Poll: There is no justifiable reason for civilians to own modern weapons.

[Sovvolf]

I don't think Civilians should be allowed access to machine guns or any fully automatic weapons unless they have a very very good reason for owning one.

 

[HotFezz8]

I own a .22

How 'modern' are we talking?

anything breech loading, your .22 would count.

 

[Socken]

Spoiler: Quote-o-rama

I find the whole idea of having to own a weapon stupid.
Seriously, what do you need a freaking shotgun for at home? If someone breaks into your house you're better off just calling the cops anyway.

no, your fucking dead long before the cops arrive.

I find the whole idea of having to own a weapon stupid.
Seriously, what do you need a freaking shotgun for at home? If someone breaks into your house you're better off just calling the cops anyway.

The police cannot be everywhere at once, and in many parts of the country, it can take up to 2 hours for the police to show up. For my house, it can take anywhere from 30 to and hour. For some people, it's just not a realistic option. By the time the police get there, the crime is already committed, and you're robbed/raped/dead/whatever.

I find the whole idea of having to own a weapon stupid.
Seriously, what do you need a freaking shotgun for at home? If someone breaks into your house you're better off just calling the cops anyway.

The police can take a long time to get their lazy asses to where you are, if they're not busy beating up innocent black men for daring to be so brown in their line of sight.

By that time, you could be dead.
Or your shit could be gone.
Better to kill them yourself.

I find the whole idea of having to own a weapon stupid.
Seriously, what do you need a freaking shotgun for at home? If someone breaks into your house you're better off just calling the cops anyway.

Haha ever called the cops in America? The response time is about 2 hours pretty much.

I find the whole idea of having to own a weapon stupid.
Seriously, what do you need a freaking shotgun for at home? If someone breaks into your house you're better off just calling the cops anyway.

Umm maybe because the police aren't reliable? average response time is what 8 minutes? somebody breaking into your house isn't going to wait 8 minutes until the cops show up. I used to have that exact same mentality until my house was broken into and I called the cops, guess what they didn't show up until the next DAY. If I hadn't have had my shotgun I use for hunting I bet I wouldn't be here typing this. Funny thing is I live 3 blocks from the Police Station, I was told "All officers are currently busy".

That's why I own a gun, because a crook ain't gonna wait for the cops to show up.

I find the whole idea of having to own a weapon stupid.
Seriously, what do you need a freaking shotgun for at home? If someone breaks into your house you're better off just calling the cops anyway.

Yep, those cops sure do a great job at identifying 5 to 6 minute old bodies.

Holy cow, 6 replies telling me how the cops don't do shit when you call them and how everyone who's ever breaking into any houses ever always has a gun and will never hesitate to kill the house owner if caught.

This leaves me thinking that either you guys are a pretty paranoid bunch or the US is worse off than I thought. I mean it might be different over there, but where I live not every burglar is also a bloodthirsty sociopathic murderer. Most housebreakings take place unarmed, and when nobody's home.

Anyway, I guess it's just a cultural thing. You're used to being allowed to have guns and use them, I'm used to guns (and use thereof) being prohibited.

 

[HotFezz8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_gun_ownership

Compare all three

See who's always in the top three.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate_to_1999
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Dead is dead. Even if there was a way to remove all guns everywhere people will still kill each other.

As I said in my earlier post, removing the rights of citizens to own firearms by making them illegal will not stop those who do not follow the laws. Even if all guns are destroyed, and all factories that manufacture them are closed, the knowledge is already out there, see Improvised Firearms.

 

[ottenni]

I have nothing wrong with people owning guns, i just have an issue with people owning guns and not being properly aware of how to use them and respect the danger that they represent.For example, if someone tells me they want a shotgun for self defense, that i don't agree with, if they want a shotgun because they think its cool and want to go out on a firing range and use it then thats fine, as long as they are safe with it (as in are clearly not going to kill someone, understand firearm safety and blah blah blah). At the same time if someone wants to buy a pistol for self defense that's fine too, as long as they understand how to use it properly for that purpose, not just point and shoot. They should have the same level of training as the police.

For an example i live in Australia and i own a gun, but first i simply had to get i licence, and that was easy. All i had to do was go to a simple seminar thingy, get told how not to kill myself and other people with it, how to use it and other types of firearms then i did a test in which all off the forty odd people in the room got 100%. And i cant see anything wrong with that, because if you failed that test, you really should not be given a gun.

 

[TxMxRonin]

I own a .22

How 'modern' are we talking?

anything breech loading, your .22 would count.

So in other words anything from the 1700s to now?

 

[Bob the Average]

there are two groups who benefit from disarming citizens thugs and tyrants. Crime is caused by social and economical problems not access to weapons look at England. they banned guns and now they're wanting to ban glass mug at bars it's just politicians trying to justify their jobs.

 

[Midnight Voyager]

Seriously, sit down right now and tell me how to reload a flintlock or a musket. I'll even be kind and give you an extra go: a wheellock. Ever touched one? Ever tried to load one yourself? It's not a bloody cakewalk. Forget having to get people training to use one, you'd have to train them much more just to remember how to load it. There are many things that can go wrong.

Modern guns are VASTLY safer than old ones. I already gave you a few reasons why. Sure, you only have one shot to accidentally shoot yourself with there, but the gun is also liable to explode in your face if you do the slightest thing wrong.

Modern weapons are fairly reliable, don't jam often, have safeties... If you're worried about accidental self-injury, keep it locked up like every responsible gun owner should be doing already.

And again: There is NO safety. Whatsoever. And people -will- leave them loaded, seeing as how it takes a long time to load them. So people would be more likely to accidentally shoot themselves or someone else with them.

Oh, know what else is a muzzle-loader?

AN OLD-FASHIONED CANNON. Juuust saying.

Know something that can defeat a muzzle-loader relatively easily? Water in the powder.

Yes, powder. Remember gunpowder? Black powder that you handle raw and have to measure into the gun before you fire it. You are handling LIVE POWDER and a flint. You actually have to take measures to, again, prevent the gun from exploding in your hands.

How are muzzle-loaders safer now...?

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

All truth be told, I'm not against gun ownership for things like pistols or hunting rifles and the like. But I cannot think of ANY conceivable reason for a person to own an assault weapon. ANY.

 

[Bob the Average]

The problem is not that we allow people to have guns. The problem is that criminals get ahold of guns illegally. They can get ahold of some of the best shit, too. Thus, as civilians, we have a right to protect ourselves from such reprobates by owning a weapon. We, in turn, make ourselves dangerous and help to deter people from commiting violent crimes upon us.

you know why it's so easy to get a hold of guns? because they can be bought in the supermarket!

Where do you get your groceries? to buy a gun you have to pass a back ground check no matter where you buy it at.

 

[Unknower]

Hunting rifles. Okay. We're not even having a discussion.

Revolvers and pistols. Errrrrrr... okay, but they should be hard to get.

Sub-machine guns, semi-automatic rifles, assault rifles, rocket launchers, flamethrowers, miniguns etc. Yeah, no.

Artillery. Okay. Like, why not? Maintenancing and using one could be really exciting activity for something like a club for example. Also, cookie to the Finn who gets the reference.

 

[HotFezz8]

I own a .22

How 'modern' are we talking?

anything breech loading, your .22 would count.

So in other words anything from the 1700s to now?

yeah, you know, anything we've spent the last 300 years making even more dangerous and lethal, to the point where there is no longer any purpose for it other than to kill.

Seriously, sit down right now and tell me how to reload a flintlock or a musket. I'll even be kind and give you an extra go: a wheellock. Ever touched one? Ever tried to load one yourself? It's not a bloody cakewalk. Forget having to get people training to use one, you'd have to train them much more just to remember how to load it. There are many things that can go wrong.

Modern guns are VASTLY safer than old ones. I already gave you a few reasons why. Sure, you only have one shot to accidentally shoot yourself with there, but the gun is also liable to explode in your face if you do the slightest thing wrong.

Modern weapons are fairly reliable, don't jam often, have safeties... If you're worried about accidental self-injury, keep it locked up like every responsible gun owner should be doing already.

And again: There is NO safety. Whatsoever. And people -will- leave them loaded, seeing as how it takes a long time to load them. So people would be more likely to accidentally shoot themselves or someone else with them.

Oh, know what else is a muzzle-loader?

AN OLD-FASHIONED CANNON. Juuust saying.

Know something that can defeat a muzzle-loader relatively easily? Water in the powder.

Yes, powder. Remember gunpowder? Black powder that you handle raw and have to measure into the gun before you fire it. You are handling LIVE POWDER and a flint. You actually have to take measures to, again, prevent the gun from exploding in your hands.

How are muzzle-loaders safer now...?

i'm aware how muzzle loaders work, hopefully if thats all people had there would be fewer weapons around full stop. seriously do people just stop reading the replies and question? or is it just lawyers now who have decided to word pick?

breech loading weapons (yes clot anything made in the last 300 years) are just designed to kill. you seem to want to sprinkle them amongst the.. oh for fuck sake just read my earlier replies.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

mainly to protect themselves from other people with guns.

 

[MelziGurl]

I've said it before, I have nothing against people owning guns so long as they are licensed to own AND use one. Licensing should be very strict also, meaning not just ANY nutjob can get one simply because they can shoot, but because mentally they are fit to have one in their possession. Gun laws should also be so strict as to prevent the vast majority of guns falling into the wrong hands.

As for gun bans being bad. Port Arthur was 15 years ago and while we did see crime rates soar BACK THEN we are still well below the U.S terms of gun crimes.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms

As to which firearms people should carry, I don't see why there is a need for more than just a basic pistol unless you use shotguns/rifles for recreation.

 

[Floppertje]

The problem is not that we allow people to have guns. The problem is that criminals get ahold of guns illegally. They can get ahold of some of the best shit, too. Thus, as civilians, we have a right to protect ourselves from such reprobates by owning a weapon. We, in turn, make ourselves dangerous and help to deter people from commiting violent crimes upon us.

you know why it's so easy to get a hold of guns? because they can be bought in the supermarket!

Where do you get your groceries? to buy a gun you have to pass a back ground check no matter where you buy it at.

that was figurative speech, I know you don't buy them at quick-e-mart. I just meant they're easy to get hold of, even for criminals, or people who don't have a record yet but are planning to do something illegal.
furthermore, owning encourages using. I'm sure there are plenty of occasions where someone got shot when the situation would have been solved just fine if the gun hadn't been present. maybe by just knocking the guy unconsious or something.
I'll shut up now because my expertise is running dry. and i have a train to catch. cheerio

 

[Ph33nix]

there is no justifiable reason that we should not have access to lethal weapons. Making them illegal just makes it harder for the cops to figure out who owns them. nothing is harder to track down than unregistered guns.

 

[Midnight Voyager]

Yes, muzzle-loaders are designed to EXPLODE IN YOUR FACE. You want to make people want fewer guns by making them more dangerous?

Do you think a muzzle-loader is not designed to kill? Including cannons? They have used these things in wars, you know. Do you ever think anyone back then would use fewer guns simply because they could explode? Certainly not.

Do you think people would not still get muzzle-loaders, knowing much safer and better guns can be got by criminals? It's better than nothing, isn't it? Now you have the same number of households with guns, give or take. The criminals have better guns. Go on and add "gun exploded because I did it wrong" statistics to all the other statistics people are bandying about here.

You're not going to convince people who have guns (Again, I have had to put down multiple rabid creatures in the past year) to not have them. You're only making it more dangerous all-around to no effect. I do not see what this would accomplish. Guns now are considerably safer, even when handled improperly. If people are going to have guns, why not allow them to have guns that they can store safely?

I'm not picking at your words. I'm picking at your ideas. Because it's honestly one of the oddest ideas I have ever in my life seen and I want to attempt to understand the rationale behind it.

 

[londelen]

In almost every dictatorship, the leader has taken away the civilian's weapons first, to "keep everyone safe"


And then he rolls in with his army and starts fucking up freedom like nobody's business. I'd rather NOT get abducted by the secret police(IN THE NAME OF PEACE) and held in Guantanamo Bay for an undisclosed amount of time.

 

[Tears of Blood]

you know why it's so easy to get a hold of guns? because they can be bought in the supermarket!

First of all, it's not quite that easy. You need licenses and all of that assorted nonsense. Did you know that licensed gun owners rarely ever kill people with their weapons? It is so rare, that when I did a research project in high school, the last time it happened was in the 1990s.

Second, do you really think criminals buy guns from Wal-Mart? Do you really? Because if you do... Oh geez. Guns are either given to criminals by other criminals, or they are bought from other criminals.

Think about it. In GTA, did Niko ever own a gun legally? No. You buy guns from your friends or from a black market. That's how it actually works. Criminals buy guns to kill people from ARMS DEALERS.

 

[Bob the Average]

Trying to reply a second time as Escapist keeps bombing out on me .... In response to someone who said that if someone is breaking into your home you are better off calling the cops....

Yes ... because the cops might be able to get there in time and might save your life. I prefer to be proactive and take the responsibility for my own well being as MY responsibility first and foremost. Nobody but me is responsible for my safety, my health, and my life ... as a result I do not intend to rely on any other person ... much less a government run organization ... to protect myself, my family, or my property.

And this as someone who has a lot of friends and family in the police department.

The right to keep and bear arms was not written in to the constitution so that we could hunt ... it was written in to the constitution so that we did not have to depend on the government to protect us AND so that the government would not be the only armed entity.

Governments historically have preferred unarmed peasants .... personally I find it sad that so many people want to turn their rights and responsibilities over to the government....

yes, but HISTORICALLY govornments are twats, who abuse peasants and give them no say. modern governments (in the west at least) arent like that. their not entirely trustworthy, but im not expecting them to send me to a concentration camp any time soon.

also, i think banning guns would result in less gun deaths. sure only criminals have guns, but its like than in Britain and we have less gun deaths. the fact is, a burglar in the states knows whoever is in the house might have a gun, so he brings one too and intends to use it, and somebody gets killed. in the UK a burgular assumes they dont have a gun, so the worst he brings is a knife, and probably doesnt intend to use it, because he knows hes basically safe. so what he gets your stuff? he probably gets caught, you have insurance, and nobody is dead

yes it lowers the number of murders committed with guns not the overall number of murders it's like saying it's an improvement because their only bludgeoning people to death now.