Poll: To all UK Escapists - a new BNP thread (please no flaming) (UPDATED OCTOBER 23rd)

[The Cheezy One]

According to the Equal Oppertunities "thing" that goes about businesses these days, the BNP is kind of "illegal" in that it dosen't have ethnic workers, thereby not giving them as equal an oppertunity as their white counterparts.

according to the law, they need to hire a black worker maybe robert mugabe? they have the same policies [taste that satire ladies and gentlemen]
i actually got a leaflet throught the door that basically surmised to "its not racist to hate people from other countries and wish them dead"
i constantly go on the daily mail poll and vote against whatever their readers do i.e. with common sense
OT: it would be hypocritical of me to deny them free speech, when i am a supporter of it, but on the other hand it is basically a hate speech, which doesnt count as free speech
in short: go to hell you fear mongering racist fascist scum

EDIT: apologies for the flaming, but i cannot take them seriously.

 

[Pillypill]

Free speech has very little to do with this, they can say and believe what they want. But it's not within the right to free speech to march into a public place and preach hate. UoL will need to consider if they want the BNP, more likely than not, offending their attending students. Quite frankly as a student i was very 'active', so the BNP may get their teeth kicked in.

 

[FightThePower]

No flaming? In a BNP thread? You've have got to be kidding me.

No, they shouldn't be allowed to; screw free speech, they're fascists and should not be allowed to gain any legitimacy as a political party. Personally I think they should not be allowed to even exist.

 

[Ben Legend]

I think they should be allowed to say their thing. Mainly because it's at a university and most of the students will rip their policies to shreds. We live in a society where you can say anything (within reason) that you want, but that also means that other people can say whatever they want about what you say.

Convoluted, I know, but I think I made my point...

Us students are a Harsh Breed. =D

 

[similar.squirrel]

I'd let them. If anything, they'll be soundly humiliated by people more intelligent than themselves. That will lower morale, and maybe even change opinions.

 

[Deathsong17]

Right wing! Right wing!

Anyway, no, BNP are racist. They shouldn't be allowed yo exist let alone visit schools. After all, they specifically single out black immigrants; what sort of message does that leave?

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

Yes, if we refuse to meet them in debate, so we can show other people how ridiculous their opinions are, then people might think they have something decent to say.

Besides, I believe strongly in democracy, even when that means that we need to aknowledge the views of racist bastards so that we can argue them don.

 

[cartzo]

dont they teach about "the holocaust" as part of history in leeds university? and yet the BNP say that the holocaust is a conspiracy theory, why should they let the BNP debate at the university, if they are going to do that then they may as well let creationists debate in science classrooms.

I do not believe that the BNP should have public free speech (emphasis on public), I am sure if you were to look it up somewhere you'd find that it is actually illegal for the same reason that micheal savage is not allowed on the radio in this country and is therefore not allowed in this country.

But i am no expert so dont hold me to it, you've got the basic idea of my opinion though.

 

[Leodiensian]

So there's been talk at my university, the University of Leeds, about whether or not the BNP should be allowed to come to campus and discuss their policies with students in an open debate. Our Student Union has been extremely vocal in previous years about the BNP and the fact that they will not be welcome on campus, especially after last year a BNP rally against Music of Black Origin was held outside HMV in the city centre. Students organised a counter rally for the same day, yet the police argued and fought against the students rather than the actual BNP supporters. This year, now, there is widespread debate within the university about whether or not we should invite BNP representatives to campus to debate their policies with Leeds students.
[ker-snip]

Personally, I find the BNP a disgusting bunch, and UKIP aren't exactly better. It's a sad turn of events that recent events in UK politics have led to such a loss of faith in the 'big three' (Conservatives, Labour and Lib Dems) that fringe nutjob parties such as these are gaining ground.

That being said, I do believe that they should have the right to argue their policies, just like any other party. Until the BNP get their way, the United Kingdom is still a free country and this includes freedom of speech. I do not agree with what they say, but they have the right to say it. We have to trust that the majority of people are sane, empathic and decent enough to recognise the BNP's bile for what it is and ignore them. I know some people will still vote for them, but I find comfort in the thought that they will never rise to actual, credible power and will, by and large, stay on the fringes of British politics, right next to the Monster Raving Loony Party.

In fact, they may find it a good idea for those two to merge.

Besides, you're students. By and large, you are most likely educated, politically aware and tend towards moderate and left wing politics. You are EXACTLY the opposite of what the BNP would consider 'fertile recruiting ground'. They won't gain much ground at the Uni and will probably find themselves publically mocked and dismantled. Just remember to go for the "devastating wit" attack rather than "flung eggs", because you shouldn't give them the opportunity to martyr themselves.

I am, however, interested to find out that OP is from the same city as me (hence my user name). I left Leeds for Birmingham a few years ago, to study, so the rally at HMV is news to me.

 

[amrl]

No, I don't think you should. For all the reasons you've listed in the poll and more.
If we start letting them have these things then it will become more acceptable to follow their party and that is the last thing we want.
What's the next step? Speaking at Primary schools? No.

 

[Superbeast]

Let them come to the uni - they have a right to be heard.

Just as everyone else has the right to be outraged and object, question and highlight dodgy parts of the manifesto.

And as a good friend of mine says "If you stop them from turning up, they don't show. If they don't show you can't see them, and if you can't see them you can't throw stuff at them"

No, I don't think you should. For all the reasons you've listed in the poll and more.
If we start letting them have these things then it will become more acceptable to follow their party and that is the last thing we want.
What's the next step? Speaking at Primary schools? No.

However by refusing them any time to spread their views (and for the vast, vast majority of the public to realise how abhorrent they are) gives them the "victim card" that will draw a surprising amount of supporters to their cause.

As a political party (they're not disbanded yet) they have a right to be heard. If we start banning political parties then we cannot accuse them of being the fascists they are, since "we" (the state and populace) have banned someone's right to free speech/action which is a very fascist thing.

No politician should be allowed to speak in primary school. Ever. Because the children are too impressionable and most politicians wouldn't have a second thought about persuading them to support a certain party for life.

 

[The Rockerfly]

No. I believe in freedom of speech, I'm sure with 90% of people would agree with freedom of speech

So why do the majority want a limit on it? Can't you face the fact that people have the right to state their opinions no matter how stupid or discriminative their views are

You can't have some freedom of speech. You either do or you don't, simple as that and I think university students should be mature enough to decide whether or not they like that party.

Plus the amount of people who have wrong opinions on the BMP is ridiculous, it would be nice to get the right end of the stick of these guys

 

[Poopie McGhee]

Just asking is the BNP a racist party? what are their views?

http://bnp.org.uk/policies/

thanks... umm... it'd open peoples eyes...

 

[Zombie_Fish]

"No, because we should not give a platform to fascists."
That kind of sounds a bit like fascism, doesn't it?

This is why I try to never get caught up in political protests aimed at the BNP: whilst they are (in my opinion) evil and anti-liberal and anti-equality in all ways, shapes and formes, denying them their right to speak is just being hypocritical of your original intentions of equality and liberal rights. As a friend of mine said about the political activist group that threw eggs at Nick Griffin: 'They're just digging themselves a big hole.'

But I decided to vote yes for your other reason presented in the poll, [user]Trivun[/user]: I find that the BNP would be interesting to hear from and discuss with. This coming from the voice of a Liberal Democrat supporter (albeit, one too young to vote) may seem a bit weird, but political debate could be interesting to hear from. Also helps you to get a view of the wider perspective and what the less well known parties have to say; whilst a lot of their policies may be fascist and discriminatory, there may be something interesting or to expand on in the policies.

And at worst, debate's always fun and you can choose to poke holes at them if you like.

In the end, you were right when you said that they are just another political party and should therefore be accepted as another political party as well and treated to talks/ discussions/ debates at universities accordingly.

 

[Lord George]

I think they should get to speak so people can see just how retarded there views are.

 

[Crayzor]

I don't think a political group that promotes racial hatred and seeks to overthrow democracy should be allowed to legally exist at all, let alone have contact with students. However, I do think people need to have their eyes opened to what the BNP actually stand for. Too many people support them because they misunderstand BNP policies (eg, kicking ethnic minorites out, not just stopping immigration). I do hope they are allowed on Question Time, just because I hope to see them get ridiculed be other politicans

 

[Trivun]

So there's been talk at my university, the University of Leeds, about whether or not the BNP should be allowed to come to campus and discuss their policies with students in an open debate. Our Student Union has been extremely vocal in previous years about the BNP and the fact that they will not be welcome on campus, especially after last year a BNP rally against Music of Black Origin was held outside HMV in the city centre. Students organised a counter rally for the same day, yet the police argued and fought against the students rather than the actual BNP supporters. This year, now, there is widespread debate within the university about whether or not we should invite BNP representatives to campus to debate their policies with Leeds students.
[ker-snip]

Personally, I find the BNP a disgusting bunch, and UKIP aren't exactly better. It's a sad turn of events that recent events in UK politics have led to such a loss of faith in the 'big three' (Conservatives, Labour and Lib Dems) that fringe nutjob parties such as these are gaining ground.

That being said, I do believe that they should have the right to argue their policies, just like any other party. Until the BNP get their way, the United Kingdom is still a free country and this includes freedom of speech. I do not agree with what they say, but they have the right to say it. We have to trust that the majority of people are sane, empathic and decent enough to recognise the BNP's bile for what it is and ignore them. I know some people will still vote for them, but I find comfort in the thought that they will never rise to actual, credible power and will, by and large, stay on the fringes of British politics, right next to the Monster Raving Loony Party.

In fact, they may find it a good idea for those two to merge.

Besides, you're students. By and large, you are most likely educated, politically aware and tend towards moderate and left wing politics. You are EXACTLY the opposite of what the BNP would consider 'fertile recruiting ground'. They won't gain much ground at the Uni and will probably find themselves publically mocked and dismantled. Just remember to go for the "devastating wit" attack rather than "flung eggs", because you shouldn't give them the opportunity to martyr themselves.

I am, however, interested to find out that OP is from the same city as me (hence my user name). I left Leeds for Birmingham a few years ago, to study, so the rally at HMV is news to me.

Interestingly enough, I'm from Birmingham originally (well, Wednesbury, but close enough, within 5 miles at any rate) aqnd live in Leeds to study. Although I want to stay in Leeds if possible, I never really liked Birmingham that much to begin with.

And yes, I concede that you have a point. I find myself surrounded by politics anyway since I'm Conservative and I have a housemate who is the vice chair of the student union Labour Committee. Another housemate is on the editorial news team for the student newspaper, and our landlord is a staunch Conservative who invited Margaret Thatcher to his wedding. Apparently she didn't have the time though she sent him a nice letter back apologising that she couldn't make it.

But that's beside the point. The main thing is, as students, we are definitely aware of the political situation, because it affects us more now than it has ever done before, and indeed, may ever do again. We're the next generation, the people who will be voting for years to come. So surely we should get a say in whether our elected representatives within the student community should be able to prevent us from allowing such a party as the BNP to speak at our university? No-one can really deny that we are capable of making up our own minds, so preventing the BNP from speaking is effectively another form of fascism, as Max said (in one of his rare non-thread-derailing posts). We can hear what they have to say and then show them that they're wrong with cold, hard logic. That's just my opinion, of course, but I simply feel it's a valid point to think about.

 

[Simalacrum]

Me and my father actually had a rather similar discussion about the BNP upon whether they should be allowed to go onto the Question Time show, actually.

We concluded that yes, we should let them on for two reasons: a) if we don't then the BNP may take that as evidence of their claim that the major parties are trying to supress their rights to free speech, and b) its better for them to be publically humiliated and ridiculed than left in the dark were people don't know what they're like.

I think the same might apply with them comming to Leeds: just make sure that its a discussion, rather than just BNP propaganda.