Well, since the universe is expanding at an increasing rate it logically must be an infinitely expanding space that started at some point.
Poll: The universe.
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Awesome way of putting it.la-le-lu-li-lo said:
But I would like to echo Terry Pratchett and say: humans have always had problems with beginnings. We seem to be unable to grasp the concept of infinity and beginnings of stuff.
"Everything starts somewhere, though many physicists disagree. But people have always been dimly aware of the problem with the start of things. They wonder how the snowplough driver gets to work, or how the makers of dictionaries look up the spelling of words."
-Hogfather p. 11 (Corgi ed.)
In that spirit we also have issues wrapping our heads around a universe that always was. Personally I think it's because our own lives are so very much starting and finishing. It's so different from every experience we have that things can be forever.
Oh, and I agree; the universe is infinite and has always been. That may include The Big Bang incidentally. But in my daily life it makes little difference and I'm perfectly happy to leave it to physicists and astronomers to probe existence. But I'll follow their work in child like wonder.
I can saw nothing but thank you, thank you, & thank you again.teh_gunslinger said:Awesome way of putting it.la-le-lu-li-lo said:
But I would like to echo Terry Pratchett and say: humans have always had problems with beginnings. We seem to be unable to grasp the concept of infinity and beginnings of stuff.
"Everything starts somewhere, though many physicists disagree. But people have always been dimly aware of the problem with the start of things. They wonder how the snowplough driver gets to work, or how the makers of dictionaries look up the spelling of words."
-Hogfather p. 11 (Corgi ed.)
In that spirit we also have issues wrapping our heads around a universe that always was. Personally I think it's because our own lives are so very much starting and finishing. It's so different from every experience we have that things can be forever.
Oh, and I agree; the universe is infinite and has always been. That may include The Big Bang incidentally. But in my daily life it makes little difference and I'm perfectly happy to leave it to physicists and astronomers to probe existence. But I'll follow their work in child like wonder.
You rule. <3
And thank you too. It's always great to see that someone find my thoughts not to be completely out of order. It's a good thing on an otherwise rather crappy day.la-le-lu-li-lo said:I can saw nothing but thank you, thank you, & thank you again.teh_gunslinger said:Awesome way of putting it.la-le-lu-li-lo said:
But I would like to echo Terry Pratchett and say: humans have always had problems with beginnings. We seem to be unable to grasp the concept of infinity and beginnings of stuff.
"Everything starts somewhere, though many physicists disagree. But people have always been dimly aware of the problem with the start of things. They wonder how the snowplough driver gets to work, or how the makers of dictionaries look up the spelling of words."
-Hogfather p. 11 (Corgi ed.)
In that spirit we also have issues wrapping our heads around a universe that always was. Personally I think it's because our own lives are so very much starting and finishing. It's so different from every experience we have that things can be forever.
Oh, and I agree; the universe is infinite and has always been. That may include The Big Bang incidentally. But in my daily life it makes little difference and I'm perfectly happy to leave it to physicists and astronomers to probe existence. But I'll follow their work in child like wonder.
You rule. <3
(Though not completely crappy as I got 6 Discworld books in the mail and now I only need 1 more to have them all)
May I ask what prompted such a generous response?
I'm quite generous to those I feel deserve it. It's quite often that I post my opinion and get shot down immediately by someone who can't even spell, and then they cry about 'oh they're just mad I made a good point so they make fun of my grammar!' Not true sir, I will admit I have a hard time taking you seriously, but I do listen and if your argument is as poor as your grasp of the English language, I apologize. But it's not my fault you're failing at life right now. Sorry. If not? I'll ignore your crappy speech.teh_gunslinger said:And thank you too. It's always great to see that someone find my thoughts not to be completely out of order. It's a good thing on an otherwise rather crappy day.
(Though not completely crappy as I got 6 Discworld books in the mail and now I only need 1 more to have them all)
May I ask what prompted such a generous response?
(That was a bit rant-like, wasn't it?)
Basically, I'm glad you not only think the same as I do in regards to the subject, but I'm glad your response was well thought out and literate. It's refreshing.
Well, I found your post clear and too the point. It actually said what needed to be said. Me being me I just felt like adding my own thoughts to yours and explain why I agree.la-le-lu-li-lo said:
As I said, in my daily life it matters little how the universe (or existence or time) is set up but I do find it an interesting subject to muse about. Trouble is we lack the brains to properly discuss these subjects (or at least I do). When confronted by infinity I kinda have to approach it sideways as infinity in itself is too alien to comprehend. It's like I run out of brain to hold it. I intellectually acknowledge that infinity exist but I can't get a feel for it. It's mostly a concept and if I look at it too closely it slips away and changes. It's like, I have this brain that evolved from the need to shout when there was a lion or a banana but when it comes to explaining the cosmos it falls woefully short. And that's the case in a lot of situations. Hell, most of our education consists of telling ever more advanced lies and slowly unveiling the "truth". We construct stories and use them to make sense of the world around us, be it stories of thunder gods rolling across the sky or gods kidnapping girls and then their mothers cry and thus we have seasons. And we still do that, I think. Our stories have just gotten more advanced and less silly.
But to get back a bit on topic:
Even if there was a Big Bang I don't think that is the beginning of things. It may have been the start of what is now and it may be the first thing that ever happened but I think "existence" has always "existed", for lack of better words.
The problem with infinite space and time is that we really see the world in beginnings and ends. Our lives begin and end. Religion tells us the world begins and ends (it's a bit fuzzy on the whole eternity part), day and night is also finite. And thinking about something that has no clearly defined edges makes us uncomfortable for the most part I think. We even divided time into little bits that has a beginning and an end, be it seconds, hours, days or years. We tell stories about the world and set up limits that we then confine ourselves to in order not to be too scared of the world.
Hmm, that got a bit out of hand. Sorry.
Your post has yet again made me happy inside.teh_gunslinger said:
And I should probably admit that when I see a huge response like that it takes a lot of willpower to actually bother reading it, but yours are fun to read, and don't seem like such a pain in the ass.
Hehe. That's good at least. To tell the truth I didn't quite intend for my reply to be quite so big. But it just kinda happened. Turns out I need a lot of words to explain something simple. I blame 6 years on university for filling me with hot air!la-le-lu-li-lo said:Your post has yet again made me happy inside.
And I should probably admit that when I see a huge response like that it takes a lot of willpower to actually bother reading it, but yours are fun to read, and don't seem like such a pain in the ass.
Don't feel bad, most of my English classes included something along these lines:teh_gunslinger said:
'Alright everyone, the assignment is a paper on the symbolism of [insert book], and should be no less than two pages, but no more than five.'
*teacher looks at me* 'Except for you Katherine. I'm expecting 10 pages from you.'
*I look abashed and happy at the same time*
They were always so happy to have a student who cared, so they didn't mind grading my overtly long papers.
Especially because I ended up grading the tests. :O