Poll: Unschooling: Parenting at it's worst

[AndyFromMonday]

I agree with the idea of letting children learn what they want to learn. Giving that everything that is being teached after 4th grade is only done so for "common knowledge" and won't serve of any help when it comes to adulthood I believe children should be allowed to learn what they want to learn or not participate at all if they don't find anything meaningful.

What I'm saying is this. You SHOULD force children to learn to read and write and basic mathematics due to the fact that these things WILL come in handy. HOWEVER, forcing them to attend school just for the sake of attending is just plain moronic. It should be the students choice what he wants to learn about, not the teachers or the parents.

EDIT: I should also mention I'm completely against tests and grades. Here's a quote that should explain why: Ivan Illich - "Schooling confuses teaching with learning, grades with education, diplomas with competence, attendance with attainment, and, especially, process with substance."

 

[GothmogII]

I read a very good book on this a while ago. Basically, it's something of a reactionary philosophy against the current standard school system. It focuses mainly on the individual taking alternative paths with regards to their education.

It is most certainly not anti-education, nor just parents allowing their children to run wild.

However...though this doesn't mean there is no structure at all, without support, parental or otherwise, in much the same way as home-schooling, it mostly relies on the child themselves taking control of their own education, this of course isn't really the ideal situation, what kid would willingly put that kind of effort in? Though, I'm sure the are some exceptions.

 

[hawkeye52]

the law in england dictates that all children have to go to school unless under exceptional circumstancese they require to be taught at home. (for example if they have some sort of very severe ADD or autism)this usually means however the child in question has been expelled from the school for those reasons.

edit @andy
the thing is though is that unless you're child after the 4th grade has determined that hes gonna do some vocational career like plumbing or some other sort of specialised menial work then yes it would be pointless in making them do something like english or history to an extent but the point of making them do these subjects is it keeps their options open as not many children know what they want to do when they are older. for example when i was like 4 or 5 i wanted to be a tesla tank from red alert not the driver the actual tank. however then i realised that i couldnt do this so i then i wanted to be a footballer (soccer) up until about 9-10. then i realised i was to shit to be a footballer and i didnt know what i wanted to be when i was older after that until first year of college 16-18 and thats a solicitor but i oculdnt have taken that if i didnt carry on with english (which i hated). the other reason why we have these things is so that we are able to show an intelligence level that is accepted by everyone in that country for example for my GCSE's (year 11 exams for you americans) i got 7 B's, 2 A's and a C which shows that my academic skill is above someone who say got straight C's and therefore im the better candidate to be picked for the better schools and jobs later on in life because thats all life one long competition effectively with the people who are better at things getting the best things.

 

[TheFacelessOne]

That...Shaun kid...I..confused...

Anyways, I think this is reatrded. It doesn't seem like they are getting any education.

But personally, if I were a child presented with this opportunity, I would jump for it. I'd spend my day playing games and watching the History channel. Having fun and learning. More than I can say for real school.

But at the same time, you're screwed when you grow up.

 

[Gunner 51]

Judging by the rubbish education Britain has these days, perhaps this home-schooling malarky might just work out. But home-schooling, like school itself is only as good as the teacher giving the lessons.

I'd disagree, at least where I am it's not so much the schools fault as it is that of the child and parents. I fully accept where I live might be the exception and not the norm, but I wouldn't trust some of the people near where I live to educate a child as all he would know is how to go to the shops for them and how to roll a cig.

I can understand how you arrive to your conclusion, Demon. There's a lot of people here in Wales who don't exactly have two brain cells to rub together.

But then again, how did so many people in this country end up so thick? It wasn't home-schooling, but their own lack of commitment at school back in the 70's and 80's as well as the erosion of standards on their school's part at the time.

But having said all that, going back to a 1950's model of schooling, surely cannot be the way, can it?

I can foresee this problem getting even worse in Britain from Tony Blair's Labour Party "dumbing down" the exam standards even more than they were back in the 70's and 80's.

 

[Magnalian]

It's a wonderful ideal, but it's not realistic. It would be cool if this could actually work out, but school teaches so much more that boring old algebra. Social interaction, for instance, and as the reporter in that video puts it, it's a way to broaden your interests.

These people can do whatever the hell they want for all I care, but if I ever have kids (yeah, right) they WILL go to school. It's the sensible thing to do.

 

[TheSquirrelisKing]

As big of a fan of traditional education as I am, I must say that I don't see much terribly wrong with this. Frankly, all the so called "important stuff" the "life lessons" as you might call them, I never learned a single one in school. I think this could work if the child has a desire to educate themselves and that desire is properly nurtured by the parents. As for the idea that the parents are letting the kids "do whatever", that would be a problem. It would be up to the parents to see what the child enjoys and is good at and gently encourage exploration in those areas.
Just because a person doesn't go to school doesn't mean that they can't survive or contribute to a modern society. Just do a bit of digging, I assure you several examples will pop up in short order.

 

[Gunner 51]

Judging by the rubbish education Britain has these days, perhaps this home-schooling malarky might just work out. But home-schooling, like school itself is only as good as the teacher giving the lessons.

I'd have to disagree on your last point. Schooling can only be as good as the retarded controlling money sucking administration will allow the teachers to be. My mom is a special ed teacher and she and all her peers treated like morons. They're mandated to use a 'program' for reading, by using a manual, to teach kids to read. And the kids have a par by which they must test. They treat the kids like cattle. Then again, I'm in California. We're more concerened with operation more state prisons than any other state or country rather than give two shits about the educational system. Hooray for society.

On topic, its a very good idea IN THEORY. But people are too dumb to implement it.

It seems maybe the problem doesn't so much lie with the teachers, then perhaps government one-size-fits-all education system. But then again, I can only speak of the British system having no idea how the American system works. Though from what you said the two systems are quite similar. (Britain's program is called something like the "National Curriculum")

But I have to admit, I really liked the last line of your post.

 

[Riobux]

I'm going to say that usually it's very bad, but in rare cases it may help. While it may allow children to pursue expressive subjects like art and writing, it may lead them to have difficulties. They may end up hitting a wall in their subject of choice and be unable to seek professional advise of how to improve what they're doing. Even if they do well, they end up with a severe lack of qualifications which end up holding them back.

Another problem is the child may be unable to learn "untaught lessons" such as the requirement to do things by a certain date, to wear a uniform and how to treat certain members in society who have authority over you (e.g. police, government in general and your boss). It may also lead to more needless rebelling (e.g. rebelling against a dead-line you were meant to have the work in by).

I'd say it's something that has it's advantages and in some cases may help (e.g. someone with severe ADD or autism may not be able to function in an environment like a school), but in most it only holds the child back.

 

[hawkeye52]

As big of a fan of traditional education as I am, I must say that I don't see much terribly wrong with this. Frankly, all the so called "important stuff" the "life lessons"

you must be refering to personal social health education and yes they were shit and pointless and should be taken out of the curriculum along with general studies for 6th formers

 

[UbarElite]

Is it right? Well no, but at the same time every parent has a right to raise their kid the way they want to (for good or ill I suppose) so yes.

We don't make laws against bad parenting (well, we do against some forms of bad parenting), and if it (un-schooling) works, then why not let them? If it doesn't, either people will learn this and stop doing it, or they won't and all of us who participated in traditional schooling will be even better by comparison (at least as far as employment goes, just to give one example).

 

[TheSquirrelisKing]

As big of a fan of traditional education as I am, I must say that I don't see much terribly wrong with this. Frankly, all the so called "important stuff" the "life lessons"

you must be refering to personal social health education and yes they were shit and pointless and should be taken out of the curriculum along with general studies for 6th formers

No, not quite. I'm talking about things like common sense, how to do your taxes, financial responsibility (still trying to figure that one out...), how to get a job, things you need to live. Math was helpful, certainly, but history? Geography? Never used them after high school in any significant fashion, and I learned more on those subjects through self study then I ever did in school.
Frankly the way I look at it, Unschooling should be similar to home schooling, but self motivated. And it certainly wouldn't be the best idea for everyone.

 

[Korolev]

It will be a disaster for the children.

Knowledge is power. Knowledge is ability. Knowledge offers perspective.

We live in a democracy, at least most of us here on these forums do. We get to vote on certain issues. Nothing terrifies me more than an ignorant population voting on issues they don't understand.

If you don't give each and every citizen at least BASIC knowledge on science, maths and history, as well as critical thinking skills and social issues, you are raising an uninformed voter who will be easily swayed by bright shiny ads. You are doing society a disfavor and your child a disfavor. Knowledge never hurt anyone.

You could say that state-schooling is "brainwashing". I would content that raising your child in a sheltered home environment, while only exposing him/her to your own way of thinking is the exact definition of brainwashing.

If children are left to their own devices, how many of them are going to learn about the important stuff? How are you going to teach them how to interact with other children? School is as much an experience as a place for knowledge. A vital experience I would think.

Believe it or not, not every child is a perfect, innocent font of curiosity and pleasantness. Not every child is born good. In fact, I believe most children are born as vicious, unpleasant, demanding and lazy creatures, who NEED discipline. Look at our present society right now, where parents let their children run amok, let them hang out on the street and join gangs. Children need school - to teach them about the stuff they don't want to learn. Because it's often the stuff you don't want to learn that's the most important stuff of all.

We already have a problem in the world, what with the average voter's knowledge of science being on par with that of a potato. We have a problem with voters knowing nothing about what the economy is, or what GDP is, or how it's calculated. We already have a collection of people who are easily tricked into believing "We've always been at war with Eastasia". Knowledge is one of the safeguards against tyranny. An intelligent populace is always going to be harder to control than an ignorant, easily terrified mob.

If this goes ahead and the majority of children are "unschooled", expect the economy to fall apart, expect the already dismal level of mathematical competence to drop even further, and expect your average voter to be easily swayed by such eloquent arguments as "Booga-booga-booga Immigrants, booga-booga".

 

[Velocirapture07]

Sounds like new age "everyone is special!" bullshit to me. Go to school and make your kids suck it up like the rest of us.

 

[bluepilot]

Unschooling is what you do at college

When children are yound, their minds are soft and need to be filled with knowledge

Not to mention learning the discipline of sitting down and learning.

I have heard of the theory that sometimes school can stop kids learning because they come to hate the system, maybe sometimes taking a step back can help.

But I still think, that even if we allow children to learn in a more passive manner, than they have to be bonbarded with various input.

 

[Brandon237]

What?! This is bad, I new we should have shot the hippies better enforced formal schooling while we had the chance! This is atrocious. Imagine what it does to the child's social life. Vincent van Gogh anyone? The dude was tormented and there's a reason...

Seriously, why? you need at least primary schooling to enter even the most oddly specific and non-mathematical careers!

 

[inglioti]

EDIT

thought the post at the top of page 2 was the opening post, forgive me. i don't have much to say anymore, ha.

 

[Valksy]

Wow, that unschooling garbage has to be one of the most moronic things I have read this week. To my mind education is the best free gift you are given as a kid and the smart parent encourages you to take it and run with it and make the very best of it that you can as it will serve you for the rest of your life. That is even if you dismiss much of the education system as just a sorting process for people.

In the UK you are sorted by how many GCSEs who have, then how many AS levels, then how many A levels and then what kind of degree you have (there are probably more, but I am too bloody old to know these days) and as you take each step through education you let go of the one before - I have a decent degree and don't list my GCSEs on my CV for example. Whether people like it or not one of the first methods of sorting job applications is to take an over view of educational placement - if you have one job and 100 applications you have to start somewhere (those written in crayon, those badly presented, those who have educational requirement). To not even understand that is very naive. If I was faced with a CV where the person had NO obvious educational credentials then it would be binned. Sorry, but no one is a special snowflake who deserves a chance to come to my interview and talk about their parent's bullshit philosophy.

I consider it a lesson worth learning in a hurry that sometimes you have to play the game society has constructed if you want to get on with life.

 

[UberNoodle]

If people are resorting to this 'unschooling' thing (what a hideous word, by the way) it is because, perhaps some aspect of the SYSTEM has failed them, but NOT because formal education has failed them. I am a teacher myself and I do my best to customise my methods for each class as a whole and each student within it. I don't get paid enough, but I took the job so I can't complain. In the end my students are happier and learn more efficiently.

And school teaches more than the teachers instruct. School teaches kids valuable life lessons such as, sometimes (often?) one needs to do things that 'suck' because that's what life is. And they learn how to cope with these things and balance their responses to them. They learn how to deal with others and resolve conflict. They learn how to be part of a community.

Now a cynical person could say how 'wishy washy ideal' all that is, but of course not all lessons are pleasant, and I know personally what a hellish school life is like. However, on the other hand, to teach kids that life is all roses because 'everyone is special' and that the whole world should have cater for them, is harmful. When they enter the real world, they might end up throwing themselves in front of a train, perhaps after killing everybody in their office.

The most important lessons I learnt in my childhood was to bite the bullet. Go elbow deep in the sh!t because you can scrub your hands later. Nowadays, I see so many parents mollycoddling their kids and I think that some of those kids are 'ruined'. The parents have already broken them, unless some other force rectifies the damage.