Poll: were the nukes dropped on japan in WW2 really needed to win?

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dystopiaINC

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could you imagine the cold war if japan WAS DIVIDED LIKE VIETNAM and KOREA? it would have been a nightmare and thats not even going into the loss of life to end WW2. if we let Russia get involved they would have demand half of japan, and then tried expanding communism. not to mention it would suck to fight the whole war almost to the end and have Russia swoop in at the end and get half the credit.

nope. nuke japan, save lives. prevent WW3
 

puffy786

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I think that blowing up cities with the bomb was unnecessary. They could have demonstrated the power by bombing a single small military base just to demonstrate the power to get the Japanese surrender.
 

Torrasque

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There is a place that celebrates it?
What the fuck...
There was a post that answered this question last week, where is it... ah, <url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.305034-Bombing-Japan-Saved-More-People-Than-It-Killed?page=1>here it is.
First post answers your question, the rest are just for the sake of discussion.

OP: No, they were not needed to win.
 

mrdude2010

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it wasn't needed but it probably saved millions of lives and a lengthy invasion


still unpleasant that those civillians had to die

what people seem to forget is that more people were killed in the tokyo fire bombings than in hiroshima and nagasaki combined
 

orangeban

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Well, Japan had no ships or oil. Really we could of just let them rot on their island till they gave in. And peace talks were being considered
 

Cain_Zeros

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MysticToast said:
The Japanese were prepared to fight down to their last soldier. And then some. It was/is part of their culture.

Sure the nukes were harsh and bloody, but they may have avoided a much larger bloodshed.
I've actually gotten mixed messages about that. I've heard they were prepared to fight to the last man, but I've also heard they were on the verge of surrender. Obviously it can't be both, and either way I don't think it justifies millions of civilian casualties.
 

orangeban

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dystopiaINC said:
could you imagine the cold war if japan WAS DIVIDED LIKE VIETNAM and KOREA? it would have been a nightmare and thats not even going into the loss of life to end WW2. if we let Russia get involved they would have demand half of japan, and then tried expanding communism. not to mention it would suck to fight the whole war almost to the end and have Russia swoop in at the end and get half the credit.

nope. nuke japan, save lives. prevent WW3
Why would WW3 break out? What makes Japan so important that it means the two superpowers would finally declare war?

Also, DRAMATIC CAPATILISATION and dramatic phrases like EXPANDING COMMUNISM are excellent ways to appear sensationalist.
 

orangeban

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harmonic said:
orangeban said:
Why would WW3 break out? What makes Japan so important that it means the two superpowers would finally declare war?

Also, DRAMATIC CAPATILISATION and dramatic phrases like EXPANDING COMMUNISM are excellent ways to appear sensationalist.
It's not Japan itself that's important, it's two enchroaching superpowers, the US and the USSR, with opposed ideologies. It happened in Europe, and it was going to happen in Korea. It didn't happen in Japan because of the bombs.

No, it's not "sensationalist." It's just factual history.
Huh? World War 3 didn't happen in Europe. This guy specifcally said that world war 3 was stopped by dropping the bombs.
 

PureIrony

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Aug 12, 2010
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Probably not. The idea wasn't to guarantee victory; it was to ensure that no more American lives would be lost.
 

orangeban

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harmonic said:
orangeban said:
Huh? World War 3 didn't happen in Europe. This guy specifcally said that world war 3 was stopped by dropping the bombs.
No one said World War 3 happened in Europe. Duh.

Soviet domination happened in eastern europe. Communism versus Democracy happened in Korea as well. It didn't happen in Japan, who, rather than being sucked into the proletariat abyss, became the 2nd richest country on Earth.
I understand Cold War history. What I'm saying is, the original poster said that the bombs stopped World War 3 by not letting the Soviets into Japan. I want to know why.

I'm just looking for an answer to that question.

Also, it was totally capitalism (as opposed to democracy) vs communism. The Americans were only upset about communism because communists don't trade.
 

AllenSchezar

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One thing we discovered after the war was that the Japanese were surprisingly close to developing there own bomb. They were actually much closer then the Germans who were going down a dead end. It's possible that the Japanese might have been able to make one in a matter of months. Most people don't know this because it was deliberately concealed by the US military after the war in an effort to keep the Russians in the dark. Of course there is still the problem of delivery but they still had a few submarines and kamikaze attacks were common. If it hadn't been Hiroshima and Nagasaki it might have been San Fransisco and LA.
 

MaxwellEdison

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I would have tried blowing up a near by island first, just to let them know we meant business.

Because of a whole cluster fuck of aspects involved, though, I think debating it is pointless. Generally, we should learn of the horrors involved when nations are allowed to escalate petty conflict to that point, and resolve to never take the steps we took that day again. That's the best we can do, I think.
 

ZiggyE

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No. NO NO NO. The bombs were not necessary. No matter what anyone tells you, they weren't. The bombs weren't even dropped on Japan to end the war. They were dropped on Japan to threaten the Soviets.

Japan was on it's final legs. USA had already invaded and was in control of some Japanese territory. The only reason they didn't surrender when Germany did was out of vain pride. They didn't want to lose face. But they were close to surrendering.

At the time Japan was suffering from poverty. They were almost entirely reliant on food being imported from their China colonies. A naval blockade between Japan and mainland Asia would have stopped food going in and Japan would have been forced to surrender with relatively little bloodshed.

Nothing justifies the use of the atomic bombs on Japan, except perhaps the fact it prevented the Cold War from escalating into a full blown conflict. It was done to intimidate any future enemies America might have had. This is proven by the dropping of the second bomb three days after the first one. How can this act be justified? The first bomb, maybe, if we ignore what I've already said, but the second one? Not at all. Three days is not long enough of a time to expect a country to surrender in any war, ever, after an individual attack. Dropping the second bomb was simply an action to tell other countries, "Yes, that massive damage we did on Japan. We can do that again, we have more than one bomb." Or why didn't they drop the bomb into the ocean? To show Japan they meant business? Nothing justifies America's actions.

EDIT: I personally believe Japan's surrender (conditional, of course) was only months away. Japan knew they couldn't win. They had known for about a year they couldn't win. The only reason they hadn't surrendered, was out of pride.
 

JWAN

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Well we could have:
1. cut them off from the world and starved them off insuring that the government would take all of the food from the civilians and they would starve a slow painful death over a period of years.

2. Invaded Japan causing the deaths of tens of thousands of allied soldiers and dragged the war out for years. Not to mention thousands of more bombing runs and shelling every standing structure within 25km of the beaches. If we learned anything from the final months of Nazi Germany its that the crazy government will give everyone they can guns to run out and meet the incoming army.

The bombs were the fastest way to end the war.

Remember, the longer a war drags out the more casualties will occur from bullshit accidents, essentially completely meaningless deaths.

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of course we will never really know because we cannot go back and test the other scenarios so I'm going to have to say I do support the theory that the atomic bombs ended the war faster.That pride they had made them believe their emporer was a god and we needed to let them know (just like the Germans) that he was in fact NOT a god he was some assclown in a castle.
 

orangeban

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harmonic said:
orangeban said:
Also, it was totally capitalism (as opposed to democracy) vs communism. The Americans were only upset about communism because communists don't trade.
Right, a Brit (or whatever you are) who hates capitalism. Nothing new or unique or special.

Anyway, so North Korea is democratic? Interesting.
What? When did I say that? I do not recall saying that at anypoint. I said the Americans fought for capitalism, which they did. Stop putting stupid words in my mouth.

Oh, and an American (I assume) who hates communism. Nothing new or unique or special.