... or just not wrap their metal ropes around criminals who EXCLUSIVELY USE ELECTRICITY-GENERATING WEAPONRY.
Poll: (TLAB:LOK Discussion) Do the Equalists have a point?
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Wiat, since when can Amon bend? I haven't seen him bend ANYTHING in any episode so far.Knight Templar said:
Also, I agree with the equalists. Bending is FUCKING AWESOME, and if not everyone can do it, then NOBODY can. However, I'm not so sure Amons intentions are pure, considering he completely skipped the "peaceful demonstration and protest" stage and made a beeline for "terrorism and violence" stage.
Maybe yes. Ends should not justify the means. I do not care how valid their arguments are, they lose the debate by forcing their views onto others.
I suppose learning a martial art, especially a highly technical one like chi-blocking, would take years of training, and most benders would prefer to devote their time to learning the style of their own bending. I imagine that the majority of non-benders who have learnt to fight would be on Amon's side, especially after the oppressive crap that Tarrlok and the council pulled. Perhaps the reason they don't use the lightning gloves is because they might be a bit restrictive? Benders seem to use their hands a lot to manipulate the elements. Also, Asami's dad probably wouldn't make them available to the enemy. They would only have the ones they seized, if any.Mortai Gravesend said:
Of course that's all conjecture. The real reason is probably because it makes the two sides more balanced this way, for narrative purposes.
Edit: I may as well add that Amon's just too fucking cool. I like how he isn't a massive dick towards his followers like Azula and the Fire Lord were depicted in the first series. He leads thanks to well earned respect. I don't think they'll pull a "Pokemon" on us and have it turn out that Amon only wants to get rid of bending so he can rule using the very methods he denounced. That's just lazy writing and TLA series is better than that.
Why? Tarrlok could certainly have scared them enough to give up freedom for security.Mortai Gravesend said:
If a man with a baseball bat demanded my lunch money, I'd give it up. In fact, I'd be more scared of the guy with the bat. Either can kill me, but a firebender is rarer and more likely to leave evidence.senordesol said:
That's roughly analogous to someone committing sexual harrassment and getting castrated for the first offense.Anoni Mus said:
I'm not really sure about the police, though if they are all earthbenders, at least metalbending is a pretty good reason for it. A chiblocker could subdue a criminal just as well...up close. Metalbenders, on the other hand, can subdue at range, and they still have normal earthbending for capture and transport. It's like having an entire police force of Spiderman clones, without the angst.manic_depressive13 said:
It's doubtful that all power plant workers are firebenders. After all, power plants in real life don't have workers who can shoot electricity from their fingers, but they still require human labor to build and keep running. And Liberty City power plants almost certainly use normal generators in addition to human-input generators. They clearly have the technology for them (see: the Equalist weapons), and not all firebenders can bend lightning anyway; it requires a lot of skill and control. Lightningbenders probably generate more power than whatever technology is in general use (or there'd be no point to using them at all), but unless it's a lot more, I wouldn't think there are enough of them to power the entire city day and night, even taking nonpeak hours into account.
If his bending removal power and bloodbending resistance is any indication, at the very least he seems to be an akashabender like the Avatar.Syzygy23 said:
Yes, I know, it's called spirit bending, but screw it. The Hindu name is cooler.
Your right, I had forgotten about the Dai Li and the fishing village. I feel Tarlok's actions don't count here as he was abusing he's political powers, not his bending. I concede that benders can and do abuse their powers. But I think the big issue is do we punish the majority for the actions of the minority?senordesol said:
Shouldn't the police force be comprised of those most capable of enforcing the law and protecting people? In the real world, we want our police to be able to deal with certain situations, which require them to be strong, smart and be proficient in firearms. The police in the world of the Avatar have to deal with more difficult situations, like chasing the Avatar through the streets on a Polar Bear Dog. It seems obvious to me, that like any job, those most capable of fulfilling the job requirements would be the one who is hired.
I feel one thing we might need to consider is how much bending is natural ability, and how much is due to training and practice. On her own, Katara only managed simple water bending techniques and even then required a lot of effort on her part. Most competent benders are seen to be adults or were dedicated to bending from a young age (Aang, Toph, Bolin, Mako). It seems that while there is some natural talent, the bulk of there power and abilities comes from practice and training. So if the bender has had to do years of training to get the advantage, why should the non-benders get to complain if they do not put in the same effort to better themselves?
Also complicated technology? A lot of the time the Equalists manage to subdue benders using only a bolas, a piece of cord with weights at both ends.
I don't think there is a difference. I'm pretty sure shooting fire from your hands comes under the definition of gifted =P
The problem I really have with this is that we are dealing with hypothetical's. This person could use there natural abilities to control people, this person could kill someone easily etc. Should we really take action and implement things like legislation based on what could potentially happen at some point? Or should we give people the benefit of the doubt, trust that they will do the right thing, and only take action when they've proven themselves to be irresponsible and dangerous.
You're forgetting things like metal-bending which could tear most of the more modern technology in TLOK apart, and lightning bending, a now fairly common place skill, that can kill a non-bender easy since they don't have the chi-pathways to use redirection.senordesol said:
Even in the TLA there were plenty of non-benders who fought back, a good portion of the cast could not bend and could fight off a bender, Ty Lee, Sokka and Mai come to mind immediately. The average person probably could not though, you're right about that.
OT: The Equalists most definitely have a point, in case you've forgotten one of the first things we see in the series are a group of thugs from a bending gang demanding payment from a presumably innocent shopkeeper. There's no doubt that some benders will use their power to oppress others, the Fire Nation did it for 100 years. Of course as the OP pointed out, the non-benders have no representation in the government, the council is composed of benders only.
That said, this isn't one sided, benders have a right to not have their powers taken away indiscriminately. I actually disagreed with the removal of bending at the end of TLA due to it amounting to spiritual rape, I still believe they may as well have killed Ozai for what it was worth.
To me they should be demanding equal representation for both benders and non-benders on the council, not 'equalizing' everyone. Amon is not wrong in wanting equality, but he's going about it the wrong way.
Yay blood bending is illegal. But when a blood bender is as powerfull as tarlock? Who can stop him? Weve seen only TWO EXAMPLES IN THE ENTIRE WORLD of people who can resist blood bending. The avatar in the avatar state. Which is obvious. And amon. Because that guys a freak of nature. A truely powerfull blood bender has TWO people in the world to fear and everyone else to enslave. Weve seen its possible to drive the avatar underground or kill them. Amon is likely only a mortal. Only two lives need to be taken to ensure almost a full lifetime of control over the population (until a new avatar comes along and is trained). Its illegal sure. In the same way its illegal for Dr Manhattan to steal a coke. But are you going to stop him? He could rip you apart in a second.pffh said:
Also the idea of an equal police force. Non benders can be self governed sure. But they CANNOT be self policed. Imagine if we were policed by a "stronger" naturally "faster" race of people, and not a single member of ours was in the police force. Wouldnt you feel naturally threatened by this ever present much more powerfull force that could control your life at the drop of a hat? I thought the entire point of the "American right to bare arms" is to be able to resist a tyranical government. What weapons do the non benders have to resist THIS police force? The oppertunity to undergo intense insane ninja training i guess. But thats freaking hard. You cant expect every man woman and child to do that. Integrating some of "amons" electro "benders" into the police force (i mean people with the same skills minus the evil) would be a lot better and a lot more fair.
That said i think providing as many non benders as possible with insane ninja training or the oppertunity therein would level the odds greatly. Also allow the electro gloves in public for every man woman and child. That way everyone has the POTENTIAL for power (like bending or ninja electro power) and its up to them to train it (same in both cases). To be weak is the fault of the person or the upper limit of any natural ability. It levels the playing field a lot more. Also metal benders? Use fucking copper. Or titanium. Seriously. Why are you using conductive iron/steel?! Thats INSANE.
What if something happened and Amon is REALLY an Avatar?
That's why Korra is, well, spiritually "dead"?
I mean...
Aang was FROZEN IN ICE FOR around 100 YEARS
Nearly killed
Removed of his 'Avatar State' - at least for a while
Maybe the writers are gearing up for something?
That's why Korra is, well, spiritually "dead"?
I mean...
Aang was FROZEN IN ICE FOR around 100 YEARS
Nearly killed
Removed of his 'Avatar State' - at least for a while
Maybe the writers are gearing up for something?
No, that is pretty much exactly the same. The entire idea is abhorrent.Anoni Mus said:
EDIT: Here is a slightly better example. The fastest runner in the world (No police could catch him on equal terms) decides to take up crime. After many chases he is finally caught and it is ruled that his legs be broken so he can never run again. That is effectively what we are talking about here.
i am going into speculation now. Amon IS a bender of some element, but because he wants to lead this revolution, he chooses to not do so. how do I know this? i believe, that he managed to master energy bending, the most basic type of bending.
when we break down Amon's intentions and plans and actions, are no different than the ones of the benders, that went down the wrong path: abuse of power for their personal gain.
what it all comes down to, the responsible, or irresponsible use of ones gift. i think it is unfair to judge a large group of people, just by the actions of the peeople, who use their power wrong.
the proper response to this should have come from the council, where they would have imposed stricter rules on bending, and harsher punishment on those, who missuse their power.
edit: simply creating a non bender nation, would mean, that at some point, families WILL be torn apart, and should the benders and non benders not get along because of his fact, war will happen, and we are in the same position we are in now
when we break down Amon's intentions and plans and actions, are no different than the ones of the benders, that went down the wrong path: abuse of power for their personal gain.
what it all comes down to, the responsible, or irresponsible use of ones gift. i think it is unfair to judge a large group of people, just by the actions of the peeople, who use their power wrong.
the proper response to this should have come from the council, where they would have imposed stricter rules on bending, and harsher punishment on those, who missuse their power.
edit: simply creating a non bender nation, would mean, that at some point, families WILL be torn apart, and should the benders and non benders not get along because of his fact, war will happen, and we are in the same position we are in now
Im still going on my hunch that amon is the face stealer from the first series
The equalists should went for a more peaceful way of getting better treatment but so should of the communists in many countries in the real world
(It is such an obvious metaphor though)
The equalists should went for a more peaceful way of getting better treatment but so should of the communists in many countries in the real world
(It is such an obvious metaphor though)
1. You make a good point with the minority/majority dilemma, however I can't help but stress that those enforcement agencies were exclusively comprised of benders (Correction: It's conceivable that the radio crew we saw last episode were NBs, but I'm talking about field officers). Consequently, it could be argued 'Not every bender will oppress you, but any one who will oppress you will be a bender (A gross over-generalization, I know, but it would no doubt carry significant weight with any NBs in earshot when they consider all the gross excesses that have happened over time).Lizardon said:
2. Those real-world officers are the result of hard work and training. While I'm sure the metal benders and the Dai Li DO train ridiculously hard, the fact that their organizations are (for all intents and purposes) exclusionary with regard to who can be a member of the enforcement team subverts the SECOND most important part of a police force: to inspire faith and trust in the community's safety. When the police force lords themselves above the populace in literal flying chariots, with access to powers no one who wasn't born with them could possibly hope to have; it's easy to see how what should inspire faith only inspires fear.
3. I'm talking straight-up average Joes here. You are born with bending ability, and even if you hone it just a bit to the point where you can produce a gout of flame, command a column of water, or raise a rock out of the ground; you've already mastered something a non-bender could not possibly hope to do with a lifetime of training. And you have it with you ALL THE TIME (maybe not water, but the other ones anyway). Conversely Bolas, and Powergloves only work like that if you have them with you ALL THE TIME. The only exception is a mastery of chi blocking; but that only works if you're close enough to touch your assailant. Without a ridiculous mastery of gymnastics as well; your chances go way down against even basic benders. As an example: remember Ep1 of the original TLA? Where Katara was so untrained that she could only freeze bend backwards? Even that lack of skill was of no help to that Non-bending FN soldier (who probably when through months of weapon and hand-to-hand combat training).
4. Well that's the crux of the matter isn't it? Sadly, I don't think there are any valid real-world analogues to compare this to so it is simply an academic exercise. If a man has the ability -from birth (with some honing, of course)- to make you commit actions against your own will with no means to resist him when he does it; do you wait until he actually does it before you consider him dangerous?
Now I am actually for a separate nation. Even with better representation amongst the existing governments (which I am not particularly against) Non-benders will always remain at the mercy of benders. That is, unless they are unified and capable of mounting a defense without interference from the likes of Tarlok. Now, I can't point to any particular line in the show that expressly says this; but I'm pretty sure that chi blocking training is illegal, and power gloves certainly are. Why? If a man can walk down the street with the ability engulf me in flames in moments, why can't I walk down the street with a nice -ahem- 'equalizer' at my disposal? I would argue it is because benders -on even the most subconscious of levels- don't want to give up their power over the NBs.
Now I agree that making the benders 'the same as you' is not the way to handle it. I think, though, that if there was a place where one didn't have to worry about it; it would be a solution that would make everybody happy.