Poll: To all UK Escapists - a new BNP thread (please no flaming) (UPDATED OCTOBER 23rd)

[Trivun]

Note - before reading, be warned that there is a lot of information here. Please don't post any flame comments, anybody caught posting in a disrespectful or antagonistic way will be instantly reported to the mods by PM. I will be monitoring this thread closely since I don't relish the thought of having this thread, intended for serious debate, locked because of a few idiots. You have been warned.

So there's been talk at my university, the University of Leeds, about whether or not the BNP should be allowed to come to campus and discuss their policies with students in an open debate. Our Student Union has been extremely vocal in previous years about the BNP and the fact that they will not be welcome on campus, especially after last year a BNP rally against Music of Black Origin was held outside HMV in the city centre. Students organised a counter rally for the same day, yet the police argued and fought against the students rather than the actual BNP supporters. This year, now, there is widespread debate within the university about whether or not we should invite BNP representatives to campus to debate their policies with Leeds students.

Now, personally, I think we should. It's simply the case that the BNP are just another political party, but their policies are at worst extreme fascism and at best simply too far to the right. Personally I'm a Conservative voter. I have no problem with homosexuality. I have Asian, Afro-Carribean and Eatern European friends. I am partly Serbian on my dad's side, though I've never been there and consider myself fully English. So I definitely don't agree with the BNP's policies. But likewise, I don't agree with the EU, but if the EU were to send representatives to Leeds, or any other university in the UK, I wouldn't hesitate to grab the chance to discuss with them the EU policies, such as the Lisbon Treaty. So what makes the BNP so different? Is it simply that we don't want to give a platform to fascists because of the risk of backlash from the LGBT, Asian, Afro-Carribean, etc. communities at the university?

The situation is further compounded by the fact that last summer, the Leeds Student Union (LUU) held their annual election among (30,000) students in Leeds for a new Student Council. One of the new officers, who will remain unnamed (though if there are any other Leeds students here they'll know who I'm talking about), happens to be Jewish, and was involved in a bit of controversy last year when he allegedly yelled abuse at a group of demonstrators who had taken over a campus building in protest against the Israel/Palestine war. There hence remains a question over his impartiality, to a certain extent, and also (due to his religion) his own authority as a member of the Student Council over the decision to allow the BNP to come to campus for a debate.

So my question is this - Should we invite the BNP to campus? I'm especially interested to hear from any other Leeds students on the subject (though I respect that there will probably be very few Leeds students on The Escapist), as well as those in other universities across the country who may be engaged in similar debate. What are the pros and cons of letting students and the BNP discuss party policy? Is it the right of the BNP to be allowed onto campus under the terms of free speech? Does the student union have any right to stop them discussing policy on the Leeds campus? Please post your thoughts here, I'm eager to see what everyone has to say on the subject. Non-UK Escapists are also welcome to give their thoughts as well.

EDIT: For the record, although I doubt there are many BNP supporters here, if there are then I'd also be interested to know what their reaction and thoughts are. If any BNP supporters here do post, then please do NOT flame them or make any negative comments against them personally, I don't want any flaming, as I've said before. Thank you.

 

[ZeroMachine]

I'm from America, but I still figured I could give my input... go ahead and let them. Let anyone interested listen to them. Just make sure they know not to do or say anything hateful, and be prepared for an active and probably fairly rough protest outside. That doesn't seem like the sort of group that you can let speak anywhere without there being some major backlash. You just have to be prepared.

 

[Kollega]

I think you should let them,because:

A) You can call them out on their bullshit and morally crush them using cold,hard logic.

B) You can organize the burning of swastika and defacing of Hitler's portraits outside.

C) If things go south,you can just throw rotten tomatoes and bricks at them.

 

[fix-the-spade]

Sure why not, but make sure they don't know who their audience will be before hand (ethnically and gender wise). It won't change their behaviour, ubt it's priceless watching a bnp representative walk into a room full of 'not english' (in my case mostly Poles and Portugese), they look round the room and yuo can see the colour drain out of their face. It's great.

The only thing that really worries me about the BNP is that they are gradually weaseling their way into respectability. In the last month they've had people taking on Radio 1 and 2 of all things, they seems to be quietly and subtly expanding their following and doing it largely through misdirection.

Which is a problem, if you do have a bnp rep in, make sure EVERYONE gets a copy of their manifesto. It's really quite a sickening read and in person they go out of their way to dress it up as something else.

Just make sure they know not to do or say anything hateful

That's kind of a contradiction with the bnp. For example, they don't support (in fact are actively against) equal employment and healthcare rights for people who are not 'ethnically british'. Ethnic british being defined as white anglo-saxon from the UK or Ireland only. Trivun wouldn't be a full citizen to them, he's part Serbian, so not ethnically british. Neither is anyone who is black, asian, far eastern and so on, it's an incredibly narrow, discrimnative (and in my opinion dangerous) view.

Asking them not to say anything hateful basically means they either not turn up or lie.

 

[bodyklok]

When you have people like the BNP, the best way to stop them from getting support is showing the voters just how foolish this party really is. So go straight ahead.

What worries me is that they'll get pelted with potatoes and cry to the media, possible gaining them more support, but I'd say the possible rewards out weight the risks.

 

[Trivun]

Ethnic british being defined as white anglo-saxon from the UK or Ireland only. Trivun wouldn't be a full citizen to them, he's part Serbian, so not ethnically british. Neither is anyone who is black, asian, far eastern and so on, it's an incredibly narrow, discrimnative (and in my opinion dangerous) view.

That's actually a very good point. I'm partly Serbian simply because my grandparents emigrated to the UK years ago and met here, my dad and uncle were both born in Britain, but even though they were born and raised here and I was born and raised here, I would still be kicked out, into a country I've never been to, don't know the language of, and know almost nothing about. And that is a major problem. What about all the people who have lived here since the early 1900s, and even before them, who aren't fully white? What about the Ghurkas? All would get kicked out, without any good reason.

I feel that a major part, therefore, of the reasoning behind the Union Council decision may in fact be because there is at least one black member on the council (the Equality and Diversity Officer, interestingly enough), and a Jewish member, both of whom would be discrimnated against by the BNP. Hence they would have the power to help overturn any decision allowing the BNP to come to Leeds. However, if given enough pressure from the student population they would have to invite the BNP to campus to speak, and an upcoming referendum in the union may well potentially help shift the opinion of the student body to allowing the BNP to speak. Ironically, the current ruling against it was linked to an earlier referendum held two years ago refusing fascists a platform to speak in the university...

 

[Poopie McGhee]

Just asking is the BNP a racist party? what are their views?

 

[wooty]

I say let them go, after all they are a "political" party after all, your only hearing their views, its not an actual vote, might be a good opportunity as Kollega said, to corner them on their narrow minded agenda and force them on the back foot. If I recall from what my old housemate says, Leeds has quite a mixed ethnic student population, could be good for them to tell the BNP where to go.

Even if there is a protest that turns bad, at least all the copies of Mein Kampf theyll be handing out will make good missiles , I hear they're heavy

 

[Deschain]

I think they should be allowed to say their thing. Mainly because it's at a university and most of the students will rip their policies to shreds. We live in a society where you can say anything (within reason) that you want, but that also means that other people can say whatever they want about what you say.

Convoluted, I know, but I think I made my point...

 

[Smudge91]

We're interviewing patrick magee in a few weeks which i thought was rather controversal. I think they should be able to say what they believe in but then they have to be open up to opposition and questions from their argument. If we confront the BNP intellectually then their argument fails to be honest. Like Deschain has said, most of the students there will be politics students and will have a whale of a time ripping what they have to sheds. It would be fun for someone to stand up and prove to them that they are racist and try to wriggle out of it.

 

[messy]

Let people see how racist they are, by refusing them they can play the victim card and attract more ignorant people to the cause. Also I can't wait till they come on question time

 

[EchetusXe]

It is up to whoever organizes it. The BNP got around 4% of the vote in Leeds at the 2005 General Election, so if you have several parties there then they should definitely be included.

If you want to go for the major parties of Conservatives, Liberal Democrat and Labour then don't invite them.

 

[Legion]

Let people see how racist they are, by refusing them they can play the victim card and attract more ignorant people to the cause. Also I can't wait till they come on question time

Agreed. By stopping them from doing what they have every right to do (Discuss their policies with the public) we are giving them a chance to claim unfair treatment which can be more damaging.

Let them talk, let them explain their policies, and trust that the majority of British people are not stupid enough to follow a bunch of racist, homophobic bigots.

 

[Jim Grim]

If they're prepared to be called all the names under the sun, and possibly jeered at by protesting students, then go ahead and let them talk to the minority of people who are interested/agree with them. I see no problem here.

 

[GrinningManiac]

They're not allowed to be an organisation anymore, did you hear?

According to the Equal Oppertunities "thing" that goes about businesses these days, the BNP is kind of "illegal" in that it dosen't have ethnic workers, thereby not giving them as equal an oppertunity as their white counterparts.

I kinda want the BNP to win in the general elections. That way, I can go down to London and RIOT THE HELL OUT OF EVERYTHING, participating in what everyone KNOWS will be the riot of the century, going down in history as an important rights event

 

[AfterAscon]

As has already been said, you need them to publicly express their views so we can discuss them and show people why they are wrong. To be honest I'm not that aware of BNP policies, other than an abosolute No to immigration, so it would be interesting to see them try and act as a proper party and not just the victims. I also don't see the debate getting past we're right and your wrong, but they should be allowed regardless.

 

[Ben7]

Just asking is the BNP a racist party? what are their views?

http://bnp.org.uk/policies/

 

[Rolling Thunder]

Sociopathic facists? Ha. Let them come. I need fear only the gods.