Poll: What was the turning point of World War 2?

[I_LIKE_CAKE]

Mussolini invading North Africa and getting pummeled led to Hitler postponing Operation Barbarossa in order to bail out his Italian ally. As a result, the German push to Moscow ground to halt just miles from the city in the winter of 1941. This gave the Soviets time to rush troops towards the front, move entire factories deep into Siberia, and begin pushing back.

 

[Clashero]

Battle of Stalingrad absolutely decimated the german soldiers. It was after this point that the Red Army started advancing on and eventually taking Germany. A lot of people say that America won the war and downplay what Britain, Russia, Norway, Turkey, Poland, Australia, Canada, Belgium, France, the Netherlands, Greece, New Zealand, China, and French Indochina (now Vietnam) (yes they were all on the allied side) did during the war (acting as if America fought the whole war by itself, which always pissed me off), but if you were to say that one country won the war, it would be Soviet Russia, where Red Army is decimated by YOU! Oh, and I have looked at the history and think that if Hitler had waited to attack Russia, then he could have won the war. And no, this is NOT Godwins law because this is actually relevant.

I don't know about waiting, but if he had retreated when it was clear that his troops were going to starve, he might have had a better shot.

 

[mr mcshiznit]

Never trust the opinions of a man who can't capitalize, use apostrophes, and can't spell "you're."

You know your point is shot when you have to resort to picking on a persons grammer instead of what he actually said. Or if you like this better, never trust the opinions of a man who bases if you can trust a persons thoughts on his use of apostrophes.

 

[Nmil-ek]

When Hitlers brains when *splat* against the wall.

 

[I_LIKE_CAKE]

I would also like to point out that Kursk, in addition to being the largest battle in the history of mankind, was the last time that Germany tried to take the initiative on the Eastern Front.

 

[Computer-Noob]

Havent learned about Stalingrad's significance in school yet, and from what I learned of D-Day it was pretty much what guarenteed the win. Personally I dont thin Pearl Harbour was a huge turning point, I think that what was happening in Europe was most significant (Once again, probably just because thats what I've learned)

 

[johnman]

Also its to note that Germany only one of greatest General's and field tacticians ever Rommel, lucky for us Hitler should have heard him more often.

Only Rommel? What about Manstein who planned the invasion of France, Guderian Who pioneered Bliztkreig and Von Runstadt. Germany had the best military command of all the nations in the war, its jsut that Hitler messed it all up.

Rommel is one of the greatest Generals in history and in the whole 20th century. He is the equivalent of Napoleon.(in some sort of way.).

Yes he lost North Africa but that wasnt entirely his fault. Hitler kept moving Rommels troops around and thinking that the British were completly destroyed. When Monty fought back Rommel didnt had the manpower to stop him.

Yes Rommel was great, but he was eclipsed by Guderian, who was there thoughout the war. He pretty much single handedly created the German army, created Blitzkreig, and led the invasion on France. He took so much land so quickly he was order to stop by OKW as the rest of the army couldnt keep up with him. He carried on regardlesss. You alwasy hear about how Hitler had troops to take Dunkirk, but ordered them to hold back? Well that was Guderian.
Rommel was still a grat general, but he had nothing on Guderian, who had the same problems with Hitler who would ask for his advice then ignore it.
Guderian is not as well known as Rommel either, mainly because Hitler kept dismmising him and changing his positions. Rommel simply used Guderians stragety to great effect, when Gudierian was unleashed the Nazis had the greatest vicotries of the war.

Isnt it the other way around? Rommel eclipsed Gunderian. And after the Bliz of Poland and France(which Rommel lend a hand too his "famous Ghost Division" helped alot.) Gunderian lost any important place he had within Hitler's circle. He warned Hitler that the Panzer divisions would frezee due to snow if they kept pushing into Russia. After STalingrad he was demoted to Panzer supervision(or something dont know the actual cargo he had.) in which is job was to ensure that the new Tank designs would work in any terrain.

Rommel on the other hand after the Blitz on Europe had room to shine on North Africa and he did. If it wasnt for the failure that was the Russian campaign he probably would never lost NA.

But both have one thing "good", both ignored Hitler's orders of the capture of Jewish people and never were charged with the War crimes in the Nuremberg Trials and were considered two soldiers.

Rommel died long before the Nuremberg Trials , he commited sucide after the assassination atempt on hilter. Guderian lived and was aquited. And dont dismissed Gudrian as unimportant, the posts he held were important, at one point he was resonbile for every panzer that was deployed. the fact that he was fired then reinstated by Hitler so many times speaks of his importance. His teachings from ACHUNG PANZER are still considered important to this day

Never said he was, only noted that he got demoted into a position were he wasnt needed at the time.

And plenty of Germans officers even dead were decleared war criminals for the holocaust. And plenty of others were dismissed. Even Churchill recognized Rommel's greatness more than once.

Both Rommel and Gunderian(and many other generals) were respected by the Allied forces as people that treated PoW's as human beings and in a civilized way, and the fact they never followed Hitler's extermination of Jews orders. Most of the old school german army(Rommel and Guderian fit in the mold) did the typical military salute instead of Hail Hitler thingie(or the Imperial salute whatever is called.) as they refused to practise such salute as it insulted them in some sort of military status.

But my opinion Rommel was the best the german army had from the begining to the end. Manstein and Guderian were good too.

Thats the beauty of this debate, it really is a matter of opinion. I thought Rommel was by far the best, i didnt even hear of Guderian till about 2 years ago when i started to do some in-depth reading. Rommel did get amazing victories, and if Hitler had not been distracted by Russsia, he would of probly steamrollered Africa and taken the Suez, leaving britian screwed in the east. But as i said before, he was simply using Guderians methods, and if Guderian had been in Rommels place he would have done equally well, if not better. But for me his real sticking piont was that he pretty much built the German army from scrach.

 

[johnman]

i think the Battle of the Bulge would be it, i don't know if it's on here or not, but for me, that would be the turning point.

The battle of the Bulge was pretty much insignificant. The germans was already on full retreat and its was Hitlers last mad scheme to snatch victory out if thin air. It went well at first as it was very well planned, but once the allies woke up and fouth back the Germans were buggered. Their tanks ran out of petrol and the had pretty much no fighter cover while the allies had air superiotity.

 

[Wolvaroo]

I'm very surprised at the lack of uninformed American "when we did all the work and won lololol" with obligatory "fuck yeah"s. maybe it's just because they haven't awoken en masse yet. I'll check back in a few hours.

Of the listed my vote has to go to Moscow.

 

[Horticulture]

I'm very surprised at the lack of uninformed American "when we did all the work and won lololol" with obligatory "fuck yeah"s. maybe it's just because they haven't awoken en masse yet. I'll check back in a few hours.

...at which point you may notice that the thread is over a month old.

 

[Same River New Water]

Just like Napoleon, trying failing to take Moscow proved to be the beginning of the end, although that wasn't obvious for a few more years.

Moscow is the center of russia. Lots and lots of roads... Roads that lead to the oil fields not to far off... If germany had taken moscow, then it would have been over for the russians practically.

Fixed?

I'm not sure though. Russia is a very difficult place to conquer and hold (as any Risk player knows). Controls of the oil fields would have seriously hampered the Russians' counterattack, but the manpower needed to maintain a hostile grip on a country as vast as Russia (even if they took only the thickly populated westernmost quarter - it's still a big country) would have made it difficult to sustain a world on the western front. Although maybe if the USA hadn't stepped in...

Well, it's all hypothetical. Regardless, Russia did a lot more of the work of winning World War Two than is often mentioned in movies. Presumably it would have got more of the credit if it didn't spend the next four decades being a paranoid-psychotic jerk to the Western world.

 

[Anachronism]

The war was won on the Eastern Front. Sure, Op. Overlord helped, but the Russians would have won eventually anyway. Kursk was a crushing defeat for the Nazis, and actually a bigger defeat than Stalingrad, but Stalingrad marked the Russians' first major victory.