Poll: What percentage of people are LGBT?

[Vault101]

[The point is anything that can be spun to an advantage or positive attention will be used..

which means...

oh yeah

nothing....its as empty and full of air as your wall of texts...


[quote/]Case in point let's say you have a girl who did a three way with her boyfriend and another girl both of them know, and then she had fun so when her boyfriend wasn't around she slept with this other girl a couple of times because "it's okay, my boyfriend already knows were intimate". She puts herself down as straight and says "well, I'm not a lez, I just got horny and it was better than just using a vibrator on my own, and I didn't want to cheat". Does she count as straight just because she identifies that way? [/quote]
who uses what label is generally considered up to the individual since you can't "police" that kind of thing, the contention (among bi women/lesbians in this case) is how it might contribute to the idea that f/f sexuality is frivolous/"not real"/a phase/incomplete without a male participant. Experimenting is fine but it comes with its own set of issues

oh and

[quote/]not as you want[/quote]
I might disagree with how someone labels themselves but labels are an inherently personal thing and not my place to judge

[quote/] As far as I'm concerned nothing prevents two adults from getting married, if two guys or girls want to exchange vows and rings, and the community accepts them as exclusive to each other, it's all good, and that's all that's needed[/quote]
no its not because there are other legal differences

[quote/]Homosexuals are not going to have kids, no matter how much they might want to[/quote]
BUT THEY DO eather by adoption/IVF/sperm/egg donors

[quote/]When homosexuals adopt/take foster kids/whatever such arrangements usually come with money to help cover the expenses, indeed one of the most abused things out there is people adopting a bunch of kids, pocketing the money, and keeping them in squalid conditions.[/quote]
are you fucking kidding me?

Christ dude just because some (unproven number) of people may or may not "do a thing" doesn't make it a valid argument against a thing, some people crash cars so should people not be able to drive? and that's not even getting intot he offensive implications there

same thing with your first point [I/]well see some people[/I] <-no...that doesn't MEAN anything, that's not even anecdotal evidence that's a narrative you've created


[quote/]This sounds "insane" until you consider how the laws snowball, and how decades ago nobody would have considered gay marriage likely to be an issue.[/quote]
so now youre pulling a slippery slope "next people will be marry their dogs"? oh lordy....


[quote/]Right now it seems to mostly be being fought about because it annoys straights and conservatives, and you know... who doesn't like tax breaks?[/quote]
correction: it annoys bigots and conservatives and you are certainly not in a position to understand gays who want to get married

[quote/]That said we're likely to agree to disagree yet again. You won't see the connections I do, and that's fine. I tend to think in terms of the big picture and a few moves ahead a lot of the time.[/quote]
you're already testing my time and patience...do not condescend me

 

[poundingmetal74]

It has little to do with the "procedure," transfolk are treated worse than gays. Gender identity is still grounds of discrimination in a lot of places where even sexual orientation is considered a protected class.

You'll see numbers for both increase with acceptance, though it's very likely trans identities will never amount to even as much as 1% of the population. It's an extreme minority, but we're talking an issue of self-reporting within an otherwise invisible and hated group of people.

That's fair enough and true. I do think scientific advancement will have some factor in the number rising - if it does - if for no other reason than it makes it easier to go through with. But yes, the growth of acceptance will most certainly be the bigger reason of the two for an increase in the number of reported number of transfolk.

And to your last point: absolutely, transfolk are incredibly maligned, even within the LGBT community. As much as the LGBT community likes to think itself a bastion of acceptance - and it can be - like any group, it's hardly perfect and can always stand to improve.

Just as an aside, there was a fantastic Norweigan documentary series from a few years back called Brainwash which had an episode on gay/straight, and another on gender, which dealt with some trans issues. Highly recommended viewing if you're interested in this subject.

 

[Elfgore]

I'm straight, but have thought about having sexual relations/relationships with men. So maybe Bi? Honestly, I don't know. I know I like women, but not sure about the men part. Maybe as time goes on I might figure it out. Either way, I'm in no rush.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=homoromantic

Geez... didn't have to do the whole google bit. But I don't think that's what I am. I'm not just sexually attracted to women, I'm also romantically attracted. Which seems to be not what a Homoromantic is. And I said thought there is a difference between acting and thinking.

 

[Elfgore]

snip

Spoiler: Adequate representation of what happened to my brain as I read that.

So many terms, my mind just can't handle it! I rather stay away from all of complicated terms for now and let myself mature and grow a little more. I then may decide what I actually am all terms allowed. But seriously thanks. And I'm sorry about the google thing. People tend to use that to be condescending towards someone.

 

[geK0]

Recently came out to my close friends as bisexual, so yea I guess so. My search history sort of speaks for itself.

>.....>

<.....<

I've always had a big thing for tomboys and some FtMs, but god damn, it's so much easier to say "bi" instead of getting into the pedantic little nitty gritty labels.

I have a number of LGBT friends, so I'm really not sure what took me so long to come out about it.

I'd say people where I'm from are generally accepting of LGBT, but there are plenty of social circles who don't approve.

 

[Musette]

Another asexual here. If you're explicitly including asexuals in this, then I suppose I count as LGBT, if barely so. (Unless my strong desire to do drag and wear men's clothing even when I'm not in drag counts as gender questioning, but I can't say I've ever connected with an LGBT group over that or my sexuality.) I can't say that I can relate to a lot of LGBT struggles though because of the stealthiness of my orientation. I don't even have to pretend to be anything I'm not and people just think I'm straight for some reason with no questions asked!

About how many of your friends and family do you know to be LGBT?
I don't have a lot of very close LGBT friends, but I have a fair amount of colleagues and acquaintances who are. (Actually, I'm a percussion student, and the past three winners of my university's annual concerto competition were all LGBT percussionists if you count me. I'm the only one left though, and nobody in my percussion studio ever learned of my orientation anyways. The other two winners were both gay men, and superb marimbists at that.)

As far as family goes, my twin is bisexual, but I don't know of anyone beyond that. My mom's side of the family is located in a pretty socially backwards place, so none of them would admit it even if they were LGBT, and if any of my dad's side is, then they're certainly deep in the closet (which is totally unnecessary because my grandparents are amazingly supportive of the LGBT movement.)

How tolerant are people of LGBT people where you're from?
My home town seemed okay with it more or less since I lived in a fairly liberal area, but I can't say I experienced much hostility firsthand. I had someone accuse me of being a lesbian when I was 11, but I didn't know that was supposed to be an insult, and my lack of a reaction (and the fact that the kid didn't even know my name) meant that I didn't have to worry about it. Other than that, some people were more accepting than others, and I generally stuck with the people who were more accepting (though I assumed I was straight by default up until my 2nd year of college, so I wasn't seeking support). One of my sister's friends turned out to be homophobic, and she basically cut all ties with the guy when he tried to harass one of our gay friends, but other than that, I can at least say that my peers were very tolerant/accepting.

College, it's hard to say because there's such a weird blend of conservative/liberal where I'm at, so I guess there's a bit of both? The university has two different LGBT groups (and though they're both accepting of asexuality, there certainly isn't much in terms of dialogue in that regard), but there's also a lot of the frat/sorority culture that's not always associated with tolerance, though some are better than others in that regard. Actually, I feel more singled out for being non-religious, as people are very aggressive about that over here and have made statements such as "Oh, you must be confused, just read the bible and everything will be clear" and "technically, you're going to hell" back when I was naive enough to state my agnosticism when they prodded into my religious views.

Happy Asexual Awareness Week. Remember people are more aware of asexuals this week, so don't go robbing any banks or stealing kittens in the night, don't partake in the usual hobbies.

bad joke I know

Damn, there goes my grand Halloween Kitten Heist! Awareness sucks! What do I do now? D:

 

[Vault101]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=homoromantic

oh yeah I've heard this one before...and it makes a lot of sense for me in particular

but its also frustrating because I wonder if my really into guys at all or if its just me going through an angry man-hating feminist phase

 

[Jenvas1306]

Well I cant deny that I belong to LGBT, even its just the T, but I try to only let it influence my life where its inevitable.
My family is pretty accepting of it even with them its sometimes a bit weird as they know me for so long. With my parents, especially my mother its better as they actually see me often and got used to it.
My friends are very accepting and most people around here dont get bothered by things that dont affect them and I live in a small german city.

 

[chozo_hybrid]

I've always found it interesting that lesbian and Gay have their own letters, when lesbians are gay. Could anyone tell me why this is, I'm curious

for some reason gay seems to be the "guy" version whereas lesbian is very specific....why? *shrug* I don't know, some women prefer gay or even queer for whatever reason

I've always found it interesting that lesbian and Gay have their own letters, when lesbians are gay. Could anyone tell me why this is, I'm curious

While I don't really know all that much, I suspect that its due to the general differences in societal attitudes towards homosexuality between the genders and how rights activism for homosexual men and homosexual women require different things due to these differences in perception.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to me You raise a good point Mars, I think that makes a lot of sense.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

I didn't know about the terms MOGAI or GSM but now that I know them, I know what I'll be using from now on!

---

I would identify as MOGAI considering that even within the community, there are a number of people would would marginalize asexuality. There are men and women who I love but it's a familiar kind of love. I see a lot of my friends as extensions of my family and don't feel any sexual desires. It's to the point where the sights, and smells, of sexual organs repulse me. I didn't know asexuality was a thing before and merely thought there was just something wrong with me...then I thought I was trying sex with the wrong people...then I found out about being an Ace and it just made sense to me.

All the acronyms still have there issues though. Some people don't like using MOGAI because of the M among other things, they don't sit well with the term "marginalized".

GSM also has issues with the "M" for a similar reason and this acronym also excludes intersex which is not an orientation or an identity, but should be included none the less.

Which one you use is still a matter of preference, but none of them are perfect.

---
Thank you for sharing your story, I'm glad you've found something that works for you, although it's sad how many times I've heard the phrase "I felt like there was something wrong with me."

Damn, there goes my grand Halloween Kitten Heist! Awareness sucks! What do I do now? D:

Tsk tsk! You should have planned ahead. I stole all my kittens last week and replaced them with stuffed versions, so this week it would only be discovered they'd been stolen.

but its also frustrating because I wonder if my really into guys at all or if its just me going through an angry man-hating feminist phase

For what it's worth, IMO those terms shouldn't be used as a be all end all, or a box you need to fit yourself into, rather a way to describe yourself as you currently feel at this point in your life. If you discover it's different later on, just change the term. Sexuality is a complicated subject, so having those words offers a clearer picture than saying "I'm straight" or "I'm gay"

For example, if you are straight but biromantic, that means you prefer sleeping with the opposite sex, but would be open to cuddling, kissing, ext of both sexes

If you are straight but demi-biromantic, that means you prefer sleeping with the opposite sex, but would be open to cuddling, kissing, ext of both sexes ONLY IF that person means a lot to you (aka you'd be open to kissing your best friend even if your best friend just happens to be not of your sexual preference).

Aromantic, which means "no romance" is particularly useful for any orientation.
For anyone who is not asexual, it means "Lets skip this romance stuff and get right to the sex."

Of course don't feel obligated to use terms if you don't feel comfortable using them, or don't see a reason why they would be useful to you in particular.

 

[Therumancer]

[The point is anything that can be spun to an advantage or positive attention will be used..

which means...

oh yeah

nothing....its as empty and full of air as your wall of texts...


[quote/]Case in point let's say you have a girl who did a three way with her boyfriend and another girl both of them know, and then she had fun so when her boyfriend wasn't around she slept with this other girl a couple of times because "it's okay, my boyfriend already knows were intimate". She puts herself down as straight and says "well, I'm not a lez, I just got horny and it was better than just using a vibrator on my own, and I didn't want to cheat". Does she count as straight just because she identifies that way?

who uses what label is generally considered up to the individual since you can't "police" that kind of thing, the contention (among bi women/lesbians in this case) is how it might contribute to the idea that f/f sexuality is frivolous/"not real"/a phase/incomplete without a male participant. Experimenting is fine but it comes with its own set of issues

oh and

[quote/]not as you want[/quote]
I might disagree with how someone labels themselves but labels are an inherently personal thing and not my place to judge

[quote/] As far as I'm concerned nothing prevents two adults from getting married, if two guys or girls want to exchange vows and rings, and the community accepts them as exclusive to each other, it's all good, and that's all that's needed[/quote]
no its not because there are other legal differences

[quote/]Homosexuals are not going to have kids, no matter how much they might want to[/quote]
BUT THEY DO eather by adoption/IVF/sperm/egg donors

[quote/]When homosexuals adopt/take foster kids/whatever such arrangements usually come with money to help cover the expenses, indeed one of the most abused things out there is people adopting a bunch of kids, pocketing the money, and keeping them in squalid conditions.[/quote]
are you fucking kidding me?

Christ dude just because some (unproven number) of people may or may not "do a thing" doesn't make it a valid argument against a thing, some people crash cars so should people not be able to drive? and that's not even getting intot he offensive implications there

same thing with your first point [I/]well see some people[/I] <-no...that doesn't MEAN anything, that's not even anecdotal evidence that's a narrative you've created


[quote/]This sounds "insane" until you consider how the laws snowball, and how decades ago nobody would have considered gay marriage likely to be an issue.[/quote]
so now youre pulling a slippery slope "next people will be marry their dogs"? oh lordy....


[quote/]Right now it seems to mostly be being fought about because it annoys straights and conservatives, and you know... who doesn't like tax breaks?[/quote]
correction: it annoys bigots and conservatives and you are certainly not in a position to understand gays who want to get married

[quote/]That said we're likely to agree to disagree yet again. You won't see the connections I do, and that's fine. I tend to think in terms of the big picture and a few moves ahead a lot of the time.[/quote]
you're already testing my time and patience...do not condescend me[/quote]

Excuse me? You talk about condescending posts after this pair of responses? "Hey let's ignore and dismiss every point made, imply bigotry and then talk about how rude your being". Sorry that doesn't quite work. Now granted, you can disagree with me as is your usual right (as I pointed out) but you should leave it as "good points Therumancer, but I still don't disagree" and move on.

... and let's be honest as long as you use terms like "bigot" to describe people who disagree with you on social issues your not likely to make much progress, and things are just going to get worse on these issues. All it really shows is unquestioning fanaticism on your side when you start claiming "no one else is qualified to understand or make judgements here".

Next time if you want to discuss things remain polite as I do, otherwise I suggest you don't reply at all.

Of course at the same time my hands have been tied in terms of fully discussing subjects like this by Escapist administration so (shrugs) I suppose it doesn't matter.

 

[Something Amyss]

For what it's worth, IMO those terms shouldn't be used as a be all end all, or a box you need to fit yourself into, rather a way to describe yourself as you currently feel at this point in your life. If you discover it's different later on, just change the term. Sexuality is a complicated subject, so having those words offers a clearer picture than saying "I'm straight" or "I'm gay"

I think a lot of the problem simply comes down to fear of how other people will react. Not only can people be hostile to anyone who's not deemed "normal," people tend to use folks who redefine themselves as proof that non-straight orientations are a phase or lifestyle choice.

I mean, you're right. These shouldn't be the end-all. But there's so much of a stigma, it's not surprising people stress about getting it "right."

 

[Something Amyss]

When homosexuals adopt/take foster kids/whatever such arrangements usually come with money to help cover the expenses, indeed one of the most abused things out there is people adopting a bunch of kids, pocketing the money, and keeping them in squalid conditions.

A statement I'm sure you can back up with hard evidence.

 

[Therumancer]

When homosexuals adopt/take foster kids/whatever such arrangements usually come with money to help cover the expenses, indeed one of the most abused things out there is people adopting a bunch of kids, pocketing the money, and keeping them in squalid conditions.

A statement I'm sure you can back up with hard evidence.

A statement which falls under common knowledge so I don't have to. Indeed if you say type in a search for "Foster Child Abuse" and then say refine the option down to "Foster Child Abuse Stories" you'll get scads of hits. Then all you need to do is start reading them and you'll notice mention of foster care payments in many of them not being used for care of the children, or simply made obvious by the description. Ta Daaa... all the information you'd ever need.

Hence why I don't do this kind of research for people. Especially seeing as child abuse cases are sensational so the news tends to cover them, televised, radio, etc... although mostly focusing on the most sensational cases as opposed to the more general range of scumbags. Meaning you'd have to pretty much live in media isolation to not know these things, which I doubt of people on an internet forum. Thus I doubly don't do people's research because I figure anyone trying imply such a thing isn't true and/or requires proof at this point is speaking as part of some political and/or social philosophy and won't pay attention to anything I link to begin with, and probably already knows about this stuff but for whatever reason is choosing to forget about it.

That and I was in residential facilities as a kid for quite a long part of my childhood. I've met the results of such abuse who became wards of the state or were broken by one foster family and institutionalized (at least temporarily) by another. Nasty crap involving extreme child abuse, kids being locked in driers, and things like that. I had to do group therapy sessions and such where we all "shared". I've talked about it before. A lot of the things I say and think (socially, politically, etc...) come from real world, first hand, experience... unlike a lot of people who largely seem to get their opinions from politicians and political philsophers and try and apply those things to a real world they have little experience with, largely being isolated from it as tends to happen with those who spend vast amounts of time on the computer, playing video games, and similar things. I've generally found the more experienced you happen to be seeing what happens behind the curtain, the more you tend to agree with my perspective on things.

 

[username sucks]

I really was hoping that this thread wouldn't devolve into an argument. *sigh* Okay...

Excuse me? You talk about condescending posts after this pair of responses? "Hey let's ignore and dismiss every point made, imply bigotry and then talk about how rude your being". Sorry that doesn't quite work. Now granted, you can disagree with me as is your usual right (as I pointed out) but you should leave it as "good points Therumancer, but I still don't disagree" and move on.

You're asking her to say that you have good points but you still don't disagree, even though you have yet to do the same thing. I'm sorry, but it has to work both ways.

... and let's be honest as long as you use terms like "bigot" to describe people who disagree with you on social issues your not likely to make much progress, and things are just going to get worse on these issues. All it really shows is unquestioning fanaticism on your side when you start claiming "no one else is qualified to understand or make judgements here".

Next time if you want to discuss things remain polite as I do, otherwise I suggest you don't reply at all.

She also never called a bigot nor did she claim to be the only one qualified to make judgement. She was pointing out what she thought were holes in your logic, which is not a personal attack, not being rude, but rather one of the core parts of a good discussion. Could she have been more polite? Probably. Both of you could have been more polite, and it would have made this a good discussion rather than... this.

Of course at the same time my hands have been tied in terms of fully discussing subjects like this by Escapist administration so (shrugs) I suppose it doesn't matter.

The Escapist rules don't censor this kind of discussion. As long as you aren't using insults and aren't advocating/admitting to doing anything illegal in the US, you're pretty much free to discuss anything as you please.

 

[Therumancer]

I really was hoping that this thread wouldn't devolve into an argument. *sigh* Okay...

Excuse me? You talk about condescending posts after this pair of responses? "Hey let's ignore and dismiss every point made, imply bigotry and then talk about how rude your being". Sorry that doesn't quite work. Now granted, you can disagree with me as is your usual right (as I pointed out) but you should leave it as "good points Therumancer, but I still don't disagree" and move on.

You're asking her to say that you have good points but you still don't disagree, even though you have yet to do the same thing. I'm sorry, but it has to work both ways.

... and let's be honest as long as you use terms like "bigot" to describe people who disagree with you on social issues your not likely to make much progress, and things are just going to get worse on these issues. All it really shows is unquestioning fanaticism on your side when you start claiming "no one else is qualified to understand or make judgements here".

Next time if you want to discuss things remain polite as I do, otherwise I suggest you don't reply at all.

She also never called a bigot nor did she claim to be the only one qualified to make judgement. She was pointing out what she thought were holes in your logic, which is not a personal attack, not being rude, but rather one of the core parts of a good discussion. Could she have been more polite? Probably. Both of you could have been more polite, and it would have made this a good discussion rather than... this.

Of course at the same time my hands have been tied in terms of fully discussing subjects like this by Escapist administration so (shrugs) I suppose it doesn't matter.

The Escapist rules don't censor this kind of discussion. As long as you aren't using insults and aren't advocating/admitting to doing anything illegal in the US, you're pretty much free to discuss anything as you please.

Actually Vault101 was quite insulting in the way she wrote things.

Also you are incorrect, on Escapist policies, as I was double moderated (twice for one offense) for being anti-gay men and expressing beliefs that are not socially liberal. I attempted appeal on similar grounds to what you mention and fail. As a result I have to be very careful with what I say, since it's been made clear that social conservatives are not allowed to speak with complete freedom on these forums, or at least not any more. It has officially become a sort of liberal vacuum chamber. I can say certain things apparently, but only to an extent. In short it already happened, which is why I no longer defend The Escapist's discussion policies the way I used to, as you might notice.

Now if admin was to apologize and remove two marks from my forum meter (since I was nailed twice for what amounts to a single offense) we REALLY won't agree (or like each other very much in all likelihood) but I'd be able to again speak a lot more freely. This is actually not an evasion, if you read a lot of my back messages going back years you'll notice that despite this being a hostile forum to people who think what I do, I haven't been shy about getting into it with people. A point which also shows a change in moderator interpretation and enforcement, and causes me to agree with those who say the mods here have gotten out of control. That said it is a private forum and I discuss a wide array of things here and continue to post under the limitations knowing this. You need to understand though that your favored not just by the leanings of a lot of people who post here, but currently by the way policy is being enforced as well. By current Escapist policy it is pretty much forbidden to have a serious two way political discussion on a lot of issues, since especially with social issues any kind of opposition side could be seen as insulting or threatening to members of that group, thus moderation falls, censoring and holding back one side of major issues while allowing the others to speak freely. One might wonder why they even have forums for things like off topic discussion and religion and politics at this point, but when this point has been raised it's been met with silence. In short people with your general point of view do not just have the population advantage here, you have "won" to the extent of pretty much seeing the other side shut down simply due to the mods falling on anyone you or those you speak for claiming to be "offended or threatened" by the expression of the other side of issues no matter how politely presented.

As far as acknowledging other points goes, part of it is tonal, and the fact that we're discussing diametrically opposing political and social viewpoints. One side cannot acknowledge the other without conceding that it's wrong. My point was that Vault101 wasn't really doing much to actually refute points I was making, just as asking for proof about common knowledge stuff doesn't do anything but make you look foolish and show that you are either unprepared to have entered into the discussion, or have already decided to dismiss such things in favor of strictly following a political or social idealogy and it's proponents, so there is no real point anyway. Not to mention a lot of common knowledge stuff comes from looking at a body of information over a period of time, not so much from one particular source or article, which is in part why I oftentimes give search advice/key words to a starting point and leave people to do their own research. Either they will educate themselves on the topic, or they will not. The odd things about these discussions is that I'm already familiar with the side of people like Vault101 intimately as I used to be on their side years ago (I was young and liberal once despite my background and experiences), the same cannot be said in reverse. Not to mention that one thing I point out frequently is that I speak from first hand experience on a lot of subject, including gay rights, one thing you'll notice is nobody calls me a liar (which would mean we had nothing to discuss otherwise) nor does anyone else claim a similar background or to have other experiences. Probably because just about anyone who is actually qualified through experience to have an opinion on a subject like this already agrees with me but doesn't want to deal with the swarms here. Something reinforced by positive messages I've received both in private E-mail and through private messages on this site over the years.

Basically Vault101 is in a position where counter-statements can be made, but without any real experience or background, can't do anything but make much noise. I've been around the block with Vault101 a few times and the bottom line is I've given out plenty of information on where to do research and find proof of my statements over the years as well, and it so far hasn't happened (obviously) and will not happen because we're dealing with someone who really doesn't care about the other side and is mostly trying to engage in evasions, asking for evidence, proof, or refutation, knowing there is not one easy source, but also unwilling to educate them self on the subject. I suppose under ideal circumstances I could effectively teach a class and back everything up, by say 40+ hours of classroom time, assigned reading, etc. perhaps but that's not really effective on the internet. What's more it would lack practical experience, and of course information gained from things like Code Adam training which generally doesn't get disseminated to the general public, and also tends to require an existing background, and then gets rapidly reinforced through actual use. For example you or Vault101 would be VERY different people if it came to something like this if you say spend 10 years between the casinos where I worked and had to do frequent patrols and investigations of the arcades, and dealt with the children abandoned on the concourse while the parents go off to gamble and those that environment and those opportunities attract. It's why I talk about ivory tower philosophies. Even as someone who has been in residential and was a rape victim themself (at the age of 6) it's easy to say hang out in college with Drama guild, listen in on some ABIGAYLES meetings and chat with people in Gay/Lesbian studies and then go around with the attitudes of Vault101, while thinking you won't become as jaded as your instructors and the experienced people that speak in your criminal justice classes. Then reality hits, and you start looking behind the curtain, like a lovecraftian story you can't unsee or unlearn what you find, and it changes everything. People I talk to here have their hearts in the right place, and I understand that intimately, on the other hand they speak from a position of ignorance, reinforced by isolation, controlled circumstances, and being free of the burden of knowledge that comes from having certain kinds of pseudo-authority and empowerment.