This I heard a teacher say: swearing has its place, for instance, when you get up in the middle of the night and walking barefoot in the dark you hit your little toe on the door frame.
Poll: What is so bad about swearing?
- Thread starter Kirex
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Words are only "bad" as long as society sees them like that. If everyone started swearing today with no inhibitions they would stop being rude.
Well, in several languages, like Norwegian and French (i think), swears are more based around religion than on sexuality. Here in Norway, for example, the most normal swearword is "faen", which is basically a watered down word meaning "devil". Another is Jøsses, or jøss, which isn't very serious (often not considered a swear at all) but some of the more religious people take offence of it, as it is a very watered down version of "Jesus".Woodsey said:
The way you speak reveals something about you. Swearing is a part of that. However, placing magical value on words is pretty silly. I was recently at a dinner party with some super lib actor friends. Someone used the word, "****". I laughed. The super lib actor friends asked that she not use that word in their apartment.
My point is I don't think words should hold magical value. It's just a pronounced sound, not a physical act. Swearing can be all sorts of things. But placing a special, magical value on it (ie that word is "evil") is silly.
My point is I don't think words should hold magical value. It's just a pronounced sound, not a physical act. Swearing can be all sorts of things. But placing a special, magical value on it (ie that word is "evil") is silly.
Funny story ...
.. I'm Aussie, but have spent a good 50% or so of my life overseas. As a teenager I went to school in London, at a prestigious private (they say public there ... not sure why ...) school in Croydon. ANnnnyway, I promptly developed a reputation for having quite a foul mouth. The thing was, it was all terms I would not have considered particularly offensive.
Once, my Form 4 student teacher in mathematics (Miss .... Proust? Shit it's been too long) joyously stated "Ok class, it's homework time!" to which I (rightly so!) responded with a despondent "Aww bugger!". She looked down at me as if I'd just vomited drunkenly on her baby ... I looked back, slightly nervous. What? Did I have an erection? Was there spinach stuck in my teeth?
"WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY?!"
"..... bugger."
Bang. 4 hour weekend detention. WTF?! Looking back it was probably that a kid had looked her straight back in the face and said exactly the same thing he'd just said ... but at the time it didn't mean shit to me. Hell, 'bugger' is in frickin' Disney movies (the expletive, not the activity ... I think anyway).
Later, another mathematics teacher got the shits with me for saying 'bastard'. Goddamnit, we were in a time-challenge examination in which we had to answer as many questions in as short a time as possible. My pen didn't work. Hence "You bastard pen!!" I felt was a perfectly justifiable expression. He didn't. He gave me an assignment - a 1500 word essay on why I shouldn't swear.
I changed it to a 1500 word essay on why, as an Australian, it was a cultural imperative to swear.
I later found out he'd photocopied my essay and put it up in the staff room for the amusement of the other Brit teachers.
Anyway, I remember when I left UK and returned to Australia - one of my teachers, shaking his head slowly, said "Well .... his football skills have certainly improved, even if his language hasn't."
Fast forward to now - I swear like a sailor in English and Japanese, but - like some kind of perverted mafia character - people don't seem to mind. Or at least, I'm a forceful enough personality that they don't speak against me.
.. I'm Aussie, but have spent a good 50% or so of my life overseas. As a teenager I went to school in London, at a prestigious private (they say public there ... not sure why ...) school in Croydon. ANnnnyway, I promptly developed a reputation for having quite a foul mouth. The thing was, it was all terms I would not have considered particularly offensive.
Once, my Form 4 student teacher in mathematics (Miss .... Proust? Shit it's been too long) joyously stated "Ok class, it's homework time!" to which I (rightly so!) responded with a despondent "Aww bugger!". She looked down at me as if I'd just vomited drunkenly on her baby ... I looked back, slightly nervous. What? Did I have an erection? Was there spinach stuck in my teeth?
"WHAT DID YOU JUST SAY?!"
"..... bugger."
Bang. 4 hour weekend detention. WTF?! Looking back it was probably that a kid had looked her straight back in the face and said exactly the same thing he'd just said ... but at the time it didn't mean shit to me. Hell, 'bugger' is in frickin' Disney movies (the expletive, not the activity ... I think anyway).
Later, another mathematics teacher got the shits with me for saying 'bastard'. Goddamnit, we were in a time-challenge examination in which we had to answer as many questions in as short a time as possible. My pen didn't work. Hence "You bastard pen!!" I felt was a perfectly justifiable expression. He didn't. He gave me an assignment - a 1500 word essay on why I shouldn't swear.
I changed it to a 1500 word essay on why, as an Australian, it was a cultural imperative to swear.
I later found out he'd photocopied my essay and put it up in the staff room for the amusement of the other Brit teachers.
Anyway, I remember when I left UK and returned to Australia - one of my teachers, shaking his head slowly, said "Well .... his football skills have certainly improved, even if his language hasn't."
Fast forward to now - I swear like a sailor in English and Japanese, but - like some kind of perverted mafia character - people don't seem to mind. Or at least, I'm a forceful enough personality that they don't speak against me.
When used inappropriately in a song to make it sound tough it usually comes off as childish. Swearing for the sake of swearing is annoying. Swearing to try and enhance a lame joke is annoying. Many instances though having said that i dont find it offensive.
I don't think there's anything wrong with swearing. Some people do swear a bit too much, using certain expletives as punctuation and all that. Do I swear a lot? Hm, I don't know. I only swear when I'm angry or taking the piss. Actually, thinking about it, I don't swear when I'm angry, more when I'm mildly annoyed at something. I don't curse all that much when I'm angry.
Out of respect I don't swear at my mother, but I do swear in front of her (only when the situation demands it). She doesn't have a problem with that language, but there is only one word that she won't let us use when she's around. And that word is '****', I don't know what, she just doesn't like it, so out of respect I keep usage of that word to a minimum. Everything else is fine though.
OT: To be honest, all swearing is is using words that have had a taboo placed on them. Religion doesn't forbid swearing only taking the lord's name in vain. So, for me, that isn't an excuse.
Hearing children swear is weird to say the least. I try to avoid swearing when I am around children, but the occasional badword slips out. But, to be honest, they're going to pick it up somewhere. Most likely from their parents, but actually using the words will be encouraged by friends and that lovely thing called peer pressure.
Out of respect I don't swear at my mother, but I do swear in front of her (only when the situation demands it). She doesn't have a problem with that language, but there is only one word that she won't let us use when she's around. And that word is '****', I don't know what, she just doesn't like it, so out of respect I keep usage of that word to a minimum. Everything else is fine though.
OT: To be honest, all swearing is is using words that have had a taboo placed on them. Religion doesn't forbid swearing only taking the lord's name in vain. So, for me, that isn't an excuse.
Hearing children swear is weird to say the least. I try to avoid swearing when I am around children, but the occasional badword slips out. But, to be honest, they're going to pick it up somewhere. Most likely from their parents, but actually using the words will be encouraged by friends and that lovely thing called peer pressure.
Swearing can make you feel better in some way, so the odd 'fuck' or whatever when in a casual setting is no bad thing... of course, meeting the prime minister, I think that I'd have a hard time not swearing at him, but that was supposed to be an example of when I shouldnt swear... err... at the doctors? shouldn't really swear then I guess...
as for in front of kids: they're gonna hear it some day, so why teach them a reality that isn't true? why do parents use baby-talk like 'piggy-wig' when, if they use that in school, they'll get laughed at and then bollocked by a teacher for arsing around... it's like that fingerpaint thing from ZP: be honest with them, tell the kids about swearing, but how it's not appropriate at times
people swear, and that's who they are, so people will judge them accordingly, but it doesn't make them a bad person, it's just what they do.
Welsh comedian Mark Watson made the point on his old radio show, and I agree with him on this wholeheartedly, that use whatever word you want, but if the intention behind it is the same as it would be behind 'fuck', then it's just as rude.
as for in front of kids: they're gonna hear it some day, so why teach them a reality that isn't true? why do parents use baby-talk like 'piggy-wig' when, if they use that in school, they'll get laughed at and then bollocked by a teacher for arsing around... it's like that fingerpaint thing from ZP: be honest with them, tell the kids about swearing, but how it's not appropriate at times
people swear, and that's who they are, so people will judge them accordingly, but it doesn't make them a bad person, it's just what they do.
Welsh comedian Mark Watson made the point on his old radio show, and I agree with him on this wholeheartedly, that use whatever word you want, but if the intention behind it is the same as it would be behind 'fuck', then it's just as rude.
OK everyone claiming that swears are "just words" stop it, if swear words dont mean any more then other words, if they stop carrying all that extra .... Social context? weight? psychological baggage? i dont know what you call it but if swear words lose what ever it is that makes them special then what will i shout when i trip over, or how will i let my apprentice know they have truly screwed up...
I get the frustration though, you always run into people who are offended simply at the use of swear words. Theres a time and a place for it, talking to my superiors, or customers or dealing with suppliers i try and keep my language formal and respectful. But if i'm swearing for a good reason and someone gets upset with me or using fuck or shit i often end up in a very colourful rant about how effectivly and even creativly I am bending the english language to my will.
I get the frustration though, you always run into people who are offended simply at the use of swear words. Theres a time and a place for it, talking to my superiors, or customers or dealing with suppliers i try and keep my language formal and respectful. But if i'm swearing for a good reason and someone gets upset with me or using fuck or shit i often end up in a very colourful rant about how effectivly and even creativly I am bending the english language to my will.
Ahh, I definitely agree with you here actually. I mean, sometimes it just "slips out" if you, say for example, stub your toe or you're aggravated in some way as it has evoked some form of emotion from you and the cuss word itself seems to let off some steam, so to speak.Kirex said:
Admittedly, I actually swear like a sailor, especially when on the game and being N.Irish and all, haha. I want to cut down a quare bit, mind you. I mean, it doesn't particularly show anything positive about one's vocabulary. However, I honestly can't stand it whenever people use it so excessively for no good reason at all. To be honest, the general vibe emenating from the person doing it isn't great and I just get the impression their intelligence matches that of a preteen who thinks swearing is absolutely hilarious.
EDIT:
Actually, Steppy has a good point. Ahh, Steppy.Midgeamoo said:
x
I really don't like swearing, but I don't really know why. Partly I do agree with 'swearing betrays a limited vocabulary' because I don't know anyone apart from my dad who swears and has a wide vocabulary. I was on a creative writing course at university and it became very clear very quickly that people who swore, both in their work and speech, were the ones who wrote very simplistically.
Similarly I don't generally believe in swearing in order to make a point, unless that point is humourous. If you are so limited that you can't make an argument without swearing, why should I pay it any attention?
And I don't hold to the statement 'they just words', because from that standpoint you must then argue that everything is just words, in which case language has no meaning. ****** is 'just a word' but I'd like to see someone say it in the middle of Harlem and see if they last long enough to explain that it shouldn't mean anything. On a less inflammatory note 'the' is just a word, but you have to ascribe meaning to it or else no one will understand you.
All words mean something, and using words without meaning, or without understanding, is just ignorance.
Similarly I don't generally believe in swearing in order to make a point, unless that point is humourous. If you are so limited that you can't make an argument without swearing, why should I pay it any attention?
And I don't hold to the statement 'they just words', because from that standpoint you must then argue that everything is just words, in which case language has no meaning. ****** is 'just a word' but I'd like to see someone say it in the middle of Harlem and see if they last long enough to explain that it shouldn't mean anything. On a less inflammatory note 'the' is just a word, but you have to ascribe meaning to it or else no one will understand you.
All words mean something, and using words without meaning, or without understanding, is just ignorance.
Swearing is a tool, used correctly it can be effective, used badly it can make you look like an idiot. Used all the time, it makes you look like a loony, sitting on a bench in the park talking to his favourite hammer. (seriously, if you see him, call the police.)
I watched 'Talking Funny' recently, an hour long talk between Jerry Seinfeld, Ricky Gervais, Chris Rock and Louis CK. Swearing came up there, they seemed to pretty much agree that it IS big, it is clever, and it is sometimes necessary, having tried material with and without the word.
It can tell you about a character and how they're feeling very quickly. Especially if they're not one who swears. Hell I know when I'd pushed my mother to her very limits the one time I made her say shit. I heard that and knew I'd crossed a line that time.
However, it needs to be controlled or lose its power. When you're on a bus and you hear a 5 year old yelling 'fuck off mum' it's kind of saddening, especially when it's countered by an angry, 'shut it you little shit!'
I watched 'Talking Funny' recently, an hour long talk between Jerry Seinfeld, Ricky Gervais, Chris Rock and Louis CK. Swearing came up there, they seemed to pretty much agree that it IS big, it is clever, and it is sometimes necessary, having tried material with and without the word.
It can tell you about a character and how they're feeling very quickly. Especially if they're not one who swears. Hell I know when I'd pushed my mother to her very limits the one time I made her say shit. I heard that and knew I'd crossed a line that time.
However, it needs to be controlled or lose its power. When you're on a bus and you hear a 5 year old yelling 'fuck off mum' it's kind of saddening, especially when it's countered by an angry, 'shut it you little shit!'