Regardless of whether the man is mentally handicapped or not, he's clearly rooted to the spot with his hands in the air. Probably disobeying the cop somehow but that does not warrant a freakin' taser.
Poll: The Officer Who Tased a Handicapped Person?
- Thread starter Kombatkid123
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Given that the 9th District has ruled that there need be a strong government interest defined as 'as defined by the opinion requires the suspect pose an immediate threat to the officer or some other person to justify using an ECD', wouldn't attempting to walk behind them be a more appropriate action? Hell, even mace would've been more appropriate.Eri said:
Guys talking shit about the cameraman: I don't think he actually wanted the officer to tase the man, as demonstrated by the fact that he confronted the officer the moment he did it. I think he just used very poor diction. "Hope" was not the right word to use in that situation. It would've been better to say something along the lines of, "I'm anticipating him getting tased. If he does, this is going straight to Youtube," or, "If that cop tases him, I'll have this video as evidence that the man had his hands up."
Of course, that may be me just giving him the benefit of the doubt; he very well may have just been a douche.
Anyways.
I myself am angry on principle at the video. As others have said, being mentally handicapped doesn't mean you can't be a physical threat, but at the same time, the guy had his hands up the whole time. He wasn't a threat.
Of course, that may be me just giving him the benefit of the doubt; he very well may have just been a douche.
Anyways.
I myself am angry on principle at the video. As others have said, being mentally handicapped doesn't mean you can't be a physical threat, but at the same time, the guy had his hands up the whole time. He wasn't a threat.
What is a mentally handicaped person going to do?
Tard at him?/endwhateverthisis
I think it was a bit excessive, but I don't think he bought himself a ticket to hell.
Tard at him?/endwhateverthisis
I think it was a bit excessive, but I don't think he bought himself a ticket to hell.
I'm assuming you've never been tased or sprayed. I would take a taser any day, over the misery that is being maced/oc sprayed. Also, even if the officer had had room to walk around, there's no guarantee the officer wouldn't get a struggle then either, after all, he's already shown he's willing to ignore police orders.Dags90 said:
I have ranted on this time and time again.
I won't do it again but in short: Police need to be trained that a taser is only to be used in situations where a firearm is permitted, in response to a lethal force of equal value. That is what they where designed for, a less then lethal option instead of a firearm, and even the company produces them will not label them as non-lethal. However, Police are being trained to believe these weapons are non-lethal and that it is alright to use them in any situation... this is clearly poor training of police offices.
All I can say on the matter is: Tasers are not meant to be used to torture someone into obeying an order. If you somehow believe otherwise, then you are being immoral and justifying the use of torture. That is the biggest thing that pisses me off about the whole mess, how many people are willing to shrug and say 'he should of obeyed' without even considering we have allowed torture to take place.
Most times simply because the cop has a bruised ego that someone insulted him.
Caption: eausefe recruited
To pissed by the topic to even make a joke of the caption
I won't do it again but in short: Police need to be trained that a taser is only to be used in situations where a firearm is permitted, in response to a lethal force of equal value. That is what they where designed for, a less then lethal option instead of a firearm, and even the company produces them will not label them as non-lethal. However, Police are being trained to believe these weapons are non-lethal and that it is alright to use them in any situation... this is clearly poor training of police offices.
All I can say on the matter is: Tasers are not meant to be used to torture someone into obeying an order. If you somehow believe otherwise, then you are being immoral and justifying the use of torture. That is the biggest thing that pisses me off about the whole mess, how many people are willing to shrug and say 'he should of obeyed' without even considering we have allowed torture to take place.
Most times simply because the cop has a bruised ego that someone insulted him.
Caption: eausefe recruited
To pissed by the topic to even make a joke of the caption
In this case though:
Got to like the way the cop tasers a surrender man, then start to kick him with orders of 'don't move' while the guy is writhing in pain... as if anyone can lay still while being tasered.
Got to like the way the cop tasers a surrender man, then start to kick him with orders of 'don't move' while the guy is writhing in pain... as if anyone can lay still while being tasered.
It also would've taken all of 10 seconds to find that out. Opportunity cost of trying to walk around someone who is just standing there with their hands up vs. going straight for the taser? It's 10 seconds of walking around someone who has their hands up.Eri said:
It isn't about what's pleasant, it's about what's most likely to cause lasting damage.
Unfortunately ideal solutions are not always viable. "Ideally" the guy would have listened in the first place. I live near a county that tases after the 2nd order if they don't comply immediately. It's in their policy as well as covered by law. As long as they're covered, humans will always take the path of least resistance. Tasing, in this case.Dags90 said:
There are other lethal threats then firearms out there, which is what tasers where designed to deal with. Situations where you will need a reliable medium to close range weapon to deal with armed suspects capable of violently resisting in close to mid-range situations. So ok, I will let you down grade from lethal to intermediate but that still changes nothing in this case.
Every police officer should be familiar with the Use of Force Continuum table. This table is the response to force given in all situations. Even if you downgrade a taster to a intermediate weapon (such as a baton) then this is still ILLEGAL. You are only allowed to use 'soft' tactics against non-violent resisters.
In this case the correct response would be been to keep it verbal until backup arrived. This man fell someone between compliant and non-violent resisting, clearly in the green zone of the charts which means all the police office was able to do was threats of further charges and possible escalation of force. The furthers they could go in this situation was subdue the man with the lower end of the yellow spectrum, which is hand-cuffs and pressure holds.
Best to stick to green and blue in this case, waiting till back-up arrived so you could probably secure the man safely.
PS: if you pull one of these charts up and take a look you will notice a blue circle all the way around... this is because the action of 'wait and observe' is always considered a correct action in any situation. Maybe not the smartest in lethal ones, but always correct because you can always wait for backup to further de-escalate a situation.
This was one such case where wait for back up while keeping an eye on the man was the correct response... intermediate force was WAY over the top.
Every police officer should be familiar with the Use of Force Continuum table. This table is the response to force given in all situations. Even if you downgrade a taster to a intermediate weapon (such as a baton) then this is still ILLEGAL. You are only allowed to use 'soft' tactics against non-violent resisters.
In this case the correct response would be been to keep it verbal until backup arrived. This man fell someone between compliant and non-violent resisting, clearly in the green zone of the charts which means all the police office was able to do was threats of further charges and possible escalation of force. The furthers they could go in this situation was subdue the man with the lower end of the yellow spectrum, which is hand-cuffs and pressure holds.
Best to stick to green and blue in this case, waiting till back-up arrived so you could probably secure the man safely.
PS: if you pull one of these charts up and take a look you will notice a blue circle all the way around... this is because the action of 'wait and observe' is always considered a correct action in any situation. Maybe not the smartest in lethal ones, but always correct because you can always wait for backup to further de-escalate a situation.
This was one such case where wait for back up while keeping an eye on the man was the correct response... intermediate force was WAY over the top.
Ten seconds is a pretty long time when dealing with someone who could potentially turn violent (as the person involved with law enforcement above stated, simply refusing police instruction, even passively, is still putting up resistance), if you've ever been involved in a fight in the street then you'd know that it takes less than a second for someone to throw a punch at you or attempt to grab or trip you (or in my case, to swing a palmed rock at your eye).Dags90 said:
A taser isn't very pleasant, granted, but it will leave no lasting damage and if the person who was shocked didn't want that to happen then they should have complied (if a police officer is telling you to do something, regardless of what he's pointing at you, then the best thing to do is comply, that way they have no need to use force).
That's an EXTREMELY dangerous road to tread. I'm sorry, but cops are just as fallible as anyone else and while that's understandable as they're still human beings, just wearing a badge does not give you the right to physically assault someone. As has already been stated, we don't really know the whole story from this video, so there may have been more going on, but going with just the situation presented here, there were MANY other ways of dealing with the situation besides hitting the guy with a taser. Like, walking around him for starters.Jodah said:
I've dealt with cops before, some who were upstanding, lawful citizens who just wanted to serve and protect. I've also seen some who get given a badge, gun, and taser and start being absolute assholes because they now have a modicum of power.
While I don't believe that people should be belligerent or asinine to police just for shits and giggles, being given a badge doesn't magically make you better than other people, and police officers have a responsibility to force themselves to be better people. The cop in this video doesn't seem to have done that. And if nothing else, as citizens we have the responsibility to stand up to police who are just using their badge to push people around. If we don't, we'd be no better off than some of the police states in Africa and the Middle East.
TL;DR: Very untrue, Jodah. It applies just as much to cops as governments. "People should not be afraid of their governments, governments should be afraid of their people." We have the right to stand up to a police officer when they don't seem to be doing the right thing and, so long as we stay non-violent and non-threatening, we shouldn't have to be afraid of getting tased or shot(!)in response.
Theres a time and place for that. When a cop is asking you to turn around in a public place with a taser pointed at you you really shouldn't be arguing. If its a back alley and the cop is shouting racist comments at you then sure, fight back. There was clearly a reason he had his taser drawn in the first place. No cop, no matter how corrupt he may be, draws his taser in a public place without cause.WyndWalker02 said:
What it was doesn't matter, what it is at the moment does.ravensheart18 said:
This guy could of been armed and thrown away his weapon, which is very unlikely given the location and actions of the people involved. At the that time, theoretically, he has moved from lethal to non-violent resistance. The response therefore has to change as well, matching the new situation, and can not be used to justify torture.
Handcuff was the maximum use of force allowed in this situation.
Eri might be right that approaching from the front is not advised but that doesn't mean you can escalate the situation. The correct response is still the blue line on the charts: WAIT FOR BACKUP! Though green line could of been used to, by all means you can keep yelling at them if it makes you feel better.
It's ridiculous how the cameraman is chanting for the officer to tase the guy, and then goes outside saying he knows him. If you have a mentally handicapped friend who's in the process of being stared down by a police officer, you would think most people would attempt to help said friend, rather than pray for him to be tasered.