Guns are great and all but in the hands of jerks... they become super jerks!... We can't let that happen!
Poll: There is no justifiable reason for civilians to own modern weapons.
- Thread starter HotFezz8
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Boo hoo. Drunk drivers not only kill more people every year in the US without fail, but they kill people indiscriminately. Gun death figures include suicides, which account for a major piece of the total. Then you've got criminal on criminal violence and police shootings and pretty soon only half of the deaths related to guns in the US every year are actually happening to innocent, unsuspecting, poor sunsabitches.
As far as people going postal- more people die every year from fires caused by smokers falling asleep with lit cigarettes.
Ban space heaters. Detroit only had around 100 homicides this year around the half way point last I heard. Winter is here in Detroit now and at least once a week you will hear of some family or tenants being burnt up because of a space heater.
The move to ban guns is all because of media focus, reactionary people- and their bullshit. Their value to protecting a free society is immeasurable. I'm glad you've lived a sheltered life and serious trouble has never befallen you. But a lot of us aren't so lucky or not nearly as willing to take the risk. Entrust your safety to police? Police don't protect you, they RESPOND. Entrust your safety to a government that has proven time and again they don't have their shit together? Be my guest.
No matter what- I'm keeping gun. And I imagine, so are a hell of a lot of other people.
As far as people going postal- more people die every year from fires caused by smokers falling asleep with lit cigarettes.
Ban space heaters. Detroit only had around 100 homicides this year around the half way point last I heard. Winter is here in Detroit now and at least once a week you will hear of some family or tenants being burnt up because of a space heater.
The move to ban guns is all because of media focus, reactionary people- and their bullshit. Their value to protecting a free society is immeasurable. I'm glad you've lived a sheltered life and serious trouble has never befallen you. But a lot of us aren't so lucky or not nearly as willing to take the risk. Entrust your safety to police? Police don't protect you, they RESPOND. Entrust your safety to a government that has proven time and again they don't have their shit together? Be my guest.
No matter what- I'm keeping gun. And I imagine, so are a hell of a lot of other people.
On the subject of the American constitution lets compromise. You can buy as many guns you want so when the British re-invade you're prepared(that was the original reason for the right to bare arms was included in the constitution) on the condition that the models of guns you own were available at the time the constitution was written. So trade in your AR-15 for a nice classic flintlock musket.
If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will carry guns.
Because nobody who carries guns illegally don't give a crap about the law and will carry guns anyway. And what about those of us who already own guns? Confiscate them?
One of the few reasons America won the Revolution was because the rebels knew how to use guns. If they hadn't they would all be dead. A person who enters the military with at least a basic knowledge of firearms will inevitably do better than a guy who's never fired a gun in his life. It's a matter of self-defense. Besides, if you're being robbed, do you want to go after a thief with a butterknife, or hold a gun on him?
Because nobody who carries guns illegally don't give a crap about the law and will carry guns anyway. And what about those of us who already own guns? Confiscate them?
One of the few reasons America won the Revolution was because the rebels knew how to use guns. If they hadn't they would all be dead. A person who enters the military with at least a basic knowledge of firearms will inevitably do better than a guy who's never fired a gun in his life. It's a matter of self-defense. Besides, if you're being robbed, do you want to go after a thief with a butterknife, or hold a gun on him?
I do believe that people should have a right to won a gun as long as proper training. Yes guns cause a lot of deaths a year. many of thoughs deaths were children whom accidently shot themselves or others, but you know what outlawing guns won't change that. People , children in perticular, accidently kill themselves all the time with cars, guns, shit i even heard of a kid who put his own eye out with a damn jacks-ball. The point is even though something is dangerous it doesn't mean that it should be illegal. Yes i also mean that drugs should not be illegal, but that is another topic.
Some of my thoughts after reading this idiotic thread:
Dear brits, please shut up. There is no comparing the situation in the uk to that of america.
You are a relatively isolated island, making guns that much harder to obtain illegally. We have the wonderfully destabilized area known as mexico right below us, below that? A bunch of third world dumps that have plenty of drugs and soveit era tech that sells so well to gangbangers and thugs.
Getting rid of civilian guns does not lower the crime rate. Criminals do not buy their guns legally, so why would disarming law abiding citizens fix crime rates?
Most of what you consider "gun control" is useless.
Waiting periods don't prevent crime; gun registration doesn't either. Trigger locks turn useful tools into paper weights. There is no practical reason to impose any of those three restrictions upon gun purchasing/ownership.
Very few people who intend to use a gun for crime obtain one legally. As a friend of mine said: "Why the hell would I go through all that shit to get a gun when I could go and get one from my weed guy for 50 bucks?"
Murder is already illegal, so why is gun control such a big topic? What about the guy who kills someone with a bat, or a knife? Where are the people clamoring for background checks and waiting periods at the sporting goods store?
Not to mention, what good does a waiting period do for the guy who already owns a dozen pistols? How is it at all fair to make him wait several days or even weeks to pick up his purchase?
As for background checks, sure they look good on paper, but they're just another form of control. I'm reminded of a few years ago, when the PA background check system (PICS) went down for a few days. They basically said NOBODY can buy firearms from a dealer during the time it was down. I don't like the fact that the government can just shut down their database, then say "sorry, nobody can buy or sell anything now."
"Assault" rifles are not powerful in anything other than rate of fire. A hunting rifle has a better chance of being stronger. Oh, BTW, whoever said sniper rifles should be unavailable to the general public, sniper rifles are essentially hunting rifles with scopes, please quit being stupid.
Full auto weapons, like the uzi mentioned in the op, are illegal for civilians to own in america.
Instead of penalizing the owner of firearms with idiotic restrictions, anti gun lawmakers need to focus on stopping the flow of unregistered guns.
Stop focusing on the law abiding citizen and claiming it will be seconds before they snap and kill someone, go after the ones who are breaking the law.
And I really love it when people throw around the school shootings as an excuse.It's not the guns fault these kids shoot up the school, if it's anyones it's their parents for being too selfabsorbed and trying to be their childs friend.They don't need friends, they need parents.I owned guns while I was in high school, I got made fun of, and I never once thought of shooting up the school.
A. because my parents raised me well enough to know that it's wrong, and
B. because they put the fear of god into me if I did something that monumentally stupid.Cops don't scare me, but my mother does.
Anyone who shoots themselves with a gun is fucking stupid and deserves it.And their parents are also fucking stupid for not teaching them gun safety.
Oh, the Ft. Hood shooter? He used two pistols, both bought illegally.
Dear brits, please shut up. There is no comparing the situation in the uk to that of america.
You are a relatively isolated island, making guns that much harder to obtain illegally. We have the wonderfully destabilized area known as mexico right below us, below that? A bunch of third world dumps that have plenty of drugs and soveit era tech that sells so well to gangbangers and thugs.
Getting rid of civilian guns does not lower the crime rate. Criminals do not buy their guns legally, so why would disarming law abiding citizens fix crime rates?
Most of what you consider "gun control" is useless.
Waiting periods don't prevent crime; gun registration doesn't either. Trigger locks turn useful tools into paper weights. There is no practical reason to impose any of those three restrictions upon gun purchasing/ownership.
Very few people who intend to use a gun for crime obtain one legally. As a friend of mine said: "Why the hell would I go through all that shit to get a gun when I could go and get one from my weed guy for 50 bucks?"
Murder is already illegal, so why is gun control such a big topic? What about the guy who kills someone with a bat, or a knife? Where are the people clamoring for background checks and waiting periods at the sporting goods store?
Not to mention, what good does a waiting period do for the guy who already owns a dozen pistols? How is it at all fair to make him wait several days or even weeks to pick up his purchase?
As for background checks, sure they look good on paper, but they're just another form of control. I'm reminded of a few years ago, when the PA background check system (PICS) went down for a few days. They basically said NOBODY can buy firearms from a dealer during the time it was down. I don't like the fact that the government can just shut down their database, then say "sorry, nobody can buy or sell anything now."
"Assault" rifles are not powerful in anything other than rate of fire. A hunting rifle has a better chance of being stronger. Oh, BTW, whoever said sniper rifles should be unavailable to the general public, sniper rifles are essentially hunting rifles with scopes, please quit being stupid.
Full auto weapons, like the uzi mentioned in the op, are illegal for civilians to own in america.
Instead of penalizing the owner of firearms with idiotic restrictions, anti gun lawmakers need to focus on stopping the flow of unregistered guns.
Stop focusing on the law abiding citizen and claiming it will be seconds before they snap and kill someone, go after the ones who are breaking the law.
And I really love it when people throw around the school shootings as an excuse.It's not the guns fault these kids shoot up the school, if it's anyones it's their parents for being too selfabsorbed and trying to be their childs friend.They don't need friends, they need parents.I owned guns while I was in high school, I got made fun of, and I never once thought of shooting up the school.
A. because my parents raised me well enough to know that it's wrong, and
B. because they put the fear of god into me if I did something that monumentally stupid.Cops don't scare me, but my mother does.
Anyone who shoots themselves with a gun is fucking stupid and deserves it.And their parents are also fucking stupid for not teaching them gun safety.
Oh, the Ft. Hood shooter? He used two pistols, both bought illegally.
Any kind of weapon is "leathal"(sp), piano wire is leathal in the incorrect use (a.k.a: your doing it wrong). If you mean full-auto; no, people shouldn't have that. However, that's where I draw the line. Is a .50 really that much more dangerous than a 9mm? Are 8 rounds any less hazardous than 15 or 30? I don't think we should be equiped for taking on an army, but will we really go all the way back to muzzle loaders?HotFezz8 said:
Guns don't kill people; People shooting guns kill people. Don't blame the wine glass for the drunkard.
Not always. After all, why would you intentionaly put yourself closer to the beast that intends to eat you?Nunny said:
Yes.
I believe everyone should be able to have access to weaponry. When the shit hits the fan, the cops won't be there to save you. If you want them to help you, it's going to take five to ten minutes for them to get there, if there are witnesses or if you have a phone, not counting the time it takes to call and ANSWER THE OPERATOR'S FREAKING QUESTIONS. It takes less than a split second for your aggressor to pull that trigger and end your life. He's not going to wait for you to call. Additionally, people will be less likely to "bust a cap" because they'll get shot back at should they treat their weapons like toys. However, I don't think you should just give everybody weapons right off the bat. For people to own weapons, I propose two of important perquisites:
-Education about weapons, the damage they can cause, and how to safely use and store them.
-The passing of a safety test.
With the proper education and possibly a safety test, I think civilian ownership of weapons would not be a problem at all. It could give fathers and sons something to bond over and enthusiasts a hobby. And in a tight spot, it could save your life.
I believe everyone should be able to have access to weaponry. When the shit hits the fan, the cops won't be there to save you. If you want them to help you, it's going to take five to ten minutes for them to get there, if there are witnesses or if you have a phone, not counting the time it takes to call and ANSWER THE OPERATOR'S FREAKING QUESTIONS. It takes less than a split second for your aggressor to pull that trigger and end your life. He's not going to wait for you to call. Additionally, people will be less likely to "bust a cap" because they'll get shot back at should they treat their weapons like toys. However, I don't think you should just give everybody weapons right off the bat. For people to own weapons, I propose two of important perquisites:
-Education about weapons, the damage they can cause, and how to safely use and store them.
-The passing of a safety test.
With the proper education and possibly a safety test, I think civilian ownership of weapons would not be a problem at all. It could give fathers and sons something to bond over and enthusiasts a hobby. And in a tight spot, it could save your life.
Of course we should be allowed to own modern weaponry if the potential terrorists across the street might decide to use them on us.
Kollega said:
I personally believe a very strict policy of gun control for civilians be in place, limiting they types and amounts of own-able weapons is a good balance between the 2 extremes. This to me is the best overall policy. However seeing as we are all Humans fantics from both camps will continue to emo up the waters so w/e happens in each country is w/e happens.
And @ part of Kollega's post I suggest adding "only small arms" option in the poll. The definition of Small arms go from your old school tiny Deringer all the way up to .50 cal Machine guns and often include Grenade and Rocket launchers although thisdefinition may vary from country to country (here in Australia its my understanding that the above is true)
Anti-gun sentiment often thrives on ignorance of guns/gun control and bigotry towards law-abiding gun owners. Ironically some of the people who are wise enough to realize the war on drugs is ineffective think that the war on guns is somehow much better.
There are many factors that affect the murder and gun crime rates. While legal availability of guns much seem like a major factor, it isn't. To back this up I point out the following facts: 1) In the US the murder rate and violent crime rate were lower in 1960 when gun laws were looser. 2) In Mexico it is very hard to legally buy a gun, but their murder rate is more than twice the U.S.
3)There are states in the U.S. with loose gun laws and low rates of gun crime. So we can conclude that loose gun laws doesn't always = high gun crime. Also strict gun laws doesn't always = low gun crime. The answers are more complicated then most anti-gun people think.
http://www.photius.com/rankings/murder_rate_of_countries_2000-2004.html
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
These are the violent crime rates per 100,000. They are part of a trend of increased violent crime(including gun crime) due to various factors that didn't stop until the early 1990's.
1960 160.9
1980 596.6
2008 454.5
There are many factors that affect the murder and gun crime rates. While legal availability of guns much seem like a major factor, it isn't. To back this up I point out the following facts: 1) In the US the murder rate and violent crime rate were lower in 1960 when gun laws were looser. 2) In Mexico it is very hard to legally buy a gun, but their murder rate is more than twice the U.S.
3)There are states in the U.S. with loose gun laws and low rates of gun crime. So we can conclude that loose gun laws doesn't always = high gun crime. Also strict gun laws doesn't always = low gun crime. The answers are more complicated then most anti-gun people think.
http://www.photius.com/rankings/murder_rate_of_countries_2000-2004.html
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm
These are the violent crime rates per 100,000. They are part of a trend of increased violent crime(including gun crime) due to various factors that didn't stop until the early 1990's.
1960 160.9
1980 596.6
2008 454.5
Id like to think I am an independent leaning liberal and if they took away my shotguns I would be pissed. So dont think its just some right wing nut jobs that want their guns. Its not for defense but for going out to the shooting range to shoot skeet and clays. I also love shooting handguns at the pistol range, no reason to take those away. Make guns harder to get but no reason to take them away.