Poll: What if an RPG used real races?

Recommended Videos

manaman

New member
Sep 2, 2007
3,218
0
0
x-machina said:
EDIT: Alright, I realize now that I should have said National bonuses instead of racial ones. So please stop correcting me on that. Also, yes I realize Africa isn't a country, so no need to point that out, you smug bastard. (jk)
Actually nationalities are races as well. The origin of the word can be traced back to when it was "raza" used to describe a tribe, generation, or people with a common occupation. While there is a sort of push these days to do away with all other definitions then:

A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.

A population of organisms differing from others of the same species in the frequency of hereditary traits; a subspecies.

A breed or strain, as of domestic animals.


You will still find:

Any people united by common history, language, cultural traits, etc.: the Dutch race.

In most dictionaries.
 

Auron225

New member
Oct 26, 2009
1,790
0
0
CaptainKarma said:
Auron225 said:
Baa Baa Black Sheep has been banned in many nurseries now, for racism. Political Correctness has gone insane so although I'm likely to only find it mildly offensive (depending on how its done) that game would get sued so much, the profit made wouldnt even pay for the lawyers to defend it.
Prove it. Give me one single goddamn verifiable example of someone banning Baa Baa Black Sheep. This fucking myth has been circulating for TWENTY-FIVE years. It's a lie! It DOES. NOT. HAPPEN.

Every single time I've seen a story about this or similiar (banning "brainstorm" and the like) it's been a misrepresentation at best, or often an outright fabrication.
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/education/s/207/207086_black_sheep_banned_at_nursery.html

Whether or not this particular case is true or not, Ive seen dozens of other examples of this and they're really not hard to find. My point still stands that people almost try to be offended at things these days.

Another example: http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=46630. Ikea is now sexist as their instruction manuals only show men setting up the furniture?

One more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7079231/Advert-for-reliable-workers-banned-as-discrimination-by-Jobcentre-Plus.html

If you're gonna reply, can you please not get so pissed off this time? Contrary to popular belief, Im not actually trying to offend you. I dont even know who you are.
 

Nouw

New member
Mar 18, 2009
15,615
0
0
By racism's definition, this would be racist. Would it be a funny or positive/negative racist? Subjective. Personally I think that it would have great potential to be funny and that it wouldn't always be a negative racism.
 

Fieldy409_v1legacy

New member
Oct 9, 2008
2,686
0
0
Well, I don't think it's racist to acknowledge there are physical differences between races. If you believe in evolution you can't tell me the ONLY difference between races is skin colour. I'm a white man and I envy certain Africans and the Maori people for their ability to gain muscles a little bit easier than us white people.

Plus on top of that there's the culture your raised in affecting your mind and attitude.
 

Malyc

Bullets... they don't affect me.
Feb 17, 2010
3,083
0
0
Racism only applies if it is a white person who is writing the game. Think about it: in America, we have days, weeks, or months of awareness for asians, black people, hispanics, and pretty much everything, but not one for white people.
(Really, races doesn't even apply to the different groups of humans out there, but there's always some asshole who gets pissed off about the small things.)

*waits for banhammer to get dropped.
 

viking97

New member
Jan 23, 2010
858
0
0
probably work better if you went by countries rather then races, as that tends to illicit less negative reactions. could work as like a downloadable indie game in the style of final fantasy except with a lot of humor. if it had these systems but the rest of the game was stonefaced serial that would be pretty weird.
 

Nocturnal Gentleman

New member
Mar 12, 2010
372
0
0
Seeing as how a lot of games still portray different races very badly I'd rather not see this. Not now anyway. Maybe with more time and keep it devoid of negative stereotypes. However, there should always be an option to mix to change advantages regardless of race.
 

Syzygy23

New member
Sep 20, 2010
824
0
0
Tree man said:
AnotherAvatar said:
So long as the game avoided negative racist stereo types I think it would be fine. Honestly I feel like the way our culture looks at racism is kind of weird, I mean yes we discourage violence and discrimination but we also totally try and ignore that we even are different. Get this: each race's culture and the location in which that culture grew help shape the skills of it's people, it won't always apply across the board, especially if they have relocated. This isn't something we should try to ignore to say "everyone is equal in every way", it's something we should acknowledge and use. But no, apparently telling people that they are their race is offensive these days....


Anyway, I think it would make for an awesome RPG mechanic, oh, and for the record, Anglo-Saxons (white people, for those not as nerdy as I) should have a bonus to speech, as throughout history we've use the silver tongue of the west to basically enslave every other culture, or at least attempt to... However, years of relying on our rhetoric has left us weak and lazy. See, the trick for this sort of game would be to make any negative racial based stat changes easy to overcome if one choose to do so.
No two men are born equal, some are of fleeter foot than others, some are smarter than others. It is this difference that helps us, with the smart helping the dumb, the fast helping the slow and the strong helping the weak,

If we were all the same then the world would be a dull dull place.
That SOUNDS nice, except more often than not those born with exceptional skill or physique will lord it over those who don't have it. Especially if it's smarts. Have you seen the way physicists behave toward other areas of scientific study? What a bunch of fucking dicks.
 

SciMal

New member
Dec 10, 2011
302
0
0
Thyunda said:
I didn't HAVE to look it up, dumbshit, I looked it up afterwards to see if I was accurate.
Ha ha ha ha ha... ha ha ha ha... Yeah, that's it. Use that argument. It's not an oxymoron or anything.

Oh. And not sure how to tell you this, but it's hard to see faces from the stands. So you can't count it as a win, because it's simply not one. I even outlined why he's Polish before I looked him up. Anyway, what about James Ceasar? He intrigued me because I couldn't decide between Mediterranean and Israeli. Care to tell me on that one?
Do I have to? I picked 5 pale-skinned men off of Google. You couldn't positively identify any without either reassuring yourself or looking them up. They weren't from minor African nations or esoteric regions of India. I didn't ask for your opinion on the origins of guys from South America or various Polynesian islands.

They were Americans, a Pol, and a Frenchman. Nationalities that have exposure everywhere that you've grown up with your entire life.

Yeah, I have no problem acknowledging that culture can dictate the attractiveness of certain physical traits - and since all physical traits have a genetic component, there isn't any denial from me that after several dozen generations a population could purposefully select for that trait. It happened. Less and less these days due to Globalization, but in the past the populations of villages and countries were pretty small.

However, to use the selected traits as a basis to determine significant physiological differences? Absurd. Human populations do vary, but the differences present between populations are not that significant.

The most impactful, by FAR, in any sort of recent history has been lactose tolerance. It opened up an entirely new source of calcium and caloric acquisition past childhood - which is why it was swept to fixation in the vast majority of European populations over a VERY short amount of time. It's so beneficial it actually evolved twice; the aforementioned European population, and once more via an entirely different mutation in an African population. Every other difference - slightly more efficient oxygen absorption, slightly less subcutaneous fat, slightly less susceptible to malaria, increased Vitamin D production, slightly increased or decreased metabolisms, slight variances in carbohydrate or alcohol metabolisms - don't come into play except under enormous amounts of training or evolutionary pressure. Worse yet, there aren't single nations that have exclusivity to any of them.

Not every Kenyan will out-run Canadians. Not every Aborigine will suffer Vitamin D deficiency in wintery climates. Not every Asian is short and thin. Not every American is white and fat. Not every... not every... not every...You get my point.

Every Swedish person is born with the ability to maintain lactase production, when most of the world cannot. In a handful of generations, given how much we're mingling, that advantage will be part of the global human population as well. Is lactose tolerance enough to define it as a separate race from the intolerant? More so than any other phenotype variant you or anybody else can see. At least it's somewhat exclusive to Caucasians and Africans (and their offspring)... for now.

Read the second edition of "Population Genetics" by Guillespie, look at the evidence for the various theories and how humanity grew out of a single population. I believe he also touches on epigenetic factors and the very significant impacts simple environmental changes can have on genetic expression. After that, feel free to give me your opinion on why you believe that a "Russian" deserves a different bonus in a video game than a "German" or an "American" (or why nationalities apply to races at all), and I'll be happy to engage you.

Until them, I'm out!
 

NotSoLoneWanderer

New member
Jul 5, 2011
765
0
0
That'd be pretty funny actually. Stereotypes are based in truth and it would be funny seeing them portrayed in a game...long as they don't go "too" far. In reality it's probably for the best that no one ever make a game like this...except for south park. The way the "jew" class is described is that the weaker the "jew" gets the stronger he/she becomes. Isn't that somewhat accurate?
-Black Guy
 

Thyunda

New member
May 4, 2009
2,955
0
0
SciMal said:
Ohhhh! I get it now! It's not that you're an idiot, it's that you've completely missed the point. See, as I constantly reinforced, not EVERY member of the race had the traits, but the STEREOTYPICAL member of the race WOULD.

For example. The English are well-known for their 'stiff upper lip'. This seemingly inexplicable trait is reinforced repeatedly by every disaster this country has. A man with Scottish parents, born in Africa will probably require a lot of sunscreen. There's this magical thing called 'genetics' that you constantly pull out, clearly not understanding them.

Explain to me, then, if everybody is automatically the same regardless of nation, why did the 10th century Muslims refer to the Norse traders as 'bear men'? Why did those same Norse explorers see the native Americans as 'wretches'? Why do you consistently struggle to accept that PEOPLE ARE DIFFERENT? We are not cast from the same mould, and we never will be. Yes. We interbreed. The modern-day Englishman will not look like the original Celt. As I already stated, I've met only one person with actual Celtic traits. And the fact that you can separate an original Celtic bloodline from a foreign influence is MORE evidence that YOU. ARE. WRONG.

Get it through your head. There are more races than 'Black' and 'White'. There is more to a person than the political borders in which he resides. There might not be much distinction in the newer countries, but look at the old kingdoms. A thousand years is enough to weather a family's face. We are NOT born as a generic blank slate.
I don't know why you continue to argue this.


Oh. And it's not an oxymoron. It's just you take so damn long to reply, I figured I should check my own answers. And as for the Americans, I can see it in the other guys, but not Ceasar. He's got a distinctive look about him. LOOK AT HIM. 'American' he may be, but I bet his parents (or at least grandparents) weren't born there.
Don't mistake insecurity in my own ability as me being wrong. Slight difference there.
 

CaptainKarma

New member
Dec 16, 2011
172
0
0
Auron225 said:
CaptainKarma said:
Auron225 said:
Baa Baa Black Sheep has been banned in many nurseries now, for racism. Political Correctness has gone insane so although I'm likely to only find it mildly offensive (depending on how its done) that game would get sued so much, the profit made wouldnt even pay for the lawyers to defend it.
Prove it. Give me one single goddamn verifiable example of someone banning Baa Baa Black Sheep. This fucking myth has been circulating for TWENTY-FIVE years. It's a lie! It DOES. NOT. HAPPEN.

Every single time I've seen a story about this or similiar (banning "brainstorm" and the like) it's been a misrepresentation at best, or often an outright fabrication.
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/education/s/207/207086_black_sheep_banned_at_nursery.html
Did you read your article? "But the charity Parents and Children Together, which runs the two centres, as well as two others in Didcot and Berinsfield, insisted the changes - which they have made in all of their family centres - were not down to race issues." Time and time again this happens the papers twist the story.

Another example: http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=46630. Ikea is now sexist as their instruction manuals only show men setting up the furniture?
You don't see anything inadvertently sexist in Ikea implying that men, and only men, can assemble their furniture? In popular culture there's a very prevalent of male as "default", there are all sorts of much more prominent and damaging examples than the Ikea one, but it's a nice gesture on my part.

One more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7079231/Advert-for-reliable-workers-banned-as-discrimination-by-Jobcentre-Plus.html

If you're gonna reply, can you please not get so pissed off this time? Contrary to popular belief, Im not actually trying to offend you. I dont even know who you are.
http://tabloid-watch.blogspot.com/2010/01/another-unreliable-pc-gone-mad-story.html

Oh look, fabrication. I will not apologise for being angry, this is something that really gets my goat. There's a deliberate and widespread warping of facts to construct this "PC gone mad" bollocks.
 

Marcus Kehoe

New member
Mar 18, 2011
758
0
0
Stat bonuses seem to be a bit harsh for me, but simply ability bonuses, which are actually a bigger thing makes more sense. I really can't think of a whole country that may be in better shape then one another, or that much smarter. But things like language abilities or what some of the average school might teach could affect things.

Maybe a list of ability choices cut for each country would be something. Maybe in countries worth more lenient gun laws weapon proficiency could be a benefit, or maybe counties where military service is necessarily just have given training.
 

Auron225

New member
Oct 26, 2009
1,790
0
0
CaptainKarma said:
Auron225 said:
CaptainKarma said:
Auron225 said:
Baa Baa Black Sheep has been banned in many nurseries now, for racism. Political Correctness has gone insane so although I'm likely to only find it mildly offensive (depending on how its done) that game would get sued so much, the profit made wouldnt even pay for the lawyers to defend it.
Prove it. Give me one single goddamn verifiable example of someone banning Baa Baa Black Sheep. This fucking myth has been circulating for TWENTY-FIVE years. It's a lie! It DOES. NOT. HAPPEN.

Every single time I've seen a story about this or similiar (banning "brainstorm" and the like) it's been a misrepresentation at best, or often an outright fabrication.
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/education/s/207/207086_black_sheep_banned_at_nursery.html
Did you read your article? "But the charity Parents and Children Together, which runs the two centres, as well as two others in Didcot and Berinsfield, insisted the changes - which they have made in all of their family centres - were not down to race issues." Time and time again this happens the papers twist the story.

Another example: http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=46630. Ikea is now sexist as their instruction manuals only show men setting up the furniture?
You don't see anything inadvertently sexist in Ikea implying that men, and only men, can assemble their furniture? In popular culture there's a very prevalent of male as "default", there are all sorts of much more prominent and damaging examples than the Ikea one, but it's a nice gesture on my part.

One more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7079231/Advert-for-reliable-workers-banned-as-discrimination-by-Jobcentre-Plus.html

If you're gonna reply, can you please not get so pissed off this time? Contrary to popular belief, Im not actually trying to offend you. I dont even know who you are.
http://tabloid-watch.blogspot.com/2010/01/another-unreliable-pc-gone-mad-story.html

Oh look, fabrication. I will not apologise for being angry, this is something that really gets my goat. There's a deliberate and widespread warping of facts to construct this "PC gone mad" bollocks.
Fair enough, I'll drop the Black sheep and Unreliable workers ones. But no, I dont think Ikea are proudly exclaiming how men should have the right to dominate women, by having cartoon men assembling cartoon furniture. The person assembling it has to be SOME gender, unless its an alien building cabinets. Im sure if you were to ask Ikea staff, they would tell you that of course women can assemble the furniture too. There are so many things in the world that deserve attention a hell of a lot more than this.

This one wasn't made up though, it really happened. If the friggin president will fight tooth and nail for something like that, I dont find it hard to believe that (back on topic) a game that compares real races/nationalities/etc with stats would get complaints. Are you seriously telling me you think NO-ONE would get offended when they see the swimming stat for black people is low compared to others?
 

CaptainKarma

New member
Dec 16, 2011
172
0
0
Auron225 said:
Fair enough, I'll drop the Black sheep and Unreliable workers ones. But no, I dont think Ikea are proudly exclaiming how men should have the right to dominate women, by having cartoon men assembling cartoon furniture. The person assembling it has to be SOME gender, unless its an alien building cabinets. Im sure if you were to ask Ikea staff, they would tell you that of course women can assemble the furniture too. There are so many things in the world that deserve attention a hell of a lot more than this.
No, they aren't shouting it from the rooftops. But it's still an implication of only showing men putting up cabinets. In the big scheme of things, and especially compared to the shocking sexism in most other advertisng, it's utterly trivial. But it's still a nice gesture to change it.

This one wasn't made up though, it really happened. If the friggin president will fight tooth and nail for something like that, I dont find it hard to believe that (back on topic) a game that compares real races/nationalities/etc with stats would get complaints. Are you seriously telling me you think NO-ONE would get offended when they see the swimming stat for black people is low compared to others?
Where did I say people wouldn't get offended? Of course they'd get offended, and rightly so.
 

Stikibunn

New member
Apr 27, 2009
104
0
0
lisadagz said:
Stikibunn said:
OT: How about gender bonuses or stat differences? Arcanum used to give women a +1 Constitution (as women have a higher pain threshold to survive the pain of childbirth) a +1 Beauty bonus (because everyone knows a lady is always prettier then a man) but a -2 strength bonus (because... well ladies are weak)
How would ya'll feel about THAT?
However Arcanum was set in Victorian times. The "tomboy" option gave you a -1 reaction from npc's (the same as you would wearing armor instead of a dress) I had a character build with that background and she wore armor and had a magical alignment of only +1 and she got attacked by a lotta Tarantians