Poll: Tired of killing?

[CatmanStu]

Having just finished my latest playthrough of the Witcher 2 (awesome game now with extra Enhanced goodness) I suddenly realised something that had been slowly seeping into my thoughts was now very prominant: I'm tired of killing.

I am not saying I am tired of combat, a good combat system is a very rewarding mechanic to master (or in my case, get competant with) but I would like to see other options than lethal force.

Obviously this would be very difficult to implement in a shooter, but in a melee combat system it should be reletively easy; you wear down their stamina, disarm or knock out. This could lead to humorous responses like an opponent falling to the floor exhausted or running off when you have their weapon.

As I have been playing video games as long as there has been video games (yes, I am THAT old) it could be that I am just jaded but I thought it would be interesting to see if other people had similar thoughts or, if people like the corpse trails they leave behind, why they wouldn't give it up for a less fatal option.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Deus Ex and Human Revolution make non-killing a pretty viable option. I always thought it would be fun to play another FPS along the lines of the first half of Stranger's Wrath, where you wear down bounties with nonlethal weapons and bring them in. You could have a taser, a gun that bags people a la fifth element, non-lethal bear traps, that kind of thing.

 

[dessertmonkeyjk]

Yes, if I'm not forced to do so. However, I tend to weight the benefits of befriending an former enemy as they could basically stab me in the back at any time.

 

[Rawne1980]

I too have been gaming since the dawn of gaming (I may be old but I still look damn good) but I like me some killing.

I have Monkey Island for when I just want to insult people to submission but most of the time I slap a game in and want to hack/shoot/blow up peoples faces.

Just because I can.

 

[dyre]

If games want to offer a nonlethal option, I'm all for that, but the game has to recognize you for being a peacemaker rather than a murderer. I mean, NPCs should act differently, and perhaps quests should have different options.

As someone mentioned earlier, Deus Ex HR does this a little bit.

Age of Decadence pretty much revolves around finding ways to complete a mission without killing people; combat is brutally hard and you could easily die fighting one or two regular thugs. Take on an enemy outpost of six guards and you're guaranteed to die. Of course, if you do choose to slaughter your way through missions, then you'll develop a [body count] reputation that you can use to help intimidate NPCs in some situations, but if you choose to avoid conflict, you get a peacemaker reputation that also can be useful. The game's still in beta though, and to be honest current it discourages combat a bit too much.

 

[DoPo]

You can totally do it in Arcanum. You can either - have your followers do all the killing if necessary as your character talks his way out of every other situation. Or you can actually have a completely no killing run. You can just knock people unconscious and try to not take quests related with killing.

EDIT: And weirdly enough, you can do a non-lethal run in Postal 2. You'll even get a recognition for that. "Thank you for playing, Jesus" or something like that.

 

[DoPo]

Depends. Some times I want XP, some times I don't want to fight.

Why should these be exclusive? You get experience for experiencing stuff. Not just because you've stabbed some mooks. It is there in PnP RPGs, but very rarely in computer ones and I wander why. After all - you defeated the enemies and solved the encounter in one way or another - whether you convince them to run away or you slit their throats, in the end of the day, the situation is resolved in the player's favour, so why not give them XP?

 

[BathorysGraveland]

Nope. I enjoy killing and butchering in games. It's no strange fate that 99% of the games I play involve either war or personal glory (RPG's etc).

 

[Cronq]

We need more FPH: First Person Huggers

Go play puzzle and iOS games if you're tired of violence.

 

[CatmanStu]

alpha protocol does this as well. gives a non lethal option and gives you reasons to use it

Until you come up against that bloody guy who chases you around the dance floor with two great knives; then you wish you had lumped all your points into automatic weapons.

Deus Ex and Human Revolution make non-killing a pretty viable option.

Unfortunately, same problem as Alpha Protocol; moments where you are punished for making a non lethal build.

I'm talking about a non lethal combat mechanic rather than a system to avoid conflict; like being able to use a bo staff rather than a sword and have it react completely differently.

If games want to offer a nonlethal option, I'm all for that, but the game has to recognize you for being a peacemaker rather than a murderer. I mean, NPCs should act differently, and perhaps quests should have different options.

I agree with this 100%. If you are playing non lethal it should feel rewarding and not just some other way of 'offing some dudes'. In contrast playing lethal should also make you feel like a murdering psycho badass.

 

[DoPo]

I'm talking about a non lethal combat mechanic rather than a system to avoid conflict; like being able to use a bo staff rather than a sword and have it react completely differently.

Well, in Morrowind, hand-to-hand fighting is basically the peaceful option - you can only knock somebody out and only then start to damage them. Also, you can use spells to hold or otherwise incapacitate your foes. It's not really different than killing them (they would still hate you) but it's at least peaceful.

In Arcanum again, weapons may do health damage (usually bladed ones) or health and fatigue damage (well, almost everything but blunt objects may cause more FT damage than heath one). So, like Morrowind, if somebody runs out of fatigue they would collapse unconscious. You can use that to not kill people. Technically. Still no other actual reaction - there just isn't a corpse, but it's at least something that can be used for non-lethal approach.

Other than that, D&D Next has had an interesting suggestion come up (also, it's not new just never been bound in explicit rules). It can totally be adapted for video games. Basically, your character can try to scare the enemies out of combat. It wouldn't be hard to implement, you just need an intimidation mechanic (swing your weapon or curse them, maybe take a hit and don't flinch) which deals a different type of damage. And when the enemies run out of "courage points" they run away or surrender or whatever. Not hard to implement, and adds some more depth.

The Total Wars series had a reputation system in place. If a general kills the captured enemies all the time, they become "fearsome" or if they just let them go, they become "benevolent" or whatever.

All in all, the ideas are out there but somebody needs to combine them together,

 

[CatmanStu]

We need more FPH: First Person Huggers

Go play puzzle and iOS games if you're tired of violence.

Interesting that you would equate killing with violence. Is a soldier violent? Is a policeman shooting a gangbanger in self defense violent?
I would say that violence is the use of excessive force and in that regard there are very few violent games. Most games give you no option than to kill your enemies so killing them can have no moral repercussions as there was never a choice. I am advocating that more games give you that choice so, in essence, I am asking for MORE violent games.

 

[CatmanStu]

Other than that, D&D Next has had an interesting suggestion come up (also, it's not new just never been bound in explicit rules). It can totally be adapted for video games. Basically, your character can try to scare the enemies out of combat. It wouldn't be hard to implement, you just need an intimidation mechanic (swing your weapon or curse them, maybe take a hit and don't flinch) which deals a different type of damage. And when the enemies run out of "courage points" they run away or surrender or whatever. Not hard to implement, and adds some more depth.

I like the possiblities of this idea. You could add a morale bar to enemies, that goes down the more you parry or dodge their blows and up when they hit, when it runs out hit a button for a disarm move followed by a taunt or scathing put down to make them run off with a load in their pants. You could even earn bonus XP if you do it without landing a hit (which would also reduce morale).

 

[TheGreatAndPowerfulZOG]

I used to try to do non-fatal runs in Perfect Dark... Dude, so hard. I often will opt for non-lethal force when the option is available. Deus Ex, MGS, and the Fallout games all had methods of neutralizing enemies without killing them, and I was able to get more into the experience because of it.

 

[DoPo]

Other than that, D&D Next has had an interesting suggestion come up (also, it's not new just never been bound in explicit rules). It can totally be adapted for video games. Basically, your character can try to scare the enemies out of combat. It wouldn't be hard to implement, you just need an intimidation mechanic (swing your weapon or curse them, maybe take a hit and don't flinch) which deals a different type of damage. And when the enemies run out of "courage points" they run away or surrender or whatever. Not hard to implement, and adds some more depth.

I like the possiblities of this idea. You could add a morale bar to enemies, that goes down the more you parry or dodge their blows and up when they hit, when it runs out hit a button for a disarm move followed by a taunt or scathing put down to make them run off with a load in their pants. You could even earn bonus XP if you do it without landing a hit (which would also reduce morale).

Yes, that works. Really well. It's just a slightly different style of combat.

Another possibility - you do not slay enemies outright. If they fall, they are still living (maybe for just a bit). This means that a random fight doesn't end with death - you either have to leave the victim to die or kill them yourself but also, you can save them. Alternatively, using the above - you can have different fighting styles. So, for example - with a sword you will pretty much kill stuff, but with blunt weapons you wouldn't unless you put some effort into it. And maybe you can have a fighting style that injures but does not kill. So if you have these, you can fight and the result would be a) your foe ends up as a bloody smear and several limbs scattered through the room b) bruised and maybe somewhat injured but nothing too serious c) injured and broken - alive but barely.

If you have something like that, you can truly earn a title of "killer" or "pacifist" (maybe a more appropriate title) because it will require some actual effort to kill stuff, more than "I hit them" at any rate. For bonus depth, even the "peaceful" fighting can end up seriously injuring creatures. If your enemies lie on the ground and are in danger of bleeding to death, then you can try to save them...or if you're past that point, offer a mercy kill.

 

[DoPo]

The more options to complete quests/goals the better. Another reason I prefer Black Isle/Trokia/Obsidian rpgs. The games actually accommodate, support & recognize different characters and provide options for them. (example- different dialogs in Fallout for low int characters, Arcanum for different builds)

Arcanum (I know, I know, but I discovered it recently and it blew my mind) is really cool, as you can [lay it as a fairly normal RPG - go there kill things, fetch McGuffin, return, but you can also freely break the flow to be utterly sadistic evil. You can't convince that NPC to tell you how to continue the plot? (and you don't want to do their stupid chores for him) Well, just murder them, raise their spirit from the dead and make them tell you. Or pickpocket their key and rifle through their possessions, that also works. It's just really awesome how the devs seem to have thought of everything. Can't unlock a door? Dynamite. Want to ditch this whole business with you as the hero? Join the enemy. You can even consistently claim that you don't want to be the hero, you just want people to stop trying to murder you (not that they would but it's a nice touch, I think). "Aha, so you're the hero!" "No, I just don't want any more trouble."

 

[krazykidd]

But killing is fun! And the fastest most effective way to deal with a threat . ( in a video game setting obviously ). Tired of mindless killing? Be creative in your methodes . Aim for their hands and feet , watch them tumble . Use more melee . Use underpowered weapons . Use over powered weapons . Run past your enemies . Avoid your enemies .

Or play puzzle games .