every single game. "Oh this game is xenophobic." "Oh, this game is racist." "Oh this game is sexist" I JUST WANT TO PLAY MY FREAKING VIDEO GAME! God, I am just sick of all the fucking drama.

I agree with you

The British are some of history's worst tyrants. You can't keep hiding your past behind Shakespeare and proper pronunciation. I don't mind if they get their asses kicked a little bit.

Lol, no. Do some research on the various leaders that have and still do order and engage in literal genocide. England is very far down the list, friend.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

Nobody's a Saint.

But what hacks me off is that a German would never have the gall to complain if Nazis were portrayed in a bad light, using the excuse "the Allies were no saints either!"
There'd be no "controversy" if AC3 was set in WW2 but it was biased in favour of the Allies.

Yet the Nazis failed to accomplish what the British Empire spent centuries happily doing: purging and exploiting all foreigners. The British killed far more people, invaded and ruined far more countries, and had an equally (if not greater) attitude of malicious xenophobia than the Nazis did. Yet the Germans as a nation feel shame for what they did, and the English feel pride.

Having pride in one's own evil deeds is the very definition of villainy.
So I submit to you, that you are in fact, my British friend, a villain.
Look deep inside yourself. You know it to be true.

Nobody feels pride for the terrible things the Empire did, instead we feel pride for the good things it achieved, you know, like the Industrial Revolution.

Also, not to defending it or anything, but everyone in Europe was attempting to do the same thing at that time. I'm not one for judging people of the past by today's standards, sure, the British Empire did a lot of awful shit, but it could have just as easily been the French Empire, or The Spanish Empire.

You can't be selective like that. The British aren't used to feeling shame, because they wrote all the history books and did a lot of philosophical acrobatics to justify their own actions. In fact, the entire field of anthropology (a subject I hold a degree in) was basically founded by the British Empire (and the French) to prove to themselves that the natives are "primitive savages" which are no different than livestock, really.

The point is, the British were never subject to the scrutiny of popular opinion. They never beared any kind of national shame like the Germans did. And, of course, Germany had plenty of extenuating circumstances that the British Empire didn't. Germany was a broken, desolate country on the way to ruin (due mostly to the fact that every other country preferred to punish Germany for World War 1, rather than accept the fact that it was a sad, pointless war), before the Nazis stepped in and essentially saved it.

And the Nazis accomplished a hell of a lot. They took a country that was so poverty-stricken and defeated that you had to take a wheelbarrow of devalued money to the local store to buy groceries, and in twenty years they built it up into a superpower capable of holding its own against the world.

But no German is allowed to be proud of that.
Yet the British, they get to select the good parts of their history, and be proud of that, and ignore the very large sections of horrifying brutality.
And I find that very unfair.

So I don't think there can be enough games, movies and books to remind the Brits of their villainous past. If they're going to try so hard to forget it, especially.

Like I said, by the standards of the time, colonialism was standard practice.

We did awful, awful things to native populations, nobody is debating that, but by the standards of that time it was the normal thing to do.

If we're on the subject of the Nazis, their behaviour was deemed unacceptable by the standards of that time.

I know it may sound like a cop out, but that's really the only answer I can give as to why nobody really thinks about the evils of colonialism anymore, but still hates on the Nazis.

 

[Sexy Devil]

I really don't think it's all that surprising that trailers featuring predominantly revolutionaries tends to be pro-American. I mean in the one trailer we've heard Connor talk (yes, he's talked in exactly one trailer, you're all forming your opinions of his position based on trailers where he doesn't even have an opinion) he was clearly having doubts. Personally I think this is 100% the marketing department trying to create an easy villain just to minimise confusion. In every AC to date the trailers have all explicitly vilified one specific side when the actual games are much more complex than that.

And if not (which I doubt), hey, now you British folk know how Russians/Middle Easterners/Central-South Americans feel.

Also my Captcha is asking me a really tough question, I need some help. Which is smaller - Russia or a cabbage?

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

Like I said, by the standards of the time, colonialism was standard practice.

We did awful, awful things to native populations, nobody is debating that, but by the standards of that time it was the normal thing to do.

If we're on the subject of the Nazis, their behaviour was deemed unacceptable by the standards of that time.

I know it may sound like a cop out, but that's really the only answer I can give as to why nobody really thinks about the evils of colonialism anymore, but still hates on the Nazis.

What do you mean "standard practice"? Sure, colonial expansionist empires like the British, Spanish, Dutch and French expanded a lot. That hardly excuses anything. I mean, there weren't any Indian colonies, or Irish colonies, or Afghan colonies. That's exactly what I mean by the English writing the history books: "Ah, it wasn't that big a deal, sure we all did it!" No... not the many many people being oppressed.

And there was plenty of discussions of "why we should stop doing this" at the time. Hell, the reason America isn't called Columbusland is because Columbus got really bad PR from how he treated the locals and the Spanish King had to play down his role in things (and he eventually was arrested for "tyranny").

And if you want to pull the "oh it happened ages ago" card, that won't fly either. The influence of the British Empire is still felt today. I mean, the UK only just relinquished control of Hong Kong to China in 1997!

 

[Luke3184]

And the Nazis accomplished a hell of a lot. They took a country that was so poverty-stricken and defeated that you had to take a wheelbarrow of devalued money to the local store to buy groceries, and in twenty years they built it up into a superpower capable of holding its own against the world.

Hitler was in total dominance from 1933 - 1945 (roughly), the financial recovery was primarily based off of policies operated by the Weimar before Hitler's take over. Germany's employment rate was based off of the fact that a hefty chunk of the population weren't considered 'people' and generally ended up dead or in camps. I won't go into the extensive and tedious details here but Hitler fired his only competent finance adviser in 1935 and replaced him with Goering who was distinctly incompetent as was the rest of his department. The economy was pretty much strained beyond reason and was not in any way prepared for the war Hitler entered into. This was hidden originally by the Blitzkreig but became significantly more prominent as time went on.

On the topic of the British being evil due to 'pride' over the Empire... Well it's not really comparable to Nazi Germany. During the period that The Empire was founded it was pretty much a case of build an Empire or die. It can be, successfully, argued that the British Empire was the sole reason England is still floating around today. The pride thing is bullshit too, considering the sheer amount of cash we pour into the 'guilt' funds to ex-colonies that retain a socially acceptable government. I mean India has actually told us that we don't need to give them more money and we have insist.

OT: I'm pretty much beyond caring about game controversy...

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

On the topic of the British being evil due to 'pride' over the Empire... Well it's not really comparable to Nazi Germany. During the period that The Empire was founded it was pretty much a case of build an Empire or die. It can be, successfully, argued that the British Empire was the sole reason England is still floating around today. The pride thing is bullshit too, considering the sheer amount of cash we pour into the 'guilt' funds to ex-colonies that retain a socially acceptable government. I mean India has actually told us that we don't need to give them more money and we have insist.

Oh, England needed to brutally oppress half the world to survive? Is that right? I literally have no idea what to say to that.

And what, the government pays other countries sorry money, so you don't have to give it a second thought?
None of this gives you the right to complain when the British are vilified in games or movies, I'm afraid.

 

[TheTim]

Who cares what side you're on or what the bias is, its a game, enjoy it, and if you are so against killing your own nationality, then don't play it, and don't ***** about it.

 

[Luke3184]

On the topic of the British being evil due to 'pride' over the Empire... Well it's not really comparable to Nazi Germany. During the period that The Empire was founded it was pretty much a case of build an Empire or die. It can be, successfully, argued that the British Empire was the sole reason England is still floating around today. The pride thing is bullshit too, considering the sheer amount of cash we pour into the 'guilt' funds to ex-colonies that retain a socially acceptable government. I mean India has actually told us that we don't need to give them more money and we have insist.

Oh, England needed to brutally oppress half the world to survive? Is that right? I literally have no idea what to say to that.

And what, the government pays other countries sorry money, so you don't have to give it a second thought?
None of this gives you the right to complain when the British are vilified in games or movies, I'm afraid.

I think you may have dramatically missed the point... My argument was that building an Empire was the logical thing to do for Britain within the context of the time period and that you comparison between the Empire and Nazi Germany was flawed. In relation to the topic at hand, I believe that the primary issue is that Ubisoft said there would be no bias and that there were Templars on both sides of the conflict. However the trailers released so far have been purely 'America fuck yeah' rather than the more morally dubious approach that was originally promised.

 

[Bill Nye the Zombie]

Of course they will vilify the British. To be honest, it annoys me how the Americans describe British rule as something that was 'Slavery and tyranny'. I certainly expect an American developer to be making an American-centric game. Hell, they'll probably have the rebels as saints while the Redcoats burn children in churches, etc.

To be fair, Banastre Tarleton would do that. That's who the British general guy who was played by Jason Isaacs in the Patriot was modeled after.

I really hope that we have missions where we help the Patriots and then turn around and help the Redcoats. Like we could say, Washington's a good guy, so was Howe and Cornwallis, but Lee is a Templar, and we have to stop him. That would account for him always wanting to replace Washington.

Also, is this game just going to stay in the New England area for the whole game, or are we going to move to the Southern colonies at some point?

 

[SpectacularWebHead]

AC have never done an assassin of one nation during wartime between two countries, but they're handling the game as they would if it were any other war between any two countries. Most non retarded british people can acknowledge that the british empire fucked up most of the world in ways that we still see now, and that it was pretty much the evil empire of it's time. AC3 isn't racist-

*See's that Limited edition is only available in america*

Those racist bastards.

 

[Blunderboy]

I'm sure I'll still play the game but I'm really hoping that you have enemies and allies on both dies of the conflict, given that it divided families.
But I wouldn?t be too surprised about it if we did end up being evil.
Why?
Because Ubisoft is French, and those guys are dicks.

 

[Cheesepower5]

The E3 trailer was fucking retarded, I mean it might've been fine if they left out the eagle and made it look less like 300.

The new one's patriotic, but at least it kind of capture's that "why empires suck and rebels are cool" feel we're accustomed to. It's not downright idiotic.