Poll: What are you really buying? An attempt to spark discussion about the games you buy and DRM

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Topic partly sparked by the Facebook comments section of the latest (Diablo 3) episode of Jimquisition.

So, when it comes to games (this could apply to any SOFTWARE, but for the purpose of this discussion, let's stick to GAMES), what are you REALLY buying? This is key to the issue, because your rights as a consumer and the appropriate analogies that can be drawn will depend on what it is you actually bought.

The issue at hand is one of OWNERSHIP. That's the root of the "Entitlement Problem". If you buy spend your cash on a product that will be with you for an indefinite time until you give it away or resell it, I would sure as heck like it to slap a label on that thing that says "Property of Syntax Error".

I also hope this topic will bring out good arguments from both sides.

 

[Vegosiux]

Well simply put...games are a product when that's convenient for the publishers, and games are a service when that's convenient for the publishers.

Basically, the moves some people on the publishing side have been pulling suggest that they want to reap the benefits of both and take the responsibility of none.

For example, if I am buying a license, the license agreement needs to be agreed to by both parties the moment the license is purchased, not later upon installation.

 

[Syntax Error]

Well simply put...games are a product when that's convenient for the publishers, and games are a service when that's convenient for the publishers.

Basically, the moves some people on the publishing side have been pulling suggest that they want to reap the benefits of both and take the responsibility of none.

For example, if I am buying a license, the license agreement needs to be agreed to by both parties the moment the license is purchased, not later upon installation.

But when it comes to games, you only get to that point AFTER you purchase your game (be it through digital download or through physical media.)

 

[Vegosiux]

Well simply put...games are a product when that's convenient for the publishers, and games are a service when that's convenient for the publishers.

Basically, the moves some people on the publishing side have been pulling suggest that they want to reap the benefits of both and take the responsibility of none.

For example, if I am buying a license, the license agreement needs to be agreed to by both parties the moment the license is purchased, not later upon installation.

But when it comes to games, you only get to that point AFTER you purchase your game (be it through digital download or through physical media.)

Ambiguous wording on my part. I meant "should be agreed to by both parties" as in, that's how it's supposed to work. If they're selling me a license, I want to see it before I buy it. Apologies for the confusion.

 

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Point Taken. But now I ask you, from your own point of view, WHAT are you buying?

 

[Vegosiux]

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Point Taken. But now I ask you, from your own point of view, WHAT are you buying?

I like to think that I'm buying a product. That's why I oppose intrusive DRM as well, because after I buy it, it's mine. Whoever sold it to me has no business telling me what to do with it. Seriously "ba-haack in my da-haays", we had the "feelies"[footnote]http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Feelies[/footnote]. Best kind of DRM ever.

But, if I pull a TV analogy, I suppose I'd say that a TV channel is a service, but the shows on it are a product; akin to how Steam or Origin are a service, and the games products.

 

[Epona]

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Point Taken. But now I ask you, from your own point of view, WHAT are you buying?

I like to think that I'm buying a product. That's why I oppose intrusive DRM as well, because after I buy it, it's mine. Whoever sold it to me has no business telling me what to do with it. Seriously "ba-haack in my da-haays", we had the "feelies"[footnote]http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Feelies[/footnote]. Best kind of DRM ever.

But, if I pull a TV analogy, I suppose I'd say that a TV channel is a service, but the shows on it are a product; akin to how Steam or Origin are a service, and the games products.

You don't buy TV shows on cable. Those aren't a product unless you buy the DVD's or even the digital download of those shows. Cable TV is a delivery service just as Steam is but with Steam, you are buying the product that it delivers.

 

[TehCookie]

Games come in all sorts of flavors, some are services, some are products and others are a mixture. Any game that requires a company to provide something for you (like servers or a client needed to run it) to be able to use it is a service. A game that you buy once receive your copy that you can do anything with is a product, and if you break it it's your problem since they company has nothing more to do with it. Games where a connection isn't required, just recommended are mixed (aka any game that needs updates).

 

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Edited OP to better reflect what I want to see discussed

 

[incal11]

(first one to vote for the third option here)

Hm, you only buy a physical product if you buy a box, but even that comes with a license...
Books and movies don't come with a license that lets you read and watch them only x number of times before you have to pay again. Sure copying them is usually frowned upon, but if it's to preserve them or access them again when you paid before already... this at least used to be a fair use right.

There is a confusion here because the law and private interests are clashing with basic liberties and common sense. This already happened long ago with the coming of the printing press, every time a new technology allows culture to spread more easily in fact.

When what you're looking at is not completely dependent of it's support to exist you actually cannot really "own" it. No one can, even the ones "selling" it. What you can do here however is: reward a good performance.

I know this raises a number of moral issues with many, but I just find it sad to lower culture to the level of mere groceries, even if it's not culture you would necessarily respect. I see the media industry as a whole booming despite the supposed utter evil of piracy as good support of my position, but I'm prepared to argue of this in depth.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

I am buying the physical product and the data contained there-in. This should only be reinforced with digital distribution.

I am putting the files on my hard-drive, I would not pay money to have the "right" to have the files on my hard-drive and use them. When I pay for a game, I am paying to use all the content contained there-in.

Do I have the right to copy them for friends? That's another argument that I don't know how to approach right now.

 

[Gigano]

You buy a copy of the game, and own that one copy.

It's no different from buying a designer chair. You own the copy, and can use and resell it however you wish, but you obviously don't own the design. And hence can't start making more chairs to sell or give away.

Two exceptions though: Digital distribution, which generally isn't (yet) considered a sale of goods or give you any right to resell your digital copy, and MMO's where you might own the install DVD, but it is basically worthless since all the actual value lies in the service of being able to log in online.

 

[Yopaz]

Well, I'm not usually buying a physical product. I usually buy games through Steam so I guess I buy a license to download it through some specific servers. Those times I buy a console game without the need to write a serial code in order to install I buy a physical product.

You buy a copy of the game, and own that one copy.

It's no different from buying a designer chair. You own the copy, and can use and resell it however you wish, but you obviously don't own the design. And hence can't start making more chairs to sell or give away.

Two exceptions though: Digital distribution, which generally isn't (yet) considered a sale of goods or give you any right to resell your digital copy, and MMO's where you might own the install DVD, but it is basically worthless since all the actual value lies in the service of being able to log in online.

Yeah, this basically what I was trying to say.

 

[Epona]

You buy a copy of the game, and own that one copy.

It's no different from buying a designer chair. You own the copy, and can use and resell it however you wish, but you obviously don't own the design. And hence can't start making more chairs to sell or give away.

Two exceptions though: Digital distribution, which generally isn't (yet) considered a sale of goods or give you any right to resell your digital copy, and MMO's where you might own the install DVD, but it is basically worthless since all the actual value lies in the service of being able to log in online.

With digital distribution you don't lose the right to resell, you simply lose the ability because technology was used to place restrictions on the product you bought.

 

[Esotera]

It's not an opinion thing, you are always buying a license to use a copy of a computer program, and digital files associated with it. If you're buying a box, then the cdrom & packaging is the only thing you really own.

This sort of sucks, because you don't have any guarantee to a permanent copy of the program, and are often discouraged, as it's illegal in many countries to break disc encryption, even though it's considered fair use to make a backup copy of your program.

Free software licenses like the GPL are the only thing that really guarantees you will always have a copy of your program, providing it's in existence. Game developers seem to be massively behind the curve on this compared to other parts of industry, like web servers, which sucks.

 

[Vuliev]

If it has a single-player mode or a significant single-player aspect, then I'm buying a product. If it also has a multiplayer component, then that's a separate service that should have no impact on my enjoyment or use of the single-player mode.

If it is purely multiplayer (really only the case with MMOs and MOBAs), then it's a license/service.


Obviously, that's not how it actually works at the moment, but that's how it should fucking work.


EDIT: Now that I think about it a bit more, the concept of a "license" wouldn't be too far removed from the concept of a product if and only if it was as difficult to rescind a license as it is to have your furniture/TV/appliances/etc. forcibly repossessed. Unfortunately, the whole digital distribution thing makes that rather difficult.

 

[veloper]

I'm only supporting the developers, very indirectly.

The copy itself is pretty worthless and it will soon sell for 50% less and then for a 75% discount and then another price cut and then another, etc.

 

[Guffe]

For me. I buy the physical disc that when I insert in either PC or Wii activates the content and then I can play.
I have downloaded Free to Play games like Lotro and LoL and those have worked well so I could think about purchasing product like that and start dissmissing the physical stuff but I still like owning the copy of something I bought.