Poll: Thought experiment: What if homosexuality COULD be "cured" medically?

[Griffolion]

I don't think that gayness is something that's curable. Mainly because I don't see heterosexuality as the stark "norm". It's simply the statistically larger portion of people compared to homosexual individuals. But if there was a pill that re-wired our brains to make homosexual individuals become heterosexual individuals then I wouldn't stop them in the same way I wouldn't stop someone should the situation be reversed.

 

[Vampire cat]

Yeah well, the world is full of things that pressure you into doing shit or being in a specific way. Some are just made into a fucking political point and then they're suddenly worse or more noticeable or real. It's bullshit. If you literally fucking suffer because you have a certain sexuality, and you get an opportunity like this in a hypothetical scenario, don't give me that politically correct BS about how you should stand by your guns and fight through it or whatever. It's like telling a bullied boy to not go to karate class and not stand up for himself, because he has to be true to who he is or whatever, and absolutely not change school or anything because HE'S not doing anything wrong. It's bullshit, let the fucking people decide for themselves and use their own common sense that applies to their respective circumstances. The world isn't perfect, sometimes you just have to make the best of it.

Getting so fucking tired of these damn white knights in their shining armor on their white steeds riding in to defend political correctness when they don't know what the hell they're talking about most of the time. I see it in so many situations, not just the "Gay"-topic, but stuff like racism and shit too. Like when you see some loudmouthed chick who looks like she got picked out from the swedish bikini team talking about the hardships of being new in a foreign country when you're from the middle east or whatever. *****, you don't know wtf you're talking about, take your pity elsewhere. Or at least show us your tits...

Get real! The world isn't perfect, deal with it or bail on it, and accept that YOUR set of morals is not necessarily the same as everyone else's, nor is it necessarily better or worse either.

The fuck are you on about? So when someone picks on my sexuality I should alter it? Are you saying black people should turn white because then they wouldn't suffer from racism? What kind of bullshit is that?

I'm gay. I'm transexual. FUCK you for thinking I'm some superhot Swedish model that talks about world peace to win a prize (I'm Norwegian ffs...). I know EXACTLY how it is to be a gay male with transexual tendancies growing up in an unforgiving asshole society. Do you think I should just roll over and not be gay because that's the norm?

I WANT people to fight back against bullshit racism and sexism. I'm not saying that the Nerd shouldn't take Karate lessons, FFS stand up for yourself friend! Don't let people step on your ideals! But becoming "like them" to avoid the bullying is rubbish because it destroys part of who you are... You think me saying "don't alter your sexual prefence, fight it" is like saying to a nerd "dont go to karate classed, dont stand up for yourself", but when you say "alter your sexual preference with this 'cure', and end your suffering" that's giving that nerd a pat on the back and helping him fight the people brining him down?

...

WHAT?! Have you completetly lost your mind?

 

[kurupt87]

Isn't this discussion already running in another current thread?

Hmmm, not on the front page it's not. I don't know, I haven't been keeping up with the forums here as much lately. But it's not like repeat topics are unusual here anyway.

First page on Religion & politics.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/528.338469-Homosexuality-can-be-cured

Huh. I didn't really consider it a religious or political issue, to be honest. More of a social one. Well I guess that's why I haven't seen it: I don't ever go to the religion and politics board. Not sure if that should mean this topic is technically a repeat or not either, especially since that's not a thought experiment so much as it is a commentary on a statement made by a Rabbi.

That thread's not really the same discussion anyway.

As to the thought experiment... I think the reaction from the gay community would be pretty varied. There would be ugliness, for sure. Some would probably even commit suicide, unable to cope with the idea that homosexuality is some sort of disorder. Those would be the ones that are most insecure in their sexuality, the ones deepest in the closet. There'd also be plenty of those who wouldn't care a bit. I think it'd be interesting to see what kind of curve the range of responses follows.

Thankfully, such a thing is likely never to come about. I sure as hell wouldn't want to hear the deafening chorus of "I TOLD YOU SO" from the religious whackjobs and other homophobes.

You don't seem to understand what being in the closet means. It doesn't just mean lying to others, it means lying to yourself. That is what those deepest in the closet do. They'd be, ostensibly, unaffected by the announcement.

OT: If this were possible, then so would the reverse be. It's just a preference anyway, you may as well ask, "if you could cure your hate of broccoli, would you do it?" It doesn't really mean anything, it's just made to by morons.

 

[elvor0]

If the drug was announced as being a "Cure for the gay", then yes, a lot of people would be pissed. It would be the same as offering a "Cure for the White" which sounds like medical genocide or a "Cure for the Gamer" which sounds like culture-o-cide. <- Needs revision.

That sounds like the deaf people that don't want children to have their hearing restored.

being deaf is a serious disabilty

Why? You are "born that way", just like you are born gay.

being gay? how is that any worse than say..being turned on by bondage or robots or feet? should we "cure" those people too because god forbid what people get up to in their bedrooms should be of great concerin to us "normal" people

So what's so wrong with being deaf? They have their own languages, cultures, what's intrinsically different about deaf and gay? Deaf people often argue that hearing people calling them disabled is offensive and its no more a medical condition/disability than being gay is.

It's not quite the same at all though is it? That's like saying not being able to walk or being blind isn't a disability, being gay doesn't stop you from doing anything, whereas being deaf disables your ability to hear, hence...disability.

Being born without hearing is a serious disability, think about how your life would be if you stopped being able to hear right now; no music, no verbal conversation, all movies with subtitles, only being able to converse with people who can speak sign language.

Complete and total silence, all the time, the only sound you get to hear is your own voice in your head, and if you were born deaf then I'm not sure what that would sound like as you'd have no concept of sound to begin with.

On a serious note can anyone answer that, can people born deaf hear their own voice in their head? They would've never of heard it so...?

The people who are deaf don't think its a disability (well, unless it gets them tax credits). They think its just different.

And there are certainly disadvantages to being completely homosexual. It makes having kids impossible without medical intervention. It also brings you into all sorts of cultural difficulties of course.

And if you have never had sound, how does the lack of hearing hurt you? You can still communicate. It's like saying you are disabled because you can't see in infrared.

What are you on? You're still capable of having kids if you're gay, granted you're not going to easily get off with a girl, but you're still physically capable of creating children regardless of whether or not you're into women. Humans can't naturally see infared, and never have been able to, wheras humans (and most other creatures on the planet) can hear by default, they can however be born or BECOME deaf, and if you become deaf you lose your ability to to hear, ie your ability to hear is disabled, hence disability. It's not a difficult concept, not being able to walk is also a disability, as is being mute, blind, or a paraplegic.

From the Oxford Dictionary:

"A disadvantage or deficiency, especially a physical or mental impairment that interferes with or prevents normal achievement in a particular area." Not being able to hear means you can never listen to stuff as would people who can hear. You can't seriously be that dense and obtuse.

 

[StBishop]

WAIT!!! Before you immediately vote "no" because "homosexuality is not a disease, you homophobe!" I just want you to think about it for a minute.

This is just a hypothetical scenario in which say, scientists have discovered homosexuality is caused by some sort of chemical brain chi something or other and they've developed a pill that could make gay people straight. First, would you support it if it were utterly painless with no real side-effects? Second, what do you think the reaction would be from the masses? The gay community? Please try and keep discussion civil.

Is there a pill which can make someone gay?

 

[Nimcha]

Nah I wouldn't take it. I'm so boring that it would take away my most interesting feature.

 

[Donnie Restad]

In a perfect world, sure. As long as we could also have pills that made straight people gay. And turn men into women. Whites into blacks, and Asians, and Tahitians and Smurfs and Na'vi and elves and Klingons. We'd have pills to make you smarter and ones to make you stupider. Make you skinny, make you fat, make you tall, make you short. Until then, we are who we are born to be.

Might as well be proud of it.

 

[Kolby Jack]

WAIT!!! Before you immediately vote "no" because "homosexuality is not a disease, you homophobe!" I just want you to think about it for a minute.

This is just a hypothetical scenario in which say, scientists have discovered homosexuality is caused by some sort of chemical brain chi something or other and they've developed a pill that could make gay people straight. First, would you support it if it were utterly painless with no real side-effects? Second, what do you think the reaction would be from the masses? The gay community? Please try and keep discussion civil.

Is there a pill which can make someone gay?

Hmmm, I guess in this hypothetical scenario, reversing the process would be a cinch. It would be interesting to see how many people opt to "try out" being gay. XP

 

[StBishop]

WAIT!!! Before you immediately vote "no" because "homosexuality is not a disease, you homophobe!" I just want you to think about it for a minute.

This is just a hypothetical scenario in which say, scientists have discovered homosexuality is caused by some sort of chemical brain chi something or other and they've developed a pill that could make gay people straight. First, would you support it if it were utterly painless with no real side-effects? Second, what do you think the reaction would be from the masses? The gay community? Please try and keep discussion civil.

Is there a pill which can make someone gay?

Hmmm, I guess in this hypothetical scenario, reversing the process would be a cinch. It would be interesting to see how many people opt to "try out" being gay. XP

I know a couple dudes who, sick of women, wish they were gay.

Objectively it'd be better because dudes are less annoying, don't have monthly rage weeks, and there's no concern of accidental impregnation, also sex is apparently really easy to get when you're gay.

But you also have to have sex with dudes, which doesn't appeal to me personally.

 

[Skin]

Yeah well, the world is full of things that pressure you into doing shit or being in a specific way. Some are just made into a fucking political point and then they're suddenly worse or more noticeable or real. It's bullshit. If you literally fucking suffer because you have a certain sexuality, and you get an opportunity like this in a hypothetical scenario, don't give me that politically correct BS about how you should stand by your guns and fight through it or whatever. It's like telling a bullied boy to not go to karate class and not stand up for himself, because he has to be true to who he is or whatever, and absolutely not change school or anything because HE'S not doing anything wrong. It's bullshit, let the fucking people decide for themselves and use their own common sense that applies to their respective circumstances. The world isn't perfect, sometimes you just have to make the best of it.

Getting so fucking tired of these damn white knights in their shining armor on their white steeds riding in to defend political correctness when they don't know what the hell they're talking about most of the time. I see it in so many situations, not just the "Gay"-topic, but stuff like racism and shit too. Like when you see some loudmouthed chick who looks like she got picked out from the swedish bikini team talking about the hardships of being new in a foreign country when you're from the middle east or whatever. *****, you don't know wtf you're talking about, take your pity elsewhere. Or at least show us your tits...

Get real! The world isn't perfect, deal with it or bail on it, and accept that YOUR set of morals is not necessarily the same as everyone else's, nor is it necessarily better or worse either.

The fuck are you on about? So when someone picks on my sexuality I should alter it? Are you saying black people should turn white because then they wouldn't suffer from racism? What kind of bullshit is that?

I'm gay. I'm transexual. FUCK you for thinking I'm some superhot Swedish model that talks about world peace to win a prize (I'm Norwegian ffs...). I know EXACTLY how it is to be a gay male with transexual tendancies growing up in an unforgiving asshole society. Do you think I should just roll over and not be gay because that's the norm?

I WANT people to fight back against bullshit racism and sexism. I'm not saying that the Nerd shouldn't take Karate lessons, FFS stand up for yourself friend! Don't let people step on your ideals! But becoming "like them" to avoid the bullying is rubbish because it destroys part of who you are... You think me saying "don't alter your sexual prefence, fight it" is like saying to a nerd "dont go to karate classed, dont stand up for yourself", but when you say "alter your sexual preference with this 'cure', and end your suffering" that's giving that nerd a pat on the back and helping him fight the people brining him down?

Your transexual? Well then the DSM considers you to have a mental defect.

Also, I am wondering how many of these people who are saying "no" to this idea are "pro-choicers". The double standard would not shock me at all.

 

[Johanthemonster666]

I think theres a misunderstanding in the word 'cure'.

I mean, Im straight, and i dont want to be Gay, and im fairly certain that anyone, if given free choice would happily choose whatever orientation they want. This is where the social factor comes in - If a person is gay but is being oppressed by society (as in, opressive parents, uncaring friends, etc) then if they take this pill they are changing themselves to fit the surrounding social structure instead of the other way around.

I cant see why anyone would willingly do this?

This^


I happen to be 'gay' and I don't know why I would even be asked if I might "cure myself" if I had the option. There's nothing to cure, and the only people who think of this as a disorder are religious fanatics and bigots the world over who are either ignorant or struggling with their own sexuality.

Would you change your race, gender, or any other genetic facet of your very being just because a certain groups make your life hard, restrict you, oppress you, kill/imprison you and think your a menace to society? Would you do it to have more opportunities?

 

[Johanthemonster666]

Yeah well, the world is full of things that pressure you into doing shit or being in a specific way. Some are just made into a fucking political point and then they're suddenly worse or more noticeable or real. It's bullshit. If you literally fucking suffer because you have a certain sexuality, and you get an opportunity like this in a hypothetical scenario, don't give me that politically correct BS about how you should stand by your guns and fight through it or whatever. It's like telling a bullied boy to not go to karate class and not stand up for himself, because he has to be true to who he is or whatever, and absolutely not change school or anything because HE'S not doing anything wrong. It's bullshit, let the fucking people decide for themselves and use their own common sense that applies to their respective circumstances. The world isn't perfect, sometimes you just have to make the best of it.

Getting so fucking tired of these damn white knights in their shining armor on their white steeds riding in to defend political correctness when they don't know what the hell they're talking about most of the time. I see it in so many situations, not just the "Gay"-topic, but stuff like racism and shit too. Like when you see some loudmouthed chick who looks like she got picked out from the swedish bikini team talking about the hardships of being new in a foreign country when you're from the middle east or whatever. *****, you don't know wtf you're talking about, take your pity elsewhere. Or at least show us your tits...

Get real! The world isn't perfect, deal with it or bail on it, and accept that YOUR set of morals is not necessarily the same as everyone else's, nor is it necessarily better or worse either.

The fuck are you on about? So when someone picks on my sexuality I should alter it? Are you saying black people should turn white because then they wouldn't suffer from racism? What kind of bullshit is that?

I'm gay. I'm transexual. FUCK you for thinking I'm some superhot Swedish model that talks about world peace to win a prize (I'm Norwegian ffs...). I know EXACTLY how it is to be a gay male with transexual tendancies growing up in an unforgiving asshole society. Do you think I should just roll over and not be gay because that's the norm?

I WANT people to fight back against bullshit racism and sexism. I'm not saying that the Nerd shouldn't take Karate lessons, FFS stand up for yourself friend! Don't let people step on your ideals! But becoming "like them" to avoid the bullying is rubbish because it destroys part of who you are... You think me saying "don't alter your sexual prefence, fight it" is like saying to a nerd "dont go to karate classed, dont stand up for yourself", but when you say "alter your sexual preference with this 'cure', and end your suffering" that's giving that nerd a pat on the back and helping him fight the people brining him down?

Your transexual? Well then the DSM considers you to have a mental defect.

Also, I am wondering how many of these people who are saying "no" to this idea are "pro-choicers". The double standard would not shock me at all.

Way to draw correlation where this is none pal.
Big difference between the reproductive rights of millions of women that you'll never see, or meet (which you obviously think you know better to make the decision for them) and looking at other sexualities as inferior to heterosexuality and that they should be encouraged to change under penalty of discrimination, isolation, murder or imprisonment in the societies they live in.

Even as a thought experiment or "what if it were a choice", the heterosexist logic fails here because it assumes itself to be inherently superior.


PS-You obviously know nothing about the mental health field. Transgender (as an umbrella term for a host of gender identities between the brain's wiring and the body they were born in) is not a disorder because the person is question is "sick" it is a disorder because the family/society that these children are born into have designated them a gender based on their physical attributes which they are not. This causes a host of problems and these mixed signals between what their brain is telling them and what society expects of them causes disruption in their lives (this could be said for sexual orientation, which is not the same as gender identity).

There is already widespread support in industrial countries for the removal of non-CISgender identities from their list of mental 'disorders' in the traditional sense which most professionals refute anyway.

Talking about people who shout a lot about things they don't comprehend, look in the mirror pal. Also false dilemma tactics don't work, not even theoretically.

Edit: Moral relativism has never been a justification for discrimination. Only to a person of privledged status based on gender, race, or class would ever tell someone else who objects to the mistreatment of others (even if they themselves do not identify as a member of that group) to "shut up and show us your tits".

 

[Vault101]

Yeah well, the world is full of things that pressure you into doing shit or being in a specific way. Some are just made into a fucking political point and then they're suddenly worse or more noticeable or real. It's bullshit. If you literally fucking suffer because you have a certain sexuality, and you get an opportunity like this in a hypothetical scenario, don't give me that politically correct BS about how you should stand by your guns and fight through it or whatever. It's like telling a bullied boy to not go to karate class and not stand up for himself, because he has to be true to who he is or whatever, and absolutely not change school or anything because HE'S not doing anything wrong. It's bullshit, let the fucking people decide for themselves and use their own common sense that applies to their respective circumstances. The world isn't perfect, sometimes you just have to make the best of it.

Getting so fucking tired of these damn white knights in their shining armor on their white steeds riding in to defend political correctness when they don't know what the hell they're talking about most of the time. I see it in so many situations, not just the "Gay"-topic, but stuff like racism and shit too. Like when you see some loudmouthed chick who looks like she got picked out from the swedish bikini team talking about the hardships of being new in a foreign country when you're from the middle east or whatever. *****, you don't know wtf you're talking about, take your pity elsewhere. Or at least show us your tits...

Get real! The world isn't perfect, deal with it or bail on it, and accept that YOUR set of morals is not necessarily the same as everyone else's, nor is it necessarily better or worse either.

that still feels saying

"geeks should jsut stop playing videogames and take up REAL sports...its your own fault if you chosoe to do that"

also

*****, you don't know wtf you're talking about, take your pity elsewhere. Or at least show us your tits...[/B]

what in the mothfucking christ does THAT have to do with ANYTHING?? that just hurting your credibility

 

[Saulkar]

Though I don't understand homosexual men... guys bodies are so...... bland compared to the intrinsic beauty of a woman.

You're fucking joking? Please tell me you're fucking joking!!! Oh wait! I guess you are not. Ookay den, I show you dis!

Spoiler: Warning!: TASTEFULLY obstructed, youtube approved, male nudity for the more squeamish types

This is awesome!

Your statement is invalid!

(I so hope this does not get me a warning(or a smartass remark saying (No not a warning, a suspension/permanent ban (those backhanded statements have never been funny or in good spirit and never will)))

 

[Thomas Eshuis]

That's also why i hate the gay gene argument when everyone knows its just a fetish.

So tell me, is heterosexuality also a fetish?
If no, how do you figure?

in a sense...it is, but its more the natural default (hormones, instinct to reproduce, ect.)
so kind of yes depending on how you describe it

Well going by the definition of fetish it's
a form of sexual desire in which gratification is linked to an abnormal degree to a particular object, item of clothing, part of the body, etc.:

Neither homosexuality nor heterosexuality fits that definition.
The fact that one things is the dominant orientation, physical attribute or whatever does not make other forms a fetish or something.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

If the drug was announced as being a "Cure for the gay", then yes, a lot of people would be pissed. It would be the same as offering a "Cure for the White" which sounds like medical genocide or a "Cure for the Gamer" which sounds like culture-o-cide. <- Needs revision.

Presumably this medicine simply adjusts sexual orientation. This means that it wouldn't take long for some other scientist to analyze the medicine and create a "Cure for the Straight". Depending on how readily available and expensive this drug is, I would assume that it would make for a great prank where you can turn one of your friends gay without them knowing while still being able to "reset" their sexual orientation once the joke's novelty has faded. However, the results might end up being more problematic than funny.

Now theres some interesting thoughts. Imagine a person has a friend they really really like, but they arent sexually attracted to that person and they feel like they could have a happy long term marriage/relationship with this person. One trip to the doctor and your sexuality is adjusted and you can get it on with this person.

I wonder how many people would just want to make themselves bisexual.