Poll: Thoughts on symbolism

[Eric the Orange]

Often times I find that any kind of deeper meaning goes right over my head. I can usually understand this kind of thing only after it's been explained to me. So anything I read, watch, play, ect. that has any symbolic elements, or deeper meaning beyond what is explicitly said, often times leaves me feeling board, confused, and generally "not getting it".

For example, I wasn't to enthralled with Neo Genesis Evangaleon, because what it looked like to me was a bunch of psychologically unstable people in mechs fighting monsters. I have sense then been explained to what it's "really about", but to quote Yahtzee "It's like you tell a joke and nobody laughs. You then explain the joke and people say 'oh, I guess that kinda funny'. But they still don't laugh, because you didn't tell the joke properly in the first place".

Or for those of you who haven't seen NGE look at Movie Bobs review of Where The Wild Things Are. In the review he says "Grownups and older kids will appreciate the symbolic and psychological struggles being played out between the all energy max and the wild things.", And while I am a grownup, or possibly and older kid, if I saw that movie I could assure you that sort of thing would go right over my head.

So my question to you is, do you like or dislike when your media gets "deep" and "psychological".

 

[Radeonx]

It depends how it's used.
It can be good, but other times, it can be completely unneeded, and useless.

 

[grimsprice]

I'm really good at seeing symbolism. Sometimes i even see it where it isn't. I can make something of a perfectly innocuous occurrence.

 

[BonsaiK]

All depends how it's done. NGE does a particularly poor job. On the otehr hand I like David Lynch quite a lot.

 

[badgersprite]

I love symbolism, but then I'm excessively analytical and like to look for meaning in things. Plus, I suppose as a frustrated writer I can appreciate when other people are trying to get things across. I just get annoyed when people beat me over the head with symbolism like I'm too stupid to understand what they've made abundantly obvious, or when the symbolism becomes an excuse to prop up an otherwise lacking story, or to try and appear 'artsy' or add a layer of depth that really isn't there. Seriously, every movie that wants to appear deep just throws in their main character in a Christ pose - that doesn't make your movie deep; that's just having a wank.

If I were you, though, I wouldn't get too hung up on symbolism. People are always going to interpret texts differently, and no interpretation is more valid than any other, provided there's textual evidence to back it up. If all you're after is the story itself, that's fine too - the primary purpose of any text is to communicate, and if they're not getting their message across, then perhaps they're not doing their job properly.

 

[Kollega]

I can't really see symbolism unless it's blatant (doubly so if it's blatantly Freudian). I think that if you try to make a point,you must be straightforward with your analogies. Nineteen Eighty Four is a good example - in it's time,it was a jab at Stalinist USSR,but now we know it as mother of all totalitarian dystopias.

And if you want to throw in some vaguely symbolic things in a work where they don't really matter,why the hell not? I guess that symbolism is fine and dandy unless it's misused and subtle clues are used to make the point author wants to make.

Or,as a guy above me said,when people try to use "symbolism" to save third-rate story from the critics. Hint: it does not work.

 

[Eric the Orange]

I also want to point out that despite not noticing the symbolism I have liked things like "The Matrix". Of coarse The reason I liked it was because it was a kick ass action movie, and I had to have the deeper elements explained to me.

 

[Eric the Orange]

I love when my media gets deep and psychological. Neon Genesis Evangelion is my favorite anime for just this reason. I must have watched it all the way through at least 10 times but it never gets old. Same goes for the original Silent Hill trilogy in the world of video games (everything after 3 doesn't count).

I am curious, what do you think Evangelion was "really about"?

Oh, my, I've had so much been told to me that it could fill a book, but I'll make a few pointers.

For example that the EVAs were symbolic for the characters mothers and that the cockpit was supposed to be symbolic for a womb. Or how AT field stands for Absolute Terror field, meaning the absolute terror of being alone (though how that blocks stuff I don't know). And of coarse all the Judea/Christan mythology references.

About as deep as I could figure out on my own was that the anime was more about the characters internal struggles than the actual giant robot battles.

 

[Julianking93]

If the person using symbolism knows what they're doing, then, yeah, it should be pretty good.

If I don't understand it, I wont hold it against it unless it is really obscure symbolism that not many people get.

 

[Hallow'sEve]

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar

 

[Eric the Orange]

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar

Ah yes, but that is the problem right there isn't it. While I may just see it as some guy smoking a cigar, prehaps the writer had intended it to be a Freudian metaphor for power, as in this man is a powerful and in charge man. Or then again maybe not, that the problem, I can never tell. So I just assume that everything is what it is put out to be a face value and not try to over analyze.

 

[socialtangent]

I love well-placed symbolism in stories, music, and art, but on the other hand, over-analyzing things is what leads to conspiracy theories and other crackpot beliefs; not everything has a deeper meaning or motive.

 

[Sightless Wisdom]

I'm a self proclaimed philosopher of sorts, so I certainly enjoy a bit of psychology thrown into media. Of course excessive amounts of it where they need not be, gets a little annoying.

 

[Eric the Orange]

In retrospect the poll question should have been "do you like or dislike symbolism", rather than "do you think symbolism is good or bad".

 

[A Weary Exile]

I'm really good at seeing symbolism. Sometimes i even see it where it isn't. I can make something of a perfectly innocuous occurrence.

Same here, I love it when things are "Said without having to be said." It adds a shade of detail to the plot of whatever it is that I'm watching.

 

[Troublesome Lagomorph]

I think it is a good thing. That said, I might miss some of it.

 

[gigastrike]

I don't hate symbolism. I hate all the snobs who think it's amazing/think that they're smart because they can form a metaphor.

 

[Veylon]

Symbolism is part of art. This means that. Simple enough, but, like art, it is over-infested with alleged "experts" eager to prize loose another chunk of meaning and brag about their brilliance. Did you notice how bad guy soldiers almost always cover their faces? It makes them non-people so we feel no sympathy when they die.

In my view, Yahtzee's quote used by the OP is right. Good symbolism breezes into your mind and makes itself at home. It triggers a subconcious reaction. Bad or misaimed symbolism is either ignored (and useless/harmless) or actively obtrudes, making a nuisance of itself. Did you notice the many shots of The Door and Moss in the first Hulk movie? What do they mean?

I think that maybe the best way to use symbolism is to subvert it. What happens when the people in black armor are just people? Or the goatee is meaningless? Or the happy smiling woman is the villain? These things disturb out minds by undercutting our assumptions. The subconcious balks, forcing us to think. The innocent-seeming, yet evil child is the classic example. Creepy.