Poll: What if an RPG used real races?

[Kvaedi]

I don't think it would be racist since:

1. Stereotypes exist for a reason
2. for it to be racist you would need to weigh them differently (I mean punish or reward the player for picking a specific race) than the others. In other words the game must be neutral

1. Yes, they exist because of the way the human brain works. If you start looking into real people, you'll find that hardly any would fit in anything but very broad definitions.

2. It's racist to assume a person is a certain way based on the color of thier skin. Simple as that.

Different races are different. Native Americans have little resistance to the effects of alcohol, it's not racist, it's a fact; since they have been exposed to it far less than almost the entire rest of humanity, they have built up little of a resistance. Now, does that mean all of them are drunks? Certainly not, and that belief IS racist.

Your average white or black person is taller than the average Asian person. This is not racist, this is a fact, caused by the diet typical of Asian countries. Now, if you believed all Asians were physically inferior because of that, that WOULD be racist.

 

[kabooz18]

-snip-

1. Yes, they exist because of the way the human brain works. If you start looking into real people, you'll find that hardly any would fit in anything but very broad definitions.

2. It's racist to assume a person is a certain way based on the color of thier skin. Simple as that.

to your first: that's not what I meant what I meant is Stereotypes are an effect not a cause so there's always a reason for them to exist.

to your second yes of course it is but that goes for an individual, also if you were to study some medicine you would find out that peoples (races -.- I don't think that word really fits)
actually have anatomical differences. They even have different affinities for illnesses sometimes

 

[kaizen2468]

Since I'm one of the only non racist people around, I'd be fine with it. It's the truly racist that would be offended by it.

 

[DannyJBeckett]

You never played Fallout did you? They didn't have 'racial bonuses', but they made damn clear people were either White, Black, Hispanic or Asian.

 

[CaptainKarma]

People would rage and whine and flame and piss and moan. But I'd consider it the single funniest thing in the world. Why? Because it would be doing the South Park thing-making fun of everyone and everything.

"Making fun of everything" is not an excuse for racism. If everyone was equal, then maybe. But people aren't equal. There's still massive ingrained racism and prejudice. Yeah, as a cishet-white-male I might be able to shrug off offensive stereotypes, but that's a luxury not everyone has.

 

[CaptainKarma]

Baa Baa Black Sheep has been banned in many nurseries now, for racism. Political Correctness has gone insane so although I'm likely to only find it mildly offensive (depending on how its done) that game would get sued so much, the profit made wouldnt even pay for the lawyers to defend it.

Prove it. Give me one single goddamn verifiable example of someone banning Baa Baa Black Sheep. This fucking myth has been circulating for TWENTY-FIVE years. It's a lie! It DOES. NOT. HAPPEN.

Every single time I've seen a story about this or similiar (banning "brainstorm" and the like) it's been a misrepresentation at best, or often an outright fabrication.

 

[Kakashi on crack]

No, it wouldn't be racist

Yes there would be a political shit storm by "politically correct" activists.

/thread

 

[SciMal]

Would you also like me to quote a few journals telling you that my keyboard is black and the sky is blue? This is what's called 'empirical' information, and no amount of theories can reject this. Fact is, the environments of different countries create differences in the people born there. For different reasons. Poland and Germany are neighbouring countries, yet I've never mistaken a German for a Pole, or a Pole for a German. Clearly, you don't know what you're talking about.

Do you want a shovel, or are you content with your hands?

If your empirical information is correct and you've never mistaken a Pole for a German (or a Brit for an Italian, etc.), then I think it's time for a quick test.

Name the "race" of these men! I even made it easy for you, it's only pale skin tones here.

 

[Thyunda]

Would you also like me to quote a few journals telling you that my keyboard is black and the sky is blue? This is what's called 'empirical' information, and no amount of theories can reject this. Fact is, the environments of different countries create differences in the people born there. For different reasons. Poland and Germany are neighbouring countries, yet I've never mistaken a German for a Pole, or a Pole for a German. Clearly, you don't know what you're talking about.

Do you want a shovel, or are you content with your hands?

If your empirical information is correct and you've never mistaken a Pole for a German (or a Brit for an Italian, etc.), then I think it's time for a quick test.

Name the "race" of these men! I even made it easy for you, it's only pale skin tones here.

I rely on the Polish face, actually, to distinguish. Now look, I'm not an expert. Didn't even pretend I was. I'm not GOOD at defining differences, what I'm saying is that it's POSSIBLE to see the differences BECAUSE THEY EXIST.
This may actually be the most childish response you've given, in your normally quite mature argument. It's like arguing evolution with a Creationist, and having them turn around and loudly shout "EXPLAIN HOW IT WORKS IN SCIENTIFIC DETAIL". The evidence is there, but you don't have the education or practice to do so. Or, you might do, in which case use an argument you're not familiar with.

However, I will say that the second guy down has a very Mediterranean look about him. At a guess, I would say either Greek or Italian. And that last guy, I was tempted to say Polish at first, going off the close eyes, but his cheekbones aren't quite so prominent, so I actually think he might be German. Cripes. You found the one Pole I might mistake for a German. Or the other way around. Curse you.

Go on. Was I close with those two? (The others I didn't identify any of the traits I'm personally familiar with. I know my Poles because I've met a lot of Eastern Europeans, and the Poles all had very similar facial builds. The Latvians looked a lot...rougher...though it was suspected that they were ethnic Russian. So I don't know.)


EDIT: After answering with my two guesses, I Googled the images. Seeing a picture of the second guy when he was younger, he had a more Israeli look to him, which confused me.
And your Pole was Artur Boruc. Goalkeeper for Celtic FC, whose games I watch regularly. How I didn't recognise him, I don't know. I should be ashamed. But he's Polish. So I will claim a point for that one. The first guy was 'Asian American'? Kinda explains why I couldn't identify anything with him.

 

[ResonanceSD]

Imagine an RPG that used real races, and gave the character stereotypical stat bonuses. Say, if you chose Russian you would get an HP bonus because they are notoriously hard to kill. Or if you choose African you could run faster. Americans, could... I don't know maybe shout AMERICA!! and inspire one another (giving a stat bonus). etc.

I guess the heart of the real question is: Is re-enforcing positive stereotypes offensive?





EDIT: Alright, I realize now that I should have said National bonuses instead of racial ones. So please stop correcting me on that. Also, yes I realize Africa isn't a country, so no need to point that out, you smug bastard. (jk)

Races: Asian, Caucasian, African, (Polynesian/Melanesian, etc)

Nationalities: Pick a country.


No it wouldn't be offensive, it's already done in Civ. You'd have to be very, very careful about how it's implemented so that the whinger-brigade doesn't get up in arms.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

I remember seeing a mod for resistance where if you played as an asian it gave you a bonus to computer skills or something.

Seeing as the premise involves every race having something which is clearly an advantage it isn't putting one race on a pedestal or pulling others down. Necessarily. But I think it would probably end up badly.

 

[Scarim Coral]

I admit I would like to see it getting made just for the lol's but none the less people will get offended by it.
I don't think it would be racist well maybe depending how sterotypical it is and it only count as racist if people give in and use the racist card.

 

[SciMal]

I rely on the Polish face, actually, to distinguish. Now look, I'm not an expert. Didn't even pretend I was. I'm not GOOD at defining differences, what I'm saying is that it's POSSIBLE to see the differences BECAUSE THEY EXIST.
This may actually be the most childish response you've given, in your normally quite mature argument. It's like arguing evolution with a Creationist, and having them turn around and loudly shout "EXPLAIN HOW IT WORKS IN SCIENTIFIC DETAIL". The evidence is there, but you don't have the education or practice to do so. Or, you might do, in which case use an argument you're not familiar with.

However, I will say that the second guy down has a very Mediterranean look about him. At a guess, I would say either Greek or Italian. And that last guy, I was tempted to say Polish at first, going off the close eyes, but his cheekbones aren't quite so prominent, so I actually think he might be German. Cripes. You found the one Pole I might mistake for a German. Or the other way around. Curse you.

Go on. Was I close with those two? (The others I didn't identify any of the traits I'm personally familiar with. I know my Poles because I've met a lot of Eastern Europeans, and the Poles all had very similar facial builds. The Latvians looked a lot...rougher...though it was suspected that they were ethnic Russian. So I don't know.)


EDIT: After answering with my two guesses, I Googled the images. Seeing a picture of the second guy when he was younger, he had a more Israeli look to him, which confused me.
And your Pole was Artur Boruc. Goalkeeper for Celtic FC, whose games I watch regularly. How I didn't recognise him, I don't know. I should be ashamed. But he's Polish. So I will claim a point for that one. The first guy was 'Asian American'? Kinda explains why I couldn't identify anything with him.

So you had to look up the nationality of the last guy, even though you watch him regularly and proclaimed you were always capable of picking out his people.

I'm counting this as a Win for the refutation of human "races." At least until we actually develop subspecies, but given the increased global economy and exponential interbreeding of populations, I doubt it'll be anytime soon.

 

[LilithSlave]

The shitstorm that would follow would be unmanageable.

That would be very, very true.

And hilarious.

 

[00slash00]

you chose some really weird stereotypes. i had never heard the stereotype of Russians being hard to kill. i was expecting something like, stat boosts for drinking alcohol or something. anyway, i can see that easily becoming offensive if its done in a serious manner.

 

[CarlsonAndPeeters]

Well if you're going to stereotype (whether they're largely accurate or not), you're going to get a lot of flack from the public, so I wouldn't see a developer taking that risk, especially when no one (I think?) is demanding such a race system.

I wouldn't mind, but I don't think it'll ever happen.

 

[AnotherAvatar]

So long as the game avoided negative racist stereo types I think it would be fine. Honestly I feel like the way our culture looks at racism is kind of weird, I mean yes we discourage violence and discrimination but we also totally try and ignore that we even are different. Get this: each race's culture and the location in which that culture grew help shape the skills of it's people, it won't always apply across the board, especially if they have relocated. This isn't something we should try to ignore to say "everyone is equal in every way", it's something we should acknowledge and use. But no, apparently telling people that they are their race is offensive these days....


Anyway, I think it would make for an awesome RPG mechanic, oh, and for the record, Anglo-Saxons (white people, for those not as nerdy as I) should have a bonus to speech, as throughout history we've use the silver tongue of the west to basically enslave every other culture, or at least attempt to... However, years of relying on our rhetoric has left us weak and lazy. See, the trick for this sort of game would be to make any negative racial based stat changes easy to overcome if one choose to do so.

No two men are born equal, some are of fleeter foot than others, some are smarter than others. It is this difference that helps us, with the smart helping the dumb, the fast helping the slow and the strong helping the weak,

If we were all the same then the world would be a dull dull place.

I couldn't agree more, well spoken.