Poll: What do you think of the Pope?

[Inverse Skies]

The old AIDS comment was a silly one born from the Catholic idea against contraception... but apart from that slip of judgement I have nothing against him personally. He's a symbol of hope to millions so... what else can you say?

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

head of the Catholic church= douche bag

 

[bowserboy26578]

Ug. I voted neigh, and that's mostly because as a Catholic even I dislike the current pope. He's definitely not my favorite guy.

I'm surprised this post hasn't been more highly moderated though. Largely, there's a lot of Christianity baiting going on here, but even among the Christians posting there is still Catholic baiting.

I'm just saying, I'm seeing plenty of anti-Catholic and anti-Religion comments, as much as I am seeing anti-Benedict comments. Technically, the former are off topic.

Lets get into the nitty-gritty, shall we?

Oh, and the whole thing where he tried to pretend the last pope had agreed with evolution...

http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02tc.htm
http://www.cuttingedge.org/n1034.html
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/vaticanview.html

From the lips of the man himself:
"Today, almost half a century after publication of the encyclical, new knowledge has led to the recognition of the theory of evolution as more than a hypothesis. It is indeed remarkable that this theory has been progressively accepted by researchers, following a series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge. The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory."

So, to you sir, I say fail.
Double plus fail, indeed.

Ok, that, your point, and the fact that in his previous big speech, rather than call for the world to combat aids, povetry[sic], disease, etc, he called on the world to fight 'gayness' (homosexually).

A lot of people would agree with you that the current pope doesn't exactly have his ducks in order. I think I'll also agree with you here. This is a good example of a criticism specifically of Pope Benedict, and not a criticism of the papacy or the Catholic church in general (the latter being Catholic Baiting, and off topic).

Chief agmonst my dislikes of the pope are (see what I did there?):
* The hypocricy of being quite rich whilst decrying materialism.

Get back to your Pope-Jet 3.000 and go back to your own country in your marble palace and sit on your golden throne with thousands of people worshiping you.

Oh yeah uhm, do you guys know that there's a passage in the bible saying that in order to follow Jesus you must SELL ALL YOUR BELONGINGS and GIVE TO THE POOR, then and only THEN can you follow Jesus.

1). This is not a criticism specifically of Pope Benedict, so it's (a) off topic and (b) Catholic baiting.
2). Nearly no one who calls themselves a christian rejects materialism. I feel like you would be hard pressed to find people who literally followed Jesus word for word and sold all of their possessions to minister to the poor. But I can think of a few examples:
-Monks (Catholic)
-Nuns (Catholic)
-Priests (Catholic)
So the underlying contention in many people's posts (though perhaps not yours, Doug) that the Catholic church is some vessel of materialism and hypocrisy I find woefully ignorant.

Furthermore, I would argue that the "luxury" of the papacy is defensible. The pope needs to fly on a "Pope-Jet 3000" since he's obligated to travel all over the globe, and given that people are frequently trying to assassinate him, flying coach my not be the best idea. Second, the Vatican is practically a political entity that receives world leaders, attracts tourists, and serves as a command center for a gigantic, world wide humanitarian effort.

Could you liquidate the vatican and donate the proceeds to the poor? Sure.
Would you be better served maintaining the Vatican to coordinate a gigantic, world wide Church? Yes.

Finally, the richness of the papacy is not akin to the richness of, say, Donald Trump. The pope does not own investment properties in Miami, nor does he frequently build golf courses or vacation leisurely on a private island. The Pope's "wealth" is really the Church's wealth, in so far that if the Pope privately spend the Church's money on some personal luxury item, than shit would hit the fan. Again, I find the contention that the Pope is the theologian equivalent to Bill Gates ignorant and hateful.

* His 'holyness's' 'condoms won't help the Africans' bullshit.

This comment will be slightly tangential, but it is a reply to the use of bullshit to describe a plan of behavioral modification as a way of preventing AIDs.

Do the Africans need condoms?
Or do they need to change disease spreading behaviors, like having sex with virgins to try and cure sexually transmitted diseases?

Aids is not actually that virulent. You have between a 10-20% chance of transmission, given a single instance of intimate contact with someone who has AIDs. The flu and chicken pox are more contagious. The reason why it's an epidemic is because of behavior. AIDs spreads specifically because of non-monogamous sex. Demographics who have more sexual partners per year have higher instances of AIDs.

Abstinence would CURE aids. It wouldn't do much to help the people who have the disease now, of course. But if everyone on the planet were having monogamous sex, then AIDs virus would not be able to spread and it would go the way of the dinosaur.

Is that realistic? Perhaps not.

But take a second to think that implementing widespread condom use in Africa will also take an enormous culture wide behavior shift, and you're talking about two solutions that work through the same approach.

Are his comments bullshit because condom use would help the situation? This is more likely. Since it seems every study done on the matter says that if you're having non-monogamous sex, you're much better off shrink-wrapping it, his comment seems quite backward. Here, I would have to agree with popular opinion. An examination of Catholic theology and contraceptive use would probably give more insight into the position the Pope is in condoning condom use in Africa, but if he isn't going to support it, he's much better off not going on the record with something as boisterous as "Condom use will spread AIDs."


All I'm saying is, the abstinence approach is not bullshit by it's own virtue.

* The attempts to retreat from the theory of evolution (not the hypothesis of evolution, which would be deniable)

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22136550-5002700,00.html
http://thoughtsongod.wordpress.com/2007/07/27/pope-benedict-on-evolution/
http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/003919.html

I wonder if there is such a thing as Double double plus fail?

* The popes preference towards bashing 'gays' over helping people.
* Everything else!

You've actually just said three things.

ITS A TRAP!

This is the truest criticism of the pope in this entire thread.
Hopefully, his battle station is not fully operational.

So God is a stupid egomaniac?

Not many people would believe him stupid.
A lot of people seem to think he's an egomaniac. Just by the way they go about talking/worshiping him.

Silly hat wearing, proselytising, disease spreader.

If the discussion were about what you thought of some illegal immigrant who came across the Rio Grande, and you had said:

Silly bean eating, cheap working, border jumpers.

You would have been put on probation.
Just saying!

Yeah right, maybe if they repent their devilish ways and become good child making catholics.
Isn't Poland the country with all those priests that say they can "cure" you of homosexuality anyway?

Look, I've gotten the same speech the dude you're debating with has gotten:
Homosexual disposition is fine, homosexual sex is a sin. It's a sin in the same vein as contraception is a sin.

For me? As a Catholic, I've always treated what comes out of the Vatican as a professional theological opinion. The pope says, after much deliberation, we believe that X is the best path to follow to live a good life, in keeping with what God wants for us.

I've disagreed with it. I've always thought you could be more or less Catholic. There are Catholics who go to mass twice a year. There are Catholics like me, who go more frequently, but have disagreements. There are Catholics like my girlfriend, who goes to mass every weekend, who was an altar server for years, and who taught CCD, and who still uses the pill. And there are super Catholics like the cardinals and the Pope who are... well, super Catholics--they obviously fully believe what they preach.

The theology of sex that the Catholic Church espouses is an interesting one; I find it beautiful, personally. But not to the extent that I would give up contraception, masturbation, oral sex, etc to live that philosophy. And no to the extent that I expect homosexuals to give up homosexual sex.

Whats wrong with the Pope? I mean im Protestant so I dont see the Pope as having religious authority over me but I still respect him as the leader of the Catholic Church. Yeah I know the last Pope is on his way to sainthood and thats a hard act to follow but the current Pope isnt bad.

But in my opinion (as a non Catholic) although I didn't agree with John-Paul II I thought he was a great role-model for young Catholics. He was a guy who really fought for what he believed in and truly acted as an envoy.

New Pope on the other hand is a douche and is about the opposite of John Paul in my big-book-o-opinons (and it is quite large.)

Although I don't think he is a Nazi.

Holy shit. Thank you for your balanced and respectful opinions. I'm going to petition to put you both on the way to saint hood, given your lack of sarcasm and virulence.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Finally, please pardon me if I said anything incendiary towards any other group: I am merely reacting defensively to what has been a nearly one sided discussion.

Holy wall of replies Batman!

 

[Eskay]

Silly hat wearing, proselytising, disease spreader.

If the discussion were about what you thought of some illegal immigrant who came across the Rio Grande, and you had said:

Silly bean eating, cheap working, border jumpers.

You would have been put on probation.
Just saying!

Your comparison of comments is entirely unfair. You've insinuated I've used a racial slur in my post with your "bean eating" comparison. Please point out where this happened or have the decency to retarct the statement.

I called him silly hat wearing because I think his hat looks silly. Its hardly mod worthy.
I called him proselytising because his is, ITS HIS JOB! Whether you find this distasteful as I do or otherwise its a matter of fact.
I called him disease spreading because of his stance on condom use.

Now please explain how the hell you got to your interpretation of what I said.

 

[gustcq]

Im a roman-catholic but idk i don't have a good vibe about this pope. He seems evil, unlike the last pope that was all humble. Im not sure but i think he used to be on the nazi regimen b4 becoming religious.

 

[Skeleon]

Recently, he went to Africa, and told the people that if you wear a condom you have a bigger chance of catching and STD.

Yup, a man who actively helps spread AIDS and other deadly diseases through-out Africa deserves nothing but contempt.

 

[traceur_]

because of that africa thing and his hatred of homosexuals, I hate him. I hope he dies a death mentioned in the following list:

chokes on a dildo.

is hit by a rocket propelled dildo (RPD).

mauled by hyenas.

trips and smacks his head on that fucking throne.

marble palace collapses on him, trapping him in rubble for several days while he is slowly crushed.

chokes on condoms.

and many more that I can't think of right now.

 

[Aries_Split]

As a former catholic, I hold nothing but respect for the Pope and the Catholic Church, in my opinion, John Paul II was a truly great man, and his death was a great saddening.

However, I am of the stance that it is not the Pope, that makes the man, it is the man, that makes the Pope.

You can put that silly hat on the most evil person in the world and he will still be the most evil person on the world.

 

[SecretTacoNinja]

He's a damn moron... I don't get why millions of people look up to him...

I take offence to your "It's a me-a the Pope-a" line.
The guy is GERMAN not Italain.

ITS A TRAP!

It's uncanny! It really is!

 

[Trilby]

No, Homophobia is the right word, and no they're not tolerant, you can only go to church without publicly announcing you are gay otherwise you get excomunicated.

Not sure where you get your dogma. The official Catholic line is that homosexuals are to be pitied, not censored. However, having teh buttsecks is frowned upon, because it is seen as an abuse of the gift that is human sexuality. You can be a Catholic and be gay, provided you don't fornicate (and gay sex is considered fornication by the church because marriage is defined as between a man and a woman). And any sin can be forgiven, if you are sincere.

The pope is infallible according to Catholic traditions. Hence it really doesn't matter how anachronistic, homophobic, or hypocritical he is.

He still deserves to be removed from office for saying I will burn in hell and God hates me for something I cannot control.

Wrong, and wrong again. The Pope is only considered infallible when speaking Ex Cathedra, and such a state is usually reserved for very specific singular changes to official dogma.

Second point: Catholic teaching is that hell exists, but it is unknown whether anyone is in it. The Pope has never, to my knowledge, stated that certain people are in it (if anyone knows differently, please reply). He says that homosexual sex is a sin, but that's nothing new (see further up). Committing a sin does not confine you to hell for eternity, no matter what idiots may have told you that.


I don't particularly like the Pope, but it pisses me off to see people attack from positions of ignorance.

 

[krishaw]

Anyone who looks like dark sidius/ evil incarnate, let's a priest in who says the holocaust was a lie, was in the Hitler youth and says curing cancer (Gene manipulation) is a deadly sin and your one way ticket to Hell, does not deserve the amazing hat and home the pope gets. Also, he said being rich is a deadly sin. Catholocism is one of the richest religions in the world and you lead it, wanker! I know he can't see me (or can he?) but I am pointing a middle finger in the direction of the vatican and I hope my fingernails reflect sunlight into his vampire face and turn him to a pile of ashes. I still respect the religion but you can't create sins you nutjob.

Also on a side note, hi. I'm new to the forum.

 

[Eskay]

Not sure where you get your dogma. The official Catholic line is that homosexuals are to be pitied, not censored. However, having teh buttsexs is frowned upon, because it is seen as an abuse of the gift that is the orgasm. You can be a Catholic and be gay, provided you don't fornicate (and gay sex is considered fornication by the church because marriage is defined as between a man and a woman).

Essentially its okay to be gay, just don't be gay about it.

 

[Christemo]

i think the pope is 1 of the greatest douchebags of mankind EVAR. he says "stop using condoms, it gives you Aids, because he obviously want overpopulation and STDs worldwide. when or if the world floods because of global warming, hes probably gonna build a noahs ark II and tell the world "you have sinned, therefore god will BLAH BLAH BLAH."

to make a long story short, i would gladly see benedict thrown into a black hole along with all his christian fanatic buddies. and the Jehovas witnesses.

 

[Uszi]

Your comparison of comments is entirely unfair. You've insinuated I've used a racial slur in my post with your "bean eating" comparison. Please point out where this happened or have the decency to retarct[sic] the statement.

I called him silly hat wearing because I think his hat looks silly. Its hardly mod worthy.
I called him proselytising[sic] because his is, ITS HIS JOB! Whether you find this distasteful as I do or otherwise its a matter of fact.
I called him disease spreading because of his stance on condom use.

Now please explain how the hell you got to your interpretation of what I said.

-Maybe you called them bean eating because they seem to like beans a whole lot?
-Maybe you called them cheap working because they typically work for less than legal citizens?
-Maybe you called them border jumping because we were talking about someone who came here illegally?

Just because you have some explanation, doesn't mean you have a good one.
It also means that I can still take offense to people opining just to Catholic Bait and not contribute to the discussion. Just as you might argue it's your opinion that the Pope's hat is silly, it's my opinion that your opinion is offensive.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

Ug. I voted neigh, and that's mostly because as a Catholic even I dislike the current pope. He's definitely not my favorite guy.

I'm surprised this post hasn't been more highly moderated though. Largely, there's a lot of Christianity baiting going on here, but even among the Christians posting there is still Catholic baiting.

I'm just saying, I'm seeing plenty of anti-Catholic and anti-Religion comments, as much as I am seeing anti-Benedict comments. Technically, the former are off topic.

Lets get into the nitty-gritty, shall we?

Oh, and the whole thing where he tried to pretend the last pope had agreed with evolution...

http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_jp02tc.htm
http://www.cuttingedge.org/n1034.html
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/vaticanview.html

From the lips of the man himself:
"Today, almost half a century after publication of the encyclical, new knowledge has led to the recognition of the theory of evolution as more than a hypothesis. It is indeed remarkable that this theory has been progressively accepted by researchers, following a series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge. The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory."

So, to you sir, I say fail.
Double plus fail, indeed.

Ok, that, your point, and the fact that in his previous big speech, rather than call for the world to combat aids, povetry[sic], disease, etc, he called on the world to fight 'gayness' (homosexually).

A lot of people would agree with you that the current pope doesn't exactly have his ducks in order. I think I'll also agree with you here. This is a good example of a criticism specifically of Pope Benedict, and not a criticism of the papacy or the Catholic church in general (the latter being Catholic Baiting, and off topic).

Chief agmonst my dislikes of the pope are (see what I did there?):
* The hypocricy of being quite rich whilst decrying materialism.

Get back to your Pope-Jet 3.000 and go back to your own country in your marble palace and sit on your golden throne with thousands of people worshiping you.

Oh yeah uhm, do you guys know that there's a passage in the bible saying that in order to follow Jesus you must SELL ALL YOUR BELONGINGS and GIVE TO THE POOR, then and only THEN can you follow Jesus.

1). This is not a criticism specifically of Pope Benedict, so it's (a) off topic and (b) Catholic baiting.
2). Nearly no one who calls themselves a christian rejects materialism. I feel like you would be hard pressed to find people who literally followed Jesus word for word and sold all of their possessions to minister to the poor. But I can think of a few examples:
-Monks (Catholic)
-Nuns (Catholic)
-Priests (Catholic)
So the underlying contention in many people's posts (though perhaps not yours, Doug) that the Catholic church is some vessel of materialism and hypocrisy I find woefully ignorant.

Furthermore, I would argue that the "luxury" of the papacy is defensible. The pope needs to fly on a "Pope-Jet 3000" since he's obligated to travel all over the globe, and given that people are frequently trying to assassinate him, flying coach my not be the best idea. Second, the Vatican is practically a political entity that receives world leaders, attracts tourists, and serves as a command center for a gigantic, world wide humanitarian effort.

Could you liquidate the vatican and donate the proceeds to the poor? Sure.
Would you be better served maintaining the Vatican to coordinate a gigantic, world wide Church? Yes.

Finally, the richness of the papacy is not akin to the richness of, say, Donald Trump. The pope does not own investment properties in Miami, nor does he frequently build golf courses or vacation leisurely on a private island. The Pope's "wealth" is really the Church's wealth, in so far that if the Pope privately spend the Church's money on some personal luxury item, than shit would hit the fan. Again, I find the contention that the Pope is the theologian equivalent to Bill Gates ignorant and hateful.

* His 'holyness's' 'condoms won't help the Africans' bullshit.

This comment will be slightly tangential, but it is a reply to the use of bullshit to describe a plan of behavioral modification as a way of preventing AIDs.

Do the Africans need condoms?
Or do they need to change disease spreading behaviors, like having sex with virgins to try and cure sexually transmitted diseases?

Aids is not actually that virulent. You have between a 10-20% chance of transmission, given a single instance of intimate contact with someone who has AIDs. The flu and chicken pox are more contagious. The reason why it's an epidemic is because of behavior. AIDs spreads specifically because of non-monogamous sex. Demographics who have more sexual partners per year have higher instances of AIDs.

Abstinence would CURE aids. It wouldn't do much to help the people who have the disease now, of course. But if everyone on the planet were having monogamous sex, then AIDs virus would not be able to spread and it would go the way of the dinosaur.

Is that realistic? Perhaps not.

But take a second to think that implementing widespread condom use in Africa will also take an enormous culture wide behavior shift, and you're talking about two solutions that work through the same approach.

Are his comments bullshit because condom use would help the situation? This is more likely. Since it seems every study done on the matter says that if you're having non-monogamous sex, you're much better off shrink-wrapping it, his comment seems quite backward. Here, I would have to agree with popular opinion. An examination of Catholic theology and contraceptive use would probably give more insight into the position the Pope is in condoning condom use in Africa, but if he isn't going to support it, he's much better off not going on the record with something as boisterous as "Condom use will spread AIDs."


All I'm saying is, the abstinence approach is not bullshit by it's own virtue.

* The attempts to retreat from the theory of evolution (not the hypothesis of evolution, which would be deniable)

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22136550-5002700,00.html
http://thoughtsongod.wordpress.com/2007/07/27/pope-benedict-on-evolution/
http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/003919.html

I wonder if there is such a thing as Double double plus fail?

* The popes preference towards bashing 'gays' over helping people.
* Everything else!

You've actually just said three things.

ITS A TRAP!

This is the truest criticism of the pope in this entire thread.
Hopefully, his battle station is not fully operational.

So God is a stupid egomaniac?

Not many people would believe him stupid.
A lot of people seem to think he's an egomaniac. Just by the way they go about talking/worshiping him.

Silly hat wearing, proselytising, disease spreader.

If the discussion were about what you thought of some illegal immigrant who came across the Rio Grande, and you had said:

Silly bean eating, cheap working, border jumpers.

You would have been put on probation.
Just saying!

Yeah right, maybe if they repent their devilish ways and become good child making catholics.
Isn't Poland the country with all those priests that say they can "cure" you of homosexuality anyway?

Look, I've gotten the same speech the dude you're debating with has gotten:
Homosexual disposition is fine, homosexual sex is a sin. It's a sin in the same vein as contraception is a sin.

For me? As a Catholic, I've always treated what comes out of the Vatican as a professional theological opinion. The pope says, after much deliberation, we believe that X is the best path to follow to live a good life, in keeping with what God wants for us.

I've disagreed with it. I've always thought you could be more or less Catholic. There are Catholics who go to mass twice a year. There are Catholics like me, who go more frequently, but have disagreements. There are Catholics like my girlfriend, who goes to mass every weekend, who was an altar server for years, and who taught CCD, and who still uses the pill. And there are super Catholics like the cardinals and the Pope who are... well, super Catholics--they obviously fully believe what they preach.

The theology of sex that the Catholic Church espouses is an interesting one; I find it beautiful, personally. But not to the extent that I would give up contraception, masturbation, oral sex, etc to live that philosophy. And no to the extent that I expect homosexuals to give up homosexual sex.

Whats wrong with the Pope? I mean im Protestant so I dont see the Pope as having religious authority over me but I still respect him as the leader of the Catholic Church. Yeah I know the last Pope is on his way to sainthood and thats a hard act to follow but the current Pope isnt bad.

But in my opinion (as a non Catholic) although I didn't agree with John-Paul II I thought he was a great role-model for young Catholics. He was a guy who really fought for what he believed in and truly acted as an envoy.

New Pope on the other hand is a douche and is about the opposite of John Paul in my big-book-o-opinons (and it is quite large.)

Although I don't think he is a Nazi.

Holy shit. Thank you for your balanced and respectful opinions. I'm going to petition to put you both on the way to saint hood, given your lack of sarcasm and virulence.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Finally, please pardon me if I said anything incendiary towards any other group: I am merely reacting defensively to what has been a nearly one sided discussion.

It states clearelly in the bible that in order to follow Jesus, you must sell all you're belongings...

(This is a reply to a comment of mine you quoted by the way, I fell a bit lazy today to search threw all those quotes to find mine, but you say that

 

[Overlord_Dave]

Here are some fun facts about past popes (all taken from The QI Annual: 'E', Faber and Faber Ltd., 2007). Chances are Wikipedia will also agree.

- During the 11th century, the papacy was almost completely controlled by a group of papal mothers, lovers and prostitutes; it was a period referred to as the 'pornocracy'.

- Benedict the IX believed that the papacy was a good way to make money, and sold his job for 650Kg of gold.

- Pope Alexander was a 'married, philandering, nepotistic murderer', according to the book.

Being the pope sounds like fun.

 

[Trilby]

It states clearelly in the bible that in order to follow Jesus, you must sell all you're belongings...

(This is a reply to a comment of mine you quoted by the way, I fell a bit lazy today to search threw all those quotes to find mine, but you say that

Yes, and that kind of worked when you had a grand total of twelve people tagging around after him. When you've got a global church of over a billion people, you can't really urge them to become suddenly homeless. And so the current teaching is to give at least 10% of your earnings to charity.

Also, let's pretend the Church suddenly sold all its possessions. All those churches, paintings, assets all around the world. How, then, would it be able to do good?

 

[Skeleon]

It could, you know, use the earnings to buy condoms, antibiotics, food, wells and other stuff the world actually needs.
Why do we need giant, cold stone-halls plastered with gold to believe in something?
Reminds me of LotR, actually, when Gandalf talks about the "tombs of dead lords, more splendid than the homes of the living" or something similar.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

I think Pope is a pretty cool guy. Eh kills...Ow, stop hitting me!

I like the Pope, the Pope smokes...Ok, I'll stop, please put the chair down.

I am utterly indifferent to the Pope.

 

[goofiegirl2002]

I dislike the pope personally because I think he plays and acts like god.