"pretty much the entire country west of Chicago are a bunch of morons"Bara_no_Hime said:
I think that's what threw me.
Poll: What is wrong with America?
- Thread starter Laurie Barnes
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I think that's what threw me.
Do people truly believe that an issue with unions is equal to the oppression that North Koreans suffer, or the huge events occuring in Libya? Honestly while I'm sure it is an important issue for Americans people could do with a degree of perspective. All countries have problems, the US actually has relatively minor ones compared to most others (Take a gander at Africa for actual problems)
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I saw the title and the first thought in my head was troll.
Not everyone in the US is a Republican. And it's not one of those things where 90% are Republican and the rest aren't. It's sort of half and half. Not everyone in the US is on the governors side. But all everyone outside the US focuses on the Republicans. W
hy? Because it is different. Liberals are closer to your guys' own parties, so you all somehow ignore their existance. I am a liberal, and my existance is repeditively denied by everyone I've ever met on forums who wasn't from the US.
Republicans are currently on a "cut spending/programs we hate" high. They've always wanted to get rid of public education to some degree. Wisconsin is in some very serious economic trouble beside this upset. Combine all these peices and that is why they are trying to get rid of union barganing rights.
There are more than two types of people in this country. Not everyone strictly conforms to one side or the other. And just because we vote for someone doesn't mean they will do everything we want them to do. We can only vote for those who we think will do what we want.
Fox news. Not everyone in this country worships it. You can see that in this forum alone.
There are more to people than politics. Don't judge a country because some members you disagree with politically.
I disagree with the vast majority of things Republicans do, and what they are doing now makes me mad. I'm not the only one who thinks like this. Don't put me in the same box as Republicans. Thank you.
Not everyone in the US is a Republican. And it's not one of those things where 90% are Republican and the rest aren't. It's sort of half and half. Not everyone in the US is on the governors side. But all everyone outside the US focuses on the Republicans. W
hy? Because it is different. Liberals are closer to your guys' own parties, so you all somehow ignore their existance. I am a liberal, and my existance is repeditively denied by everyone I've ever met on forums who wasn't from the US.
Republicans are currently on a "cut spending/programs we hate" high. They've always wanted to get rid of public education to some degree. Wisconsin is in some very serious economic trouble beside this upset. Combine all these peices and that is why they are trying to get rid of union barganing rights.
There are more than two types of people in this country. Not everyone strictly conforms to one side or the other. And just because we vote for someone doesn't mean they will do everything we want them to do. We can only vote for those who we think will do what we want.
Fox news. Not everyone in this country worships it. You can see that in this forum alone.
There are more to people than politics. Don't judge a country because some members you disagree with politically.
I disagree with the vast majority of things Republicans do, and what they are doing now makes me mad. I'm not the only one who thinks like this. Don't put me in the same box as Republicans. Thank you.
That seems a bit off, I just looked it up and socialism wasn't even conceived until 1834 and wasn't adopted by any countries until 1917, how can the people that were fighting against public education call something socialism when they don't even know what it is, never mind there ever having been a problem from in it (yes socialism was just getting started so it was relevant, but its a completely different context after solivet russia, people where still figuring out socialism so it was much less of a scare tactic). Then you get to the last three points and you kind off miss the point. The economic issue is that conservatives feel that every one has earned the money they have and shouldn't have to be penalized for being successful. The abortion comes from a different definition on life, not "traditional values". And war is a complicated issue that varies from war to war, winning your independence took a war so really the way you put it your first statement contradicts your last. Just so you know I am liberal on most issues, but you have to understand the opinions of your opposition, other wise your going to have a hard time arguing against them.THAC0 said:
As for the original topic, I think teachers make a decent salary, certainly not great though and public education is far from the first thing you need to cut back on, so really its a bad decision on the governors part.
socialism, and the fear of it by the upper classes, came to America in the 1850's or so and i think was brought mostly by German immigrants.drisky said:
that is the conservative talking point to be sure, but the reality is that the policies they support are by design, merely wealth distribution to the upper classes. Some people do actually believe the myth of "job creators" but the rest understand exactly what they are doing.drisky said:
their definition though, is based on interpretations of the Bible. Hard to get more traditional than that.drisky said:
Well, they "tend" to be against war. Your right, that does vary a lot from war to war. I, personally am against any and all aggressive war against countries that didn't attack us. That means that their has yet to be a war in my life that i supported. I would have no problem with defending the country however.drisky said:
I would like to point out that the revolution was also motivated by the interests of some very wealthy people in the colonies and the average person most likely did not feel that oppressed by their tyrannical overlords. I included that on my list of "good" things just because i enjoy the irony of the same group that preaches nationalism, making up a very significant portion of the opposition to the revolution that founded the nation.
pleased to meet you.drisky said:
"damn it, do you know what's wrong with our country??"
..."they're all trying to kill us?"
"EXACTLY."
-John Malkovich in Red.
..."they're all trying to kill us?"
"EXACTLY."
-John Malkovich in Red.
Actually the problem here is that the principal or some other superior got abusive with their power in firing that teacher. That shit would never fly at my school because our principal is generally good at her job and pretty laid back when it comes to fun too. I really wish people could see some of the things my teachers do. They still get the job done though and it's not because they know their jobs are safe or that they'll get paid higher wages with the union as their shield, it's because they really care about educating these kids.solid_snake said:
That's what it all boils down to: respect for others and their education. Not how many vacation days you get. It's reflected in the way everyone in the community gets involved, from the PTA to board meetings to the news pointing out corruption, and it's especially important considering this is a relatively low-income urban area where many of the kids do fall through the cracks. The school district, while imperfect, has made amazing strides to turn that stuff around and as a result schools here are ranked as globally competitive.
Unfortunately, we often get overlooked during these discusions in Congress because we're not some big-name school district in New York or LA, which is a shame seeing as these places could learn from our example. It could also have to do with the way American schools are regulated: it's up to the individual states themselves to set their own standards, and then it goes down to locality and even the districts within that. So, it's easy to see why no one place in the States has the same attitude about education. Many people working at the schools I've attended can't even agree with the policies they make at district headquarters downtown, and so openly ignore them. Maybe dissent is one of the reasons we perform better.
But reform has to start somewhere, and that somewhere is in the home. Get to know the faculty, the administrators, and other parents. Work with them and form your own ideas. Most importantly, teach your child respect and the values of hard work, and you will see change.
That's what's right with America, at least.
Review of the Wisconsin budget plan for 2011
-Philip E. Morris (AKA SofaEater)
Salary and Taxes
The average salary before taxes for a teacher is $46,390, and starting salary of $25,222; and this is before the proposed 5.8% to 12.6% increase tax is $40,544 and $22,044 respectively BEFORE normal taxes. The average cost of LIVING of one person per month in Wisconsin is $487.35, factor in the dues to the unions (for strike pay, representation, legal, fair treatment and hiring, etc). Then factor in of $1,081.91(base payment) + 12.6% state tax and $4,681.25(base payment) + 25% federal tax. This means an actual income of $24,800.18 & $10,986.75. This is 53.46% & 43.56% of their original salary and 217.24% more than someone with the same salary in a different position. [My math may be incorrect]
{Scott Walker makes about $129,611 yearly excluding bonuses. (Via http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/29505169.html)}
Understanding the planned budget
The Budget takes money only from education section of the government not the legislative employees. These include (but are not limited to); the governor, council members, Congress and House representatives, and county executives. Now under Governor Walker's budget, unions would have to win yearly votes to continue representing the workers, and could no longer have dues deducted from workers' paychecks. This could effectively destroy the unions, because if there is one election that doesn't go in favor of the unions for teachers are abolished. And unions are a necessity, as they help protect the rights of the workers of that field in matters relating to pay, conditions, hours, etc. (Look at the time periods before unions and other countries that don't have unions). And, coincidently, a 7% increase in the 'Employment Relations Commission' whose propose is to "avoid the costly consequences of strikes, lockouts and other interruptions of service and production".
The long term consequences
The damage to the education system will be also immediate if this budget is accepted. Teachers will leave their jobs creating a void in a job field that is already in demand. This will lead to under qualified and less skilled teachers being hired. And because the starting salary is so low less money will be given to the state via taxes. This defeats the entire propose and reasoning behind Governor Scott Walker's plan for a better state economy.
________________________________________________________________________________
The majority of the information has been obtained by the actual budget itself and nationally accredited news sources, along with public government documents.
"The Governor recommends increasing state employee contributions towards pension and health insurance costs. Employees will generally pay 50 percent of the total required retirement contribution, which for calendar year 2011 equals 5.8 percent of salary. The Governor further recommends increasing employee contributions for health insurance from approximately 6 percent of the premium to 12.6 percent of the premium. These modifications are necessary to bring state employee compensation in line with private sector employment and reduce compensation costs." - The proposed budget (http://www.doa.state.wi.us/debf/execbudget.asp)
-Philip E. Morris (AKA SofaEater)
Salary and Taxes
The average salary before taxes for a teacher is $46,390, and starting salary of $25,222; and this is before the proposed 5.8% to 12.6% increase tax is $40,544 and $22,044 respectively BEFORE normal taxes. The average cost of LIVING of one person per month in Wisconsin is $487.35, factor in the dues to the unions (for strike pay, representation, legal, fair treatment and hiring, etc). Then factor in of $1,081.91(base payment) + 12.6% state tax and $4,681.25(base payment) + 25% federal tax. This means an actual income of $24,800.18 & $10,986.75. This is 53.46% & 43.56% of their original salary and 217.24% more than someone with the same salary in a different position. [My math may be incorrect]
{Scott Walker makes about $129,611 yearly excluding bonuses. (Via http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/29505169.html)}
Understanding the planned budget
The Budget takes money only from education section of the government not the legislative employees. These include (but are not limited to); the governor, council members, Congress and House representatives, and county executives. Now under Governor Walker's budget, unions would have to win yearly votes to continue representing the workers, and could no longer have dues deducted from workers' paychecks. This could effectively destroy the unions, because if there is one election that doesn't go in favor of the unions for teachers are abolished. And unions are a necessity, as they help protect the rights of the workers of that field in matters relating to pay, conditions, hours, etc. (Look at the time periods before unions and other countries that don't have unions). And, coincidently, a 7% increase in the 'Employment Relations Commission' whose propose is to "avoid the costly consequences of strikes, lockouts and other interruptions of service and production".
The long term consequences
The damage to the education system will be also immediate if this budget is accepted. Teachers will leave their jobs creating a void in a job field that is already in demand. This will lead to under qualified and less skilled teachers being hired. And because the starting salary is so low less money will be given to the state via taxes. This defeats the entire propose and reasoning behind Governor Scott Walker's plan for a better state economy.
________________________________________________________________________________
The majority of the information has been obtained by the actual budget itself and nationally accredited news sources, along with public government documents.
"The Governor recommends increasing state employee contributions towards pension and health insurance costs. Employees will generally pay 50 percent of the total required retirement contribution, which for calendar year 2011 equals 5.8 percent of salary. The Governor further recommends increasing employee contributions for health insurance from approximately 6 percent of the premium to 12.6 percent of the premium. These modifications are necessary to bring state employee compensation in line with private sector employment and reduce compensation costs." - The proposed budget (http://www.doa.state.wi.us/debf/execbudget.asp)
