Poll: To the anime haters

[Cowabungaa]

I'm certain most people wouldn't like Yu-Gi-Oh on here (or most shonen for that matter).

Thing is, that's the anime style most people who barely know anime actually know about and are somewhat familiar with. Hence why I always want to include an example of it, for the sake of contrast, to show what the baseline is.

The reason, I suppose is that I'm doing a large project and need to determine a general style to animate in that will turn away the least people possible right off the bat.

In that case I'd go for something like Gantz, where the people seem to look rather natural, mixed with Ghibli's colourfulness and shading.

And don't forget the actual animation itself. A lot of anime styles feature rather simple animation techniques, where you can only see a few parts of the face moving, making them look almost robotic and without much emotion. I think a lot of anime-haters are put off by that as well, or at least sub-conciously. We're not used to it here in the West, especially during this generation when we're used to Pixar-style animation.

There's also the question of shading, something which a lot of anime styles also lack or only have in limited form, making faces seem flat. That too makes them less expressive, and I think that's why Studio Ghibli films find an easier audience in the West; they've done that marvelously.

 

[axlryder]

See my post above. Each anime I listed has a very distinctive aesthetic. They aren't defined by the genre or studio so much as the original manga artist. Of course if I said Miura's style, Hirano's style, and Oku's style then no one would know who I was talking about.

Sometimes... sometimes not...

Take Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, you watch the series and all's well and good... read the manga and instantly go: WTF how retro can you get?!

Visual styles often undergo a lot of change from manga to anime, like Gunslinger Girl... which looked a tad too shiny in the first anime adaptation...

Also, original anime end up having an aesthetic that reflects the natural artistic prejudices of the studio (or whoever the lead animators are) that makes them. Just look at Gankutsuou (Gonzo)... uh-yeeesh..., Samurai 7 (Production IG) and Ergo Proxy (Manglobe). (Sorry for regurgitating the same studio names...)

You're right, the studio definitely affects style. They have the same artists work for them so how could they not? That said, the anime I listed (with the exception of CB and SC, which admittedly were both animations originally, but still retain a unique aesthetic) are more reminiscent of the artist than the studio style. Miyazaki/ghibli is sort of their own thing. I think we can compromise and stay studios and artists can often define their own style.

 

[axlryder]

I'm certain most people wouldn't like Yu-Gi-Oh on here (or most shonen for that matter).

Thing is, that's the anime style most people who barely know anime actually know about and are somewhat familiar with. Hence why I always want to include an example of it, for the sake of contrast, to show what the baseline is.

The reason, I suppose is that I'm doing a large project and need to determine a general style to animate in that will turn away the least people possible right off the bat.

In that case I'd go for something like Gantz, where the people seem to look rather natural, mixed with Ghibli's colourfulness and shading.

And don't forget the actual animation itself. A lot of anime styles feature rather simple animation techniques, where you can only see a few parts of the face moving, making them look almost robotic and without much emotion. I think a lot of anime-haters are put off by that as well, or at least sub-conciously. We're not used to it here in the West, especially during this generation when we're used to Pixar-style animation.

There's also the question of shading, something which a lot of anime styles also lack or only have in limited form, making faces seem flat. That too makes them less expressive, and I think that's why Studio Ghibli films find an easier audience in the West; they've done that marvelously.

Well considering it will be mostly a one man show aside from voice acting, I'm going to have to compromise on the animation by limiting the frame rates and details. That said, there are things that can be done to work around this. Interesting angles and excellent key frames can help to counteract that. Good coloring and backgrounds help too, etc.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Well considering it will be mostly a one man show aside from voice acting, I'm going to have to compromise on the animation by limiting the frame rates and details. That said, there are things that can be done to work around this. Interesting angles and excellent key frames can help to counteract that. Good coloring and backgrounds help too, etc.

It's expressiveness you need as well, that's real important. Look at the sort of thing we get from Western animation these days; incredibly plastic (not the material, but the adjective) faces that contort in all sorts of expressions. Now of course, that's also thanks to most modern Western animation films are 3D animated, but even with 2D animation you can find some sort of solution for it. As you said, good colouring helps, tricks with the light, etc etc.

 

[GigaHz]

It's not the visuals that I dislike about anime (though sometimes they can look goofy or flat out ridiculous) it's mostly the narrative style, the character archetypes/stereotypes, and sometimes because they are predictably or awkwardly paced.

I don't know, it just never seemed to have a lot of diversity to me, at least on the surface. It's the one form of media that I could look at and say "Oh, that's Anime". Call me crazy but I think that American and European cartoons have more visual and subject diversity.

 

[axlryder]

Well considering it will be mostly a one man show aside from voice acting, I'm going to have to compromise on the animation by limiting the frame rates and details. That said, there are things that can be done to work around this. Interesting angles and excellent key frames can help to counteract that. Good coloring and backgrounds help too, etc.

It's expressiveness you need as well, that's real important. Look at the sort of thing we get from Western animation these days; incredibly plastic (not the material, but the adjective) faces that contort in all sorts of expressions. Now of course, that's also thanks to most modern Western animation films are 3D animated, but even with 2D animation you can find some sort of solution for it. As you said, good colouring helps, tricks with the light, etc etc.

Ah yes, definitely. Two of the biggest things I wanted to focus on were avoiding stale shot framing and creating very expressive, yet subtle facial expressions. Thanks for the advice.

 

[neonsword13-ops]

I really like the style used in Gurren Lagann.

Spoiler

It's like if a comic book with incredible cell shading and ordinary anime had sweet, lusty sex and made a baby.

 

[shadowseal22]

While there is a laundry list of things I don't like about anime, it all really boils down to one thing. In general anime, both TV shows and movies, tend to seem cheap. The simple fact is that a majority of the cartoons that come out of not only the US, but most other countries, are far superior to their anime contemporaries. Japanese cartoons traditionally tend to rely on a heavy use of limited animation, and an over abundance of key frames. For the most part it doesn't even matter what show a person is watching, because at any given point in time only one or two things will be moving on the screen. Having everything stand still, and only having mouth flaps is just lazy, and the fact that the Japanese animation studios not only get away for it, but are also praised for it is just mind-boggleing. In the west animators will rarly use key frames, and if they do they will be very, very, short. However in anime there are sections of show that will have key frames that can last upwards of 25 seconds. Once somebody starts to notice these lazy animation processes it becomes hard to enjoy some of the work. The other big issue I have with anime is it's form of storytelling. The fact of the matter is that the story of most of the popular anime epics, could be told in about 1/5 of the time if the writers didn't pad them out so much. Well that's just my 2 cents.

 

[ex275w]

Well can't answer for everyone but here is why anime is hated according to what I've seen:

1) It's foreign so they it threatens their status quo.

2) For male teenagers some of it can look girly what with some series having big eyed characters.

3) They watched Naruto/DBZ/Sailor Moon/Bleach/Code Geass/Death Note and thought it was cliched crap, which some of it is.

4) They hate Japanese people.

5) They hate colorful crap/caricatures of human beings.

6) They are smug and like to crap on stuff that's "beneath" them.

7) They find the animation and/or voice acting lacking and boring.

8) They dislike the stories/tropes.

9) They like to generalize/stereotype stuff they don't like and pull out strawman arguments.

10) They haven't seen anything they liked, because they haven't done their research about stuff they'd like and thus they hate the whole medium.

11) They like to troll/make fun of anime fans.

12) They dislike unrealistic things. (hair colors and the size of swords as stereotyped)

In the end anime is just a way to identify the stereotypical japanese animation so I just consider it part of the medium that animation occupies. Animation in general has suffered the same problems as comics and videogames in that they are seen as stuff for little kids/sweaty manchildren.

 

[Pegghead]

Gantz style

Spoiler

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, OH WOW.

In all seriousness, while I don't hate anime I've always had a problem with the animation. I've seen one or two more modern animes and I've found it doesn't really apply there, but the animation in some of the older shows was just...creepily unnatural, which gave the impression that they hired a team of experienced, dedicated artist for all the cells and backgrounds then just left the job of animation to a two year old. I guess if you could take anything from that it would be that a balance between the quality of the art and the animation must be maintained.

And uh, I'll turn a blind eye to your hot-linking :3

 

[Strain42]

What I dislike about (a vast majority) of anime is not how it looks. It's what it does. You can't argue that there are a lot of fairly common archtypes in Japanese culture that often show up in anime and JRPGs and such. (I'm not saying Western culture doesn't have its fair share of these as well, but we're not here to discuss those)

So it's not the style, but how the characters act that usually bothers me.

I would hate Bleach, Naruto, Inuyasha and all the other series I dislike just as much if they were western cartoons, or even just novels with no visual style at all.

My favorite manga for example is Kindaichi Case Files. I don't like it because of the visual style of it. I like it because they're really good murder mysteries and I'm a huge whodunit fan.

 

[Random Fella]

I never watch anime
But i'm not one to bash it either
To be honest all of those art styles look the same to me, and I don't really like any of them
So I can't really provide an answer because the last option just seems like it is there for ignorance.

 

[ex275w]

Oh yeah to add to the people that are saying that the animation in cheaper.
Apparently a typical episode from a japanese show costs 10%-20% from what a single episode from a typical American cartoon show would cost.

Only Gainax, Kyoto Animation, Production I.G., Sunrise and sometimes Madhouse and BONES can produce decent budgets.

Japan has truly mastered limited animation.

 

[Nouw]

Style is irrelevant to me, the content however...

 

[Justyn Stahll]

Anime is fine as long as it does'nt go to overboard...

 

[Saulkar]

I love the anime artstyle! What I hate about anime is the caricature acting style used by Japanese voice actors combined with the inhuman, hyper emotional behaviour overtly present throughout all of anime. Lastly, I hate the hyper stylization of everything related to fighting (including shouting out the name of your attack), I do not know what it is but I can tolerate this.
Compared to this:


Lastly I cannot stand how anime mechs work. Why make something super large that moves like a human instead of just using a human.
Compare this:
To This:

I guess in the end it all boils down not to the art style at all which is greatly endeared to me but rather the stylised acting and the complete disregard for physics. Western mechs and gunfights are not anymore realistic (Except for Gears, they do not break the laws of physics in any way), they just try to acknowledge that physics actually exist.

 

[redisforever]

I don't watch anime. However, I do love Miyazaki. Amazing stuff.