Poll: What Fallout: New Vegas faction is your favorite
- Thread starter The_Lost_King
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As some of you may already know, I went with Mr. House. To me it seems that Mr. House is the only one with the ambition and the technology to pull humanity out of the hole it's been hiding in for the last 200 years.
NCR would be my second choice, but as it stands to me, everyone in it is either a pompous prick or an asshole.
NCR would be my second choice, but as it stands to me, everyone in it is either a pompous prick or an asshole.
NCR. Corrupt yes, but they were the best for lasting peace in the region.
That being said, I would have preferred more diversity in the factions. It would make me want to play the game more.
That being said, I would have preferred more diversity in the factions. It would make me want to play the game more.
Would traders trade with cities that aren't wealthy. No, they wouldn't unless it was a city of criminals and the legion makes sure there are no criminals.Tuesday Night Fever said:
Since when is starting from a small town starting from square 1? By that logic Chicago started from square 1. I am not talking about Social square 1 I am talking technological square 1. Have you played mass effect? If you have have you listened to legion saying how there are many paths to the same technology and that is why they don't use reaper tech. When I mean starting at square 1 I mean go back to Roman technology and then find our own path. The Legion doesn't educate its citizens is so that it can do that very thing. Keep your citizens ignorant of the way things used to be and you can create it using a path that won't end in total nuclear warfare.
Grey areas are good. They make us really think about our choices, why we believe in them.
A "good" and "bad" ending really aren't much fun - it's puppies or Nazis. Grey choices, though... they really help us discover a little about ourselves.
The NCR is fine (in theory), but they only emulate the past. They don't really understand it, and they will fall.
The Legion tries for peace and order through oppression. Time shows us, though, that these regimes fall as people begin to think for themselves and fear the future more than immediate pain.
House is trying to rebuild the Old World as fast and painlessly as he can. Doing so, he causes massive pain to a decent number of people.
Yes Man (well, anarchy really) is in the hope that people can be decent to each other for a change. Sadly, human nature is still an animal - power-hungry and greedy. Men are not nice to each other when one has the means to dominate the other, generally speaking.
All that said, I think House has the best chance to salvage the Mojave. He's ruthless, to be certain. Yet he knows how to rebuild the world better than it was before the war.
And that said, I never choose House. I choose Yes Man. Because I foolishly believe in the decency of humanity.
A "good" and "bad" ending really aren't much fun - it's puppies or Nazis. Grey choices, though... they really help us discover a little about ourselves.
The NCR is fine (in theory), but they only emulate the past. They don't really understand it, and they will fall.
The Legion tries for peace and order through oppression. Time shows us, though, that these regimes fall as people begin to think for themselves and fear the future more than immediate pain.
House is trying to rebuild the Old World as fast and painlessly as he can. Doing so, he causes massive pain to a decent number of people.
Yes Man (well, anarchy really) is in the hope that people can be decent to each other for a change. Sadly, human nature is still an animal - power-hungry and greedy. Men are not nice to each other when one has the means to dominate the other, generally speaking.
All that said, I think House has the best chance to salvage the Mojave. He's ruthless, to be certain. Yet he knows how to rebuild the world better than it was before the war.
And that said, I never choose House. I choose Yes Man. Because I foolishly believe in the decency of humanity.
NCR.
They're the only functioning entity that resembles a nation-state, their only problem is over expansion in the short term but that is excusable in NV since Hoover Dam is an emmesely valuable strategic resource that was under threat of falling to a rival power. They just have to learn from their ancestor: Conquest of North America is a slow, steady process.
I also find the accusations of corruption rich. Give one example of an expanding nation with colonial interests that wasn't heavily corrupt? Even at that most of the corruption on the frontiers of their territory and that seems to be the case with NCR.
Just as their capital was once a backwater and now isn't in NVs time so too will come the growth of re-civilization.
Caesar's Legion are just barbarians with a thin veneer of ideology hiding that fact. They're also a one-man entity that will not outlive that one man, everyone but Caesar is a barbarian LARPing as a Roman.
Brotherhood are too isolationist and too fixated on the ideological bent of hording technology and keeping it from everyone else. Their best best would have/ would be to merge with NCR and co-op their growing statehood to accomplish their ends with the means to do so.
House is your typical technocrat with promises built on sand. His premise of saving humanity has nothing solid backing it and is yet another one-man operation. He'd make it his way or let everyone burn and he can only live for so long, he won't be leaving behind anyone to fill his shoes no matter what he tells the protagonist.
Followers are ideological idiots who have no backing behind them to forge an emerging state and lack the means to do so, both psychically and mentally: They are completely lacking in ruthlessness which means they're nothing but their beliefs, fluffy thoughts.
This is the reason why the NCR is the only candidate: They're fighting to maintain enough of the Old World representative republic while conforming to the realities of the world they're in as well as being a rational nation-state and looking out fort their own welfare while expanding and guarding their interests with little regard to anyone that is unable to stand in their way.
Like any pacifistic movement facing a violent and amoral enemy, they'd only make a world in which there weren't any Followers.
They do it for both reason you've listed.
I doubt that such an independent power would last, the population is simply too fractured, and as House correctly calls them, are merely the barbarians of the wasteland given the creature comforts of the Old World. The simply lack the education to be able to forge a nation-state in the immediate future with NCR being a neighbour and having over a century of time to build a solid foundation to work on.
Nuclear deterrent severely limits a nations ability to expand because they have to factor in other nations nuclear weapons, but it guarantees the integrity of their nation: Invade us and we launch.
Both nations invading each other wouldn't have happened. Not a single Chinese boot would touch Continental North American soil because the End of the World would have come once it was clear that the Chinese invasion fleet could not be stopped from making landfall.
This is very reason that gets the Boomers to side with whomever the protagonist tells them to.
?Wherever there is a jackboot stomping on a human face there will be a well-heeled Western liberal to explain that the face does, after all, enjoy free health care and 100 percent literacy.?
― John Derbyshire
Caesar cares about everybody, he cares that they do what they're told, or else.
He is no different that any other charismatic authoritarian leader.
One comes before the other: Before they can prevent themselves from repeating those mistakes they have to create a stable enough nation to even begin to work on the major minor details, much less avoiding.
For now they're busy dealing with the challenges reality is presenting them NOW.
What you're asking of them would be to criticize the United States of the mid 19th Century for not dealing with the dangers that the United States of the mid-20th Century faced.
They're the only functioning entity that resembles a nation-state, their only problem is over expansion in the short term but that is excusable in NV since Hoover Dam is an emmesely valuable strategic resource that was under threat of falling to a rival power. They just have to learn from their ancestor: Conquest of North America is a slow, steady process.
I also find the accusations of corruption rich. Give one example of an expanding nation with colonial interests that wasn't heavily corrupt? Even at that most of the corruption on the frontiers of their territory and that seems to be the case with NCR.
Just as their capital was once a backwater and now isn't in NVs time so too will come the growth of re-civilization.
Caesar's Legion are just barbarians with a thin veneer of ideology hiding that fact. They're also a one-man entity that will not outlive that one man, everyone but Caesar is a barbarian LARPing as a Roman.
Brotherhood are too isolationist and too fixated on the ideological bent of hording technology and keeping it from everyone else. Their best best would have/ would be to merge with NCR and co-op their growing statehood to accomplish their ends with the means to do so.
House is your typical technocrat with promises built on sand. His premise of saving humanity has nothing solid backing it and is yet another one-man operation. He'd make it his way or let everyone burn and he can only live for so long, he won't be leaving behind anyone to fill his shoes no matter what he tells the protagonist.
Followers are ideological idiots who have no backing behind them to forge an emerging state and lack the means to do so, both psychically and mentally: They are completely lacking in ruthlessness which means they're nothing but their beliefs, fluffy thoughts.
This is the reason why the NCR is the only candidate: They're fighting to maintain enough of the Old World representative republic while conforming to the realities of the world they're in as well as being a rational nation-state and looking out fort their own welfare while expanding and guarding their interests with little regard to anyone that is unable to stand in their way.
Like any militant ideology they'll only accept absolute conformity to it. Even if the Followers weren't a real threat, they'd still be different and thus dangerous. It doesn't help that they're peaceniks and the direct opposite of the Legion in every way.
Like any pacifistic movement facing a violent and amoral enemy, they'd only make a world in which there weren't any Followers.
They're a democratic nation-state.
They do it for both reason you've listed.
Only hope for New Vegas in that choice is if they get things together and become a new, expanding power like NCR. If they don't then then the NCR will recover in time and extend into the Mojave better prepared. Like the Boomers against the Legion, it won't matter how many robots they have if it comes to a war of attrition.
I doubt that such an independent power would last, the population is simply too fractured, and as House correctly calls them, are merely the barbarians of the wasteland given the creature comforts of the Old World. The simply lack the education to be able to forge a nation-state in the immediate future with NCR being a neighbour and having over a century of time to build a solid foundation to work on.
Like all barbarian tribes they only exist a the vacuum of power. Either one forms a nation and takes them over or a preexisting power like NCR, which was formed from such barbarians, will come along and integrate them into their country, one way or another.
If FOs back history was based in reality then the US would have been the first to launch, in retaliation for the invasion of US territory.
Nuclear deterrent severely limits a nations ability to expand because they have to factor in other nations nuclear weapons, but it guarantees the integrity of their nation: Invade us and we launch.
Both nations invading each other wouldn't have happened. Not a single Chinese boot would touch Continental North American soil because the End of the World would have come once it was clear that the Chinese invasion fleet could not be stopped from making landfall.
Boomers are foolish isolationist like the Brotherhood, only far weaker than them. They're strong, but too weak to remain an independent power anymore. Placed between two powerful states they no room to maneuver. They either must join one or get wiped out should the Legion win because they wouldn't tolerate such a powerful neighbour.
This is very reason that gets the Boomers to side with whomever the protagonist tells them to.
My immediate thought reading this naivety was this quote:
?Wherever there is a jackboot stomping on a human face there will be a well-heeled Western liberal to explain that the face does, after all, enjoy free health care and 100 percent literacy.?
― John Derbyshire
Caesar cares about everybody, he cares that they do what they're told, or else.
He is no different that any other charismatic authoritarian leader.
NCR's heart is in the right place. You do what you can do.
One comes before the other: Before they can prevent themselves from repeating those mistakes they have to create a stable enough nation to even begin to work on the major minor details, much less avoiding.
For now they're busy dealing with the challenges reality is presenting them NOW.
What you're asking of them would be to criticize the United States of the mid 19th Century for not dealing with the dangers that the United States of the mid-20th Century faced.
I ended up going with NCR I think in my playthrough since its sort of the default option but I honestly don't really like any of them, I'm pretty sure I murdered hundreds of every faction for their cool hats anyway.
I voted yes man since all the other options are shite. I chose to lead the way forward myself rather than sit back and let other people take control...they did after all cause the mess in the first place. No rules are better than poor rules.
I chose House. Because while he doesn't particularly care about anything outside Vegas, he at least kept the city safe from nukes and he has the robot army to continue protecting it.
Actually, yes, traders would trade in cities that aren't wealthy, because it's about trading. While a currency exists in the Fallout universe, the vast majority of transactions done by caravans are trading one commodity for another. That's the excuse that was set up in the very first game for why people are willing to give you stuff for all the random crap you bring to them. Beyond that, the currency is hardly standardized. Throughout the course of the series we've seen bottle caps, ring pulls, Brotherhood script, NCR script, Legion script, two different mining community scripts, and even actual minted coins in the Fallout 2 region. There's probably other forms of currency in other regions as well.The_Lost_King said:
And even assuming that there was a standardized currency, there's still benefit to setting up shop in a region that isn't particularly wealthy. If you're able to identify and corner a particular market with little to no competition, it forces people to rely upon you as their sole source of whatever it is you're providing. Even if it doesn't make you immediately wealthy, it gives you a bit of power and control over the region.
Starting from a technological square 1 is, quite frankly, not possible. Pandora's box has already been opened. The Legion can deny and destroy technology all it wants, but it'll still be out there. And eliminating it would quite frankly be idiotic. Any other faction with access to old-world military equipment as well as competent organization and tactics (the last part being what NCR tends to lack) would completely annihilate the Legion's military presence in an afternoon. If the Brotherhood of Steel actually cared about asserting itself as the primary power-player in the region, the Legion would be screwed. In a stand-up toe-to-toe fight between highly-trained soldiers in full well-maintained power armor wielding laser, plasma, and gauss weaponry... a bunch of Legion infantry wearing football and hockey pads with an assortment of baseball bats and machetes would be completely ineffectual at best. But it'd be especially medical technology that would be dumb to ditch - and we know the Legion plans to, given their aversion to Stimpacks and other medical items. Hell, if you actually do the Legion story line and opt to keep Caesar alive, you have to cure the guy's cancer with an Auto-Doc. So for one thing, Caesar's Legion would have been crippled without old-world technology... and for another, they're clearly lacking in moral consistency. Caesar's cancer situation really says nothing more than "We're totally against pre-existing technology... unless it's beneficial to us in some way..."
If we're operating under the assumption that the Legion is eliminating technology so that it "can find its own path" toward useful technology we're also operating under the assumption that they have scientists, engineers, etc. working to invent things. For one, we have no evidence of that. Like... at all. Additionally, it's highly unlikely as the Legion has also shown itself as being completely against education outside of combat training. There needs to be some kind of ground work in place for it to be even possible to get beyond square 1 technologically, and the Legion is actively trying to prevent that. Advancement wouldn't be slow, it'd be nonexistent.
How about we name some of the pros and cons of each main faction?
New California Republic-
Pros: They've got an organized society with an army thats capable of defending it. They're weapons are fairly strong, and they're willing to start alliances with other groups.
Cons: They've got a corrupt government that spreads its army to thin. Its suggested when talking to the arms dealer at 188 Trading Outpost that they don't give good training to their troops.
Caesars Legion-
Pros: Their territory is described as being very safe (as in there are no raider organizations like the Fiends). They've got a large army that is trained to fight to the death and never back down.
Cons: Due to their reputation they have very few allies. They frown upon the use of technology and most forms of medicine (tribal remedies are permitted, however). They don't educate their citizens, for fear of being exposed as copy cats of an ancient civilization. It's centered around Caesar, and when he dies it will rip itself apart.
Robert House-
Pros: He's got access to an entire army of securitrons. He saved vegas and the surrounding area from the nuclear apocalypse. He's basically immortal due to the life support system he uses.
Cons: He's rather selfish, caring mainly about himself and his continued rule over the Strip. While being immortal, he is NOT invincible, as he can be killed if someone gains access to his life support system.
Yes Man-
Pros: Siding with him would allow Vegas to spring up as an independent state. An army of securitrons would be used to protect Vegas from threats, both inside and out. The tribes could be convinced to ally with you, which further increases Vegas' military power.
Cons: The people of Vegas might not want to associate which each other peacefully, which might result in chaos. It would surely take time for the people to accept a new leader and government, and during this time there is sure to be several handfuls of problems.
Now to answer the threads question. Whenever I finish the main quest line, I usually side with Yes Man and perform actions that would stabilize Vegas for some time post game (killing both Lanius and Oliver so the NCR and Legion are both lacking their commanding officers). My favorite faction is Yes Man, followed closely by the Legion due to their effective, albeit violent way of stabilizing regions.
New California Republic-
Pros: They've got an organized society with an army thats capable of defending it. They're weapons are fairly strong, and they're willing to start alliances with other groups.
Cons: They've got a corrupt government that spreads its army to thin. Its suggested when talking to the arms dealer at 188 Trading Outpost that they don't give good training to their troops.
Caesars Legion-
Pros: Their territory is described as being very safe (as in there are no raider organizations like the Fiends). They've got a large army that is trained to fight to the death and never back down.
Cons: Due to their reputation they have very few allies. They frown upon the use of technology and most forms of medicine (tribal remedies are permitted, however). They don't educate their citizens, for fear of being exposed as copy cats of an ancient civilization. It's centered around Caesar, and when he dies it will rip itself apart.
Robert House-
Pros: He's got access to an entire army of securitrons. He saved vegas and the surrounding area from the nuclear apocalypse. He's basically immortal due to the life support system he uses.
Cons: He's rather selfish, caring mainly about himself and his continued rule over the Strip. While being immortal, he is NOT invincible, as he can be killed if someone gains access to his life support system.
Yes Man-
Pros: Siding with him would allow Vegas to spring up as an independent state. An army of securitrons would be used to protect Vegas from threats, both inside and out. The tribes could be convinced to ally with you, which further increases Vegas' military power.
Cons: The people of Vegas might not want to associate which each other peacefully, which might result in chaos. It would surely take time for the people to accept a new leader and government, and during this time there is sure to be several handfuls of problems.
Now to answer the threads question. Whenever I finish the main quest line, I usually side with Yes Man and perform actions that would stabilize Vegas for some time post game (killing both Lanius and Oliver so the NCR and Legion are both lacking their commanding officers). My favorite faction is Yes Man, followed closely by the Legion due to their effective, albeit violent way of stabilizing regions.
Either House or Yes Man/Courier.
Legion is godawful for obvious reasons. NCR simply doesn't have the capability to maintain a monopoly on violence (even wartime is a shitty excuse for not being able to do a better job dealing with the fiends).
House is hardly the ideal leader, but he's competent and he's mostly willing to let people live their lives. As for Yes/Man Courier that really boils down to the courier I'm playing with (and working on the assumption that the courier does at least end up power sharing with Yes Man, its never really clear if he betrays you or not). If its the diplomatic courier who relies on leadership to get through fights she might make a better leader than House. Especially with Yes Man's resources and the alliances its possible to form. On the other hand if its the version of the Courier I play who thinks that stripping naked and fighting a deathclaw with nothing but a knife and a fistful of drugs is the best idea ever... well, the legion might not actually be the *worst* choice.
Legion is godawful for obvious reasons. NCR simply doesn't have the capability to maintain a monopoly on violence (even wartime is a shitty excuse for not being able to do a better job dealing with the fiends).
House is hardly the ideal leader, but he's competent and he's mostly willing to let people live their lives. As for Yes/Man Courier that really boils down to the courier I'm playing with (and working on the assumption that the courier does at least end up power sharing with Yes Man, its never really clear if he betrays you or not). If its the diplomatic courier who relies on leadership to get through fights she might make a better leader than House. Especially with Yes Man's resources and the alliances its possible to form. On the other hand if its the version of the Courier I play who thinks that stripping naked and fighting a deathclaw with nothing but a knife and a fistful of drugs is the best idea ever... well, the legion might not actually be the *worst* choice.