Poll: The 'Real' Man Debate

[EclipseoftheDarkSun]

Now that we've resolved what makes a real man, it's time for the next question - What can change the nature of a man?

 

[Calibanbutcher]

A man should listen to Manowar... that is all.

This took way too long to be posted.

 

[00slash00]

real men do what makes them happy. real women do the same thing. its your body

 

[AngloDoom]

There are plenty of straight women who are attracted to men who buck gender roles.

Agreed. Masculinity is, thankfully, becoming a lot for of a redundant term with time. The most sought-after guy in my college was a thin, long-haired, clean-pretty-faced guy who occasionally wore eye-liner. All the girls joked how he was metrosexual even while they tried to jump him. Hell, one of my closest friends is stereotypically gay in all but the voice and he frequently has to reject women.

 

[BroJing]

Agreed. Masculinity is, thankfully, becoming a lot for of a redundant term with time.

Is it something to be thankful for? Don't get me wrong, the borish stereotype of the muscular jock leaning on those weaker then him is something to be avoided but that doesn't mean everything inherently masculine should be got rid of.

I like having my beard and being able to work with my hands. I also like dressing mostly in clothes that are practical rather then fashionable. Does this mean I think the topic poster should stop wearing eyeliner and straightening his hair? No, go nuts if that's what you want but I think there will always be some room for the traditional masculine role.

(Traditional in this context refers to the last two hundred years or so, skipping the Georgians,Stuarts and Tudors and popping back up in the early middle ages.)

 

[zumbledum]

Recently I have been in a debate with family and friends over how men should/shouldn't act/dress. This mainly started with my family when I started dying/straitening my hair and focusing more on my appearance. Now the official debate started when my mom found out (through conversations) I wore eyeliner and shaved most of my body hair. She started saying how 'real' men shouldn't shave and should not wear make-up.

So I suppose my question is, do 'real' men care about their looks, or do they not? What are your thoughts and opinions on this?

i call for solidarity and union on this issue!

we men should remain MEN , hairy coarse and NO make up!

my reasons are simple pure and undeniable. simply look at the amount of crap women go through with waxing shaving make up perfuming dying straitening curling etc etc etc. do we really want to be arsed with that?

we dont know how good we have it, shower maybe shave quick squirt of deodorant and we are out the door. if its casual jeans and a shirt of any variety neeed to look smart we can go for teh suit. who in their right minds would f with this?

 

[Legion]

A real man does what they want with their own body. It's nobody else's business.

That's my take on the matter.

Input geek quote: "A man chooses, a slave obeys."

 

[Queen Michael]

So if you're a man you can't take care of yourself? Tell the old girl this: You are a man, so anything you do is, by definition, what a man does. Maybe she doesn't like it when men shave their body hair and all that ahir, but that's just her personal opinion and not exactly some scientific fact.

 

[Spinozaad]

A real man claims his place in the world.

I personally think you should look like a young Sean Connery while claiming your place, though. I have no sympathy for these 'girly boys' (I refuse to call them men). You don't have to be 40's/50's/60's sexist in order to be 40's/50's/60's awesome.

-Edit before the PC-flame Brigade jumps all over this-

I simply cannot take feminine males seriously. I do equate "traditional" traits with competence, confidence and skill. This entire concept of men having to use skin masks and hair/skin care products beyond shampoo, soap and deodorant (excluding those necessary for medical reasons) are no men at all. They're wimps, pussies and, in my eyes, horribly lacking in self-confidence.

 

[AngloDoom]

Agreed. Masculinity is, thankfully, becoming a lot for of a redundant term with time.

Is it something to be thankful for? Don't get me wrong, the borish stereotype of the muscular jock leaning on those weaker then him is something to be avoided but that doesn't mean everything inherently masculine should be got rid of.

I like having my beard and being able to work with my hands. I also like dressing mostly in clothes that are practical rather then fashionable. Does this mean I think the topic poster should stop wearing eyeliner and straightening his hair? No, go nuts if that's what you want but I think there will always be some room for the traditional masculine role.

(Traditional in this context refers to the last two hundred years or so, skipping the Georgians,Stuarts and Tudors and popping back up in the early middle ages.)

I imagine you didn't grow a beard because you felt it was manly, but because you thought it would suit your face? Similarly, I imagine you didn't become capable in practical tasks simply because that's what men are supposed to do?

I see nothing wrong with the things that are held up as 'masculine traits', but I do have a problem that they are considered a check-list of positive traits and that not having the correct level of masculinity is considered a negative thing. The ability to cook was considered a feminine trait until very recently in some cultures and is still considered feminine in others: this means that my ability to do something I love to do would be get me labelled as less attractive in some people's eyes despite it being something I consider a practical skill.

Again, I enjoy 'masculine' things such as martial arts, manual labour, exercising, drinking, etc, but I dislike the idea that some people have to have these traits because of their genitalia. Women and men should be equally praised for their ability to work well with their hands and fix a practical problem, rather than it being simply an expected characteristic of men.

Not sure if I explained that very well, so please do forgive me if I made a mess of that.

I simply cannot take feminine males seriously. I do equate "traditional" traits with competence, confidence and skill. This entire concept of men having to use skin masks and hair/skin care products beyond shampoo, soap and deodorant (excluding those necessary for medical reasons) are no men at all. They're wimps, pussies and, in my eyes, horribly lacking in self-confidence.

I hope you don't mind me asking you to expand on your comment there, but I'm interested in your view on the following points:

- What if a man is highly capable in practical tasks, but looks feminine? Does this shift your view of him?
- Do you believe women who use similar cosmetic products such as make-up are also "horribly lacking in self-confidence"?
- What do you think of men who take time trimming/styling their beard, or going to the gym? I would consider these on-par with applying make-up and face-masks and I'm interested in what you think of them.

Again, I come in peace, I'm just a curious cat.

 

[JdaS]

How come? I might be a complete idiot because that one flew clear over my head.

because its a very manly macho avatar

Might seem that way. In fact it's a picture of Henry Rollins. Who, in spite of his muscular, rough appearance is not macho at all.

 

[Spinozaad]

I hope you don't mind me asking you to expand on your comment there, but I'm interested in your view on the following points:

- What if a man is highly capable in practical tasks, but looks feminine? Does this shift your view of him?
- Do you believe women who use similar cosmetic products such as make-up are also "horribly lacking in self-confidence"?
- What do you think of men who take time trimming/styling their beard, or going to the gym? I would consider these on-par with applying make-up and face-masks and I'm interested in what you think of them.

Again, I come in peace, I'm just a curious cat.

I don't mind, valid questions.

1. Too hypothetical to honestly answer. I simply don't know guys who dress feminine (skinny jeans, shaving all their facial and body hair, who wear makeup, etc.) and who are skilled in practical things.
2. I actually do. I prefer females with a 'vanilla' approach towards their appearance.
3. I don't agree with your equation, but I don't care much for people who sport other than health reasons/trying to get or maintain a healthy physique. I am aware that this is underpinned by an arbitrary notion of what constitutes a 'healthy physique' that knows no exact boundary. There's a huge grey zone between 'huge lardass' and 'crazy body builder', and I prefer my people in that grey zone.

 

[irishmanwithagun]

Recently I have been in a debate with family and friends over how men should/shouldn't act/dress. This mainly started with my family when I started dying/straitening my hair and focusing more on my appearance. Now the official debate started when my mom found out (through conversations) I wore eyeliner and shaved most of my body hair. She started saying how 'real' men shouldn't shave and should not wear make-up.

So I suppose my question is, do 'real' men care about their looks, or do they not? What are your thoughts and opinions on this?

Answering in general first... You have the wrong question.

Yes, men should care about their looks.

However, making yourself look more like a girl is not the way a "real man" would take care of his looks. A man should be trying to look more masculine, not more feminine.

Now the exception to this rule is if you are gay/bi. If you are also looking to attract men then it may be totally appropriate and manly to make yourself look more feminine as many gay men are attracted to fem guys.

To the specifics of your case, I think eyeliner looks stupid on men, but then I don't like a lot on women either. Certainly in THIS culture eyeliner is for women, but that has changed over time (in ancient egypt for example men wore it). It's sort of like the kilt/skirt thing, what is feminine depends on the culture, and culture does change.

Shaving your body hair. Sorry, that's VERY feminine. Women have less and finer body hair then men naturally. You are excentuating a female attribute and thus you look more feminine. Yes, people can link big body builders with no chest hair, still makes you look more feminine than you otherwise would, especially if you don't have HUGE muscles that you are trying to display.

I think you'll find homosexual preferences in men to be as various in men as they are with heterosexual preferences in women.

Obviously. Tha's why I many (although I should have said some, many could have been misread) and not all.

I'd say that a "real man" would do what they feel comfortable doing. If they like maintaining their appearance then they should do that, if they don't then they shouldn't, it's a massively complicated issue that affects all of us so why do people have to make such a big deal about this?

I agree it isn't a big deal. But a "manly man", which is usually understood the same as "real man" means boosting your masculinity and not femininity. Nothing wrong with people dressing/primping themselves however they like though.

I always thought it was more "manly" in its own way to "risk" said manliness. You know, the "the honourable man forsakes his reputation" argument. Because I always thought that there was something insecure about men who have to "try" to be manly. Like the manly/macho dichotomy Yahtzee once talked about.
And I should have said "...it's NOT a massively complicated issue...", whoops.

 

[Lonewolfm16]

A real man has one x chromosome and one y chromosome. Nothing else is applicable. No not even reproductive organs a man without a reproductive organ is still a man.

 

[DoomyMcDoom]

Real men don't care what others think about their choice of style and how they do stuff... Real men do what they want how they want, and understand and accept the consequences of their actions the way they feel like it.

For instance, when I feel like putting on a suit or nice shit I do, I've gone to mcdonalds in a full suit before.
If anyone laughs at you, laugh at them, if they insult you, laugh at them, because only people who are insecure about how they themselves look/act will go out of their way to insult you for your choices, and they are sad people, and stupid, so you have every excuse to laugh in their faces.

 

[Olas]

Real men don't care how they look to others.
Real men dress the way they want, which is always in manly clothes, because real men naturally prefer manly clothes.
Real men don't groom themselves because looking nice isn't important to them.
Real men shave, but not often and only because beards are annoying.
Real men work out to keep themselves in shape for the tasks ahead not because they want to look buff.

A real man has one x chromosome and one y chromosome. Nothing else is applicable. No not even reproductive organs a man without a reproductive organ is still a man.

That's merely what it takes to be biologically male, not a real man. Don't get the two confused.

 

[Lonewolfm16]

Real men don't care how they look to others.
Real men dress the way they want, which is always in manly clothes, because real men naturally prefer manly clothes.
Real men don't groom themselves because looking nice isn't important to them.
Real men shave, but not often and only because beards are annoying.
Real men work out to keep themselves in shape for the tasks ahead not because they want to look buff.

A real man has one x chromosome and one y chromosome. Nothing else is applicable. No not even reproductive organs a man without a reproductive organ is still a man.

That's merely what it takes to be biologically male, not a real man. Don't get the two confused.

Anything else is just a stupid and shortsited social view of how our gender should define us. Let us do away with concepts like masculine and feminine and embrace who we are without labels and without prejudice. If a man wants to care about his appearance and wear make-up ect that is no less manly than someone who does not do either of those things. Tradtional masculinity is over-rated. Be who you are and screw social stereotypes of what you are supposed to be.

 

[lee1287]

i was goign to post a thread about this.

What is a man?

i'm legally an adult, but i sure as hell don't feel or act like one.

Anyway, OT: I Shave because work maintains i do, same with my hair, same with my clothes, jeans and hoodies / t shirts.

 

[kickassfrog]

I'm not really tremendously bothered about my appearance.
Apart from the basic hygiene stuff (bathing/showering, brushing my teeth, and finding a brand of deodorant which doesn't irritate my irritatingly sensitive underarms) I generally tend to not concern myself with it too much.
I tend to dress more for comfort (so T shirt and jeans, boots, occasionally a shirt/t-shirt combo) because that's how I feel most comfortable.
I also save for best a leather jacket that gives DR 3 (flexible) across the neck arms and torso, incidentally my attire of choice for a zombie apocalypse in the colder months.