Poll: What will the release of Steam Machines mean to you?

[Sight Unseen]

Steam Machine == Waste of Money

I don't see the point of buying. Especially if you already own a Gaming PC. If you don't, you should just buy a gaming PC instead of using a gimped PC in the guise of this "Steam Machine". No point in buying one and I will feel sorry for the money wasted by people in buying it.

Steam Machines aren't even out yet. The specs, prices, and even manufacturers haven't even been announced yet. How can you say something like this when there is literally nothing more than early hype being built around these things.

Also you can turn your gaming PC INTO a steam machine and/or use SteamOS for (hopefully) better performance and more customiseability than Windows.

This argument of yours applies even more to regular consoles, as they are EVEN MORE gimped PCs which are completely locked down. So if you have this problem with Steam Machines then I hope you don't rationalize consoles as being fine but Steam Machines not fine.

Consoles are fine. The Steam machine is LITERALLY nothing but a PC that has been gimped and focused as an overpriced toy for your living room. Why waste the money on it when you can buy a PC and just stream that to your TV? It makes no sense.

How do you know it'll be overpriced? How do you know it'll be gimped? Of the units they're sending out for the 300 beta testers, some of them will be sporting NVidia TITANS and i7 processors. That's WAY better than my (by most people's standards really high powered) computer, so yeah if THAT Steam Machine got sold commercially (protip: it won't) then it WOULD be really expensive, because it's using a $1000 graphics card not even considering the other parts. But the thing with Steam Machines is that there will be lots of different ones made by different companies for different markets for different prices. Want a high end PC-like Steam Machine? There will probably be one. Want a mid-range one that's portable to take on the road for you? They'll have you covered. Need a small one that'll only be used as a streaming hub, someone will make one. If there's a market for it, one can be made by anyone who has the know how to make it. And the price ranges for these devices will vary wildly. And guess what? If you don't like ANY of the ones on offer, you can turn your custom made PC into a Steam Machine or install SteamOS and get all the benefits of a steam machine on the computer you already have. But some people may want streaming machines or an entry level rig to get their feet wet into PC gaming without the hassle. That's who these consoles are aimed at. They'll also be customisable and upgradable in the same way as PC's are. To say that the steam machines will be overpriced and/or gimped at this stage is either extremely ignorant or extremely anti-Valve hate-speech because so far there is NO indication for (or against) this argument, since none of that information is even available yet. So why don't we just wait and see before blindly hating something you know nothing about.

Also CONSOLES are also LITERALLY nothing but PCs that have been gimped and focused as a toy for your living room. They now even use the exact same architecture as PCs for coding and the only real different between a console and a PC is that consoles are monopolized by one company, are completely locked down in terms of both hardware and software, and have a lot more limitations than PCs do. Steam machines won't have any of these limitations.

Also how exactly do you propose that we stream our PC to our TV? If it's in a room that's separate from where your TV is you need something to stream it to unless you have a really expensive high tech TV (do any TV's currently on the market support this functionality?) A cheap Steam Machine DESIGNED to be nothing more than a streaming box would fill this need perfectly and probably not have very expensive hardware at all so it'll be fairly cheap too.

Buy a 100$ Laptop. Install Steam OS. Stream games from PC to TV for 1/4 of the price of a Steam Machine (You really don't think they will sell one for under 400, do you?).

A Steam Machine is a PC in a box that will be sold at the very least a 20% markup over buying the parts separately and building your own. This "Machine" is also primarily centered for living room consumption. It is cheaper to build your own custom PC and either put that in the living room or use a cheap laptop and install Steam OS and just stream the games from your main PC to that laptop that you can plug an HMDI cord into and connect to your TV. Hell, many newer TV's today come with a built in functionality to connect wirelessly with a PC in the house.

Give me three reasons why a common person would choose to waste more money on a Steam Machine than buying a normal gaming computer or building one themselves? Or choosing the inevitably cheaper and less annoying path and just buy a proven console like the PS4 or Xbox One?

The Steam Machine is a waste of money. It will be overpriced the moment it launches unless Valve sells it for a loss which I HIGHLY doubt they will do.

I predict that they will make one which is designed exclusively for streaming and/or indie games (ala the Ouya) which will be $150-200 at most and maybe cheaper. Im not a hardware expert but they've publically stated that they're going to make these consoles for a wide range of applications and price ranges. For you to assume that they're going to just rip everyone off because they can and write the console off based on that is silly. Steam is trying to break into the living room and if everything was way overpriced then it would fail and I think Valve is smart enough to know that.

It might not be for you, but to say that it's a ripoff and an overpriced waste of money before the specs, price or even the MANUFACTURERS have been revealed is incredibly arrogant on your part.

The Ouya was a massive failure and a mistake from the onset. Trying to replicate it would only bring more failure.

I am a hardware expert and regardless of what they SAY they will do, unless they magically managed to get the hardware for nearly 70% off of their normal prices, they won't live up to the false promises they have been making. I am writing off on the Steam Machine not because I think they are trying to rip people off, but because there are better and cheaper alternatives for people who at least spend one iota of their brain power on something other than "What is the fastest and most lazy way I can do this".

No. The only thing "arrogant" is when someone who doesn't know what the hell they are talking about pretend like they do. You even mentioned that you aren't a hardware expert so why the hell are you even trying to make a case off of hardware?

By your own logic, if you can buy a $100 laptop for streaming, then Valve could also make a box made for streaming (that probably won't even need to have as many components/specs/software as said laptop[no CD drive, small hard drive, no screen or keyboard or trackpad, no Windows OS license or software]) for $100 or less too. I don't need to be a hardware expert to have an opinion on something and debate someone who is just blindly dismissing something when the facts aren't even out yet. Whether you're a hardware expert or not, you don't know what Valve has planned for their machines or what they plan to charge for them. You're the one making the very assertive doomsday claim about steam machines, you have the burden of proof to show why you're right. I'm not claiming that Valve's new machines will be the greatest thing ever, only disagreeing with your claim that you can automatically rule them out completely with literally no evidence. You're the one making the arrogant claim here because you're asserting a claim and presenting no evidence aside from random speculation and doomsday predictions on your part.

You could be completely right, and these will be a massive overpriced flop. But so far we have no evidence to support that claim and so you are being arrogant with your assertion that this console MUST be a failure before any facts are available.

 

[Nicholas Chandler-Yates]

The Ouya was a massive failure and a mistake from the onset. Trying to replicate it would only bring more failure.

I am a hardware expert and regardless of what they SAY they will do, unless they magically managed to get the hardware for nearly 70% off of their normal prices, they won't live up to the false promises they have been making. I am writing off on the Steam Machine not because I think they are trying to rip people off, but because there are better and cheaper alternatives for people who at least spend one iota of their brain power on something other than "What is the fastest and most lazy way I can do this".

No. The only thing "arrogant" is when someone who doesn't know what the hell they are talking about pretend like they do. You even mentioned that you aren't a hardware expert so why the hell are you even trying to make a case off of hardware?

THERE YOU GO: 'I am a hardware expert.'

*I*, however, am not, and a 20% markup is reasonable to me for the hassle it saves me: I don't have to search out all the parts, CHOOSE all the parts, get them SHIPPED TO NEW ZEALAND (which might end up in a more than 20% markup), find a case, put the damn thing together, HOPE it works, install an OS, buy a controller separately, etc, etc, etc, and STILL end up with a larger machine, because I doubt I can build something that is as small as steam machines have been purported to be (at least the beta ones).

*I* am PRECISELY the target audience for this, I want a gaming PC, don't want to buy overpriced Alienware shit, but don't want the hassle of building it myself.

And I don't want some massive tower that is gonna be a pain in my ass to carry around with me when I move (I move house a lot), or be something massive sitting next to my TV.

Edit: the Ouya was a failure for 3 reasons, their controller sucked, it wasn't powerful enough to even run all mobile games without chugging, and the launch lineup was a bit bad.
I don't see how steam will have any of these problems.
1: while some might not like the new controller, initial reviews have been almost universally positive as a very useful bit of hardware tech.
2: steam machines are modular, "pick your own power level" from the modest- to the extreme.
3: Steam Machines may have the biggest launch lineup of any console EVER, in terms of sheer volume of games (if you consider them a console, and if you consider the existing steam library a launch lineup).

 

[votemarvel]

I'm keen to see what they do with it but very little else.

Personally I can't see sticking the Steam brand name on a linux distro causing a great amount of developers to rush to the operating system.

 

[Sight Unseen]

Snip.

We do have evidence. From the machines that were sent out, people have shown what is inside of them. We can make an educated guess of the 300 or so machines sent out for Valve's plan/idea. It doesn't look promising at all. As for a streaming service, Valve has already announced that it would be the SteamOS itself. They aren't going to be making a special machine for under 100$ with little to nothing inside just so a person can stream to their TV. It would be a massive waste of manufacturing space when they can spend no money and still get the product out to people. Basic Business 101.

Valve has already publicly stated that the 300 beta units should not be considered representative of what the final manufacturers will be making (see EDIT). They just wanted to make an example of a high end model and ship them out to see how people interacted with them and help guide the direction of their actual retail hardware that they'll eventually sell. They made those beta units in house purely to give out to test. The actual models will be made by actual computer hardware manufacturers and have different components and specs which haven't been revealed yet, and they will be tailor made to suit various different needs (high performance, small size, streaming-only, quiet, light, etc). While some might be $2000 monsters that can run any game on Max Settings at 4K resolution, I'd wager that most will be between $400-800 middle of the road consoles with specs similar or slightly better than the next gen consoles/mid range PCs. I'm positive that I've read an article where a Valve employee has stated that there will likely be cheap models made for super entry level PC gaming and streaming. So far I haven't been able to track down that source but if I find it I will update my post here.

EDIT: From the FAQ that was posted the first day these were announced:

Q:If you guys are delivering an OS to hardware manufacturers, why is Valve also making its own box?
A:We're conducting a beta of the overall Steam living-room experience, so we needed to build prototype hardware on which to run tests. At Valve we always rely on real-world testing as part of our design process. The specific machine we're testing is designed for users who want the most control possible over their hardware. Other boxes will optimize for size, price, quietness, or other factors.

http://store.steampowered.com/livingroom/SteamMachines/

Also- ultimately if the Steam Machines don't appeal to you you don't have to buy one. Valve isn't forcing anyone to buy them, and Steam/SteamOS will work on any normal PC that you already have if that's a better option for you.

 

[Dragonbums]

-snip-

And people like to call the Nintendo Defense Force annoying.

That is one observation I have seen constantly with Valve fans.


Nobody can touch them when it comes to making games.

The last big advertisement I have seen for their games is Portal 2. That's it.

They are more of a software digital store front than a game company now and you know it. Yeah, the make games from time to time, but at their core they still focus more on Steam and the expansion of Steam than anything else.

This is on top of the fact that criticisms levied at other companies- Valve gets a free pass on.

People want to know what is happening to HL3. Instead of just coming out and saying they aren't working on it anymore, like even the scummiest of companies like EA would do, they keep declining solid answers and keep somehow managing to keep the hype machine running for years.

Any criticisms against them are met with swift backlash from diehard Valve fans.

Because Valve never does anything wrong, and anyone who dares says otherwise is clearly irrational.

You keep posting release dates of games, which I have basically said beforehand anyway. I just never put a definite number on it.

You then use my username in a mock parody, and overall get all heated because I called out Valve on some of the stuff they get a free pass on that other companies would be called out on in a heartbeat.

 

[Dragonbums]

Off topic but you still haven't even addressed my refutation of what you said on the previous page, and I think it's still relevant to the discussion at hand. Allow me to repost it here:

I mean, I don't spend my life in front of a computer. Chances are if somebody takes a while to reply to you it can be assumed that they are either somewhere else on the web, or they are doing something in real life.

No matter how you rationalize it, Valve is a SMALL company,

And they can't expand...because?

and they are revolutionizing the industry in ways that Activision, EA, and Ubisoft have never done.

Ubisoft and Activision have shown no real interest in getting into the hardware business anyway. So they aren't even Valve's competition, and they certainly don't give a shit what Valve decides to do. They are simply a third party dev studio going along their daily business.
The only reason why EA is in the spotlight is because they launched Origin. Steam's primary competitor.

Valve isn't revolutionizing the industry. They are simply revolutionizing digital game distribution. Something that only has a large affect on PC gamers. For console and handheld gamers it only created a ripple affect in as much as each console has an online store which was probably going to happen anyway, with or without Valve.

to bring the PC experience to console gamers.

The annoying part about claims like these is that it assumes the only reason why console gamers are still console gamers is because they don't know anything about PC gaming. The fact of the matter is we do. I play games on my laptop from time to time. However I still want to play games on my consoles and handhelds. The Steambox seems to only mainly attract PC gamers in need of a new rig. And even then that is entirely dependent on whether or not they can simply build a PC cheaper.

The Steambox is simply Steam OS inside a box. It isn't bringing any "PC" experience to the living room. It's bringing PC games to the living room. Something that only for a few genres most people already have.

Afterall, you have so many PC elitist complaining on here about how consoles are bringing the PC's down, or whatever whine they have of the week.

If I wanted the PC experience, than I will simply play Steam on my PC. And based on the poll that exactly what an enormous amount of people on this site. This is a PC centric site so imagine what this pole would look like on other sites like IGN.

 

[lacktheknack]

-snip-

And people like to call the Nintendo Defense Force annoying.

That is one observation I have seen constantly with Valve fans.


Nobody can touch them when it comes to making games.

The last big advertisement I have seen for their games is Portal 2. That's it.

They are more of a software digital store front than a game company now and you know it. Yeah, the make games from time to time, but at their core they still focus more on Steam and the expansion of Steam than anything else.

This is on top of the fact that criticisms levied at other companies- Valve gets a free pass on.

People want to know what is happening to HL3. Instead of just coming out and saying they aren't working on it anymore, like even the scummiest of companies like EA would do, they keep declining solid answers and keep somehow managing to keep the hype machine running for years.

Any criticisms against them are met with swift backlash from diehard Valve fans.

Because Valve never does anything wrong, and anyone who dares says otherwise is clearly irrational.

You keep posting release dates of games, which I have basically said beforehand anyway. I just never put a definite number on it.

You then use my username in a mock parody, and overall get all heated because I called out Valve on some of the stuff they get a free pass on that other companies would be called out on in a heartbeat.

I'm not even a massive Valve fan. I haven't even played any of the Half Lifes.

Look: I don't like Ubisoft. I kind of hate Ubisoft, really. But when someone whinges about how evil they are because of "the awful DRM", I pounce like a tiger and point out that they abandoned it a year ago.

I'm not a fan of EA either. But I wrote a freaking review on this site of Origin, and gave in an A-.

Why?

Because the truth matters to me.

And saying that Valve doesn't do games anymore and is only notable a digital download retailer/hardware designer is a complete, utter, blatant and brazen lie.

And you know that too.

Also, if you seriously think that Valve isn't getting backlash on their actions, come back when there's a "Are You Hyped About Half Life 3" thread. You'd think the entire site consisted of emotionally shattered, passive-aggressive zombies.

 

[WeepingAngels]

So is anyone worried that Valve entering the console market will have similar results that Microsoft had. Mainly where Microsoft stopped caring about PC gaming?

 

[Nicholas Chandler-Yates]

snip

You can get a nice compact case very easily. Most "custom-built" computers with large cases are generally overclocked to hell and back and need a lot of room to cool down or as decoration for offices as the larger the case, the more convoluted its design generally is. You can pick up minimalistic case of various sizes pretty easily if you spend half a second in Newegg or google in general. There are also multiple websites that give you lists of "Entry, Average, or High" levels of game machines with the parts you need to build. Even if you don't like that most sites give recommended parts that people have bought a certain part with in bundles. Best bet would be to look for the CPU you want, find a Mobo and the rest should be child's play. I have seen middle schoolers figure this out in under 10 minutes. It shouldn't be that hard for a grown adult.

The Steam Machine isn't a console, it is an overpriced computer. Therefore it has the "launch line-up" of any computer you can buy currently.

Well I didn't say it was a console, I said *if* you consider it a console, and some major news sources have been calling it that. (after all consoles are just closed off PCs too). You could say it is an 'open' console, or a console-like PC, or just say that its a PC with a fancy linux distro and a fancy controller. Semantics really.

Your arguments about getting compact cases are true, I *could* but I wouldn't know what would all fit in the box, would have to do a bunch of research on tech that fits in slimline cases, how to get it all to fit (like putting a puzzle together the smaller it gets), I can do all of these things if I wanted, but for a markup of 20% I would prefer someone else do it and I get to spend my time on something else instead, it just doesn't sound fun to me. Seriously, with as little as I know about hardware, it would make more sense just based on an hourly wage estimate. How many hours am I gonna spend on this? for example you say start with what CPU I want, I know NOTHING about CPUs, I do not know the name of a single CPU. I know what a Nividia Titan is, thats about it.

Sneer at me if you like, but clearly it is going to take several hours of research to get up to speed on all this stuff, and several more to decide what parts I would want and make sure they are all compatible and find a case that they will all fit in, and several MORE hours to order all of these parts, and then several MORE HOURS to put it all together and install an OS on it. All total thats about 10 hours of work, maybe less, maybe a bit more. Fuck if I worked 10 hours at my job (which I would have a lot more fun doing than this bullshit) i would make more money than the 20% markup... so fuck it... a Steam Machine would make sense for me to buy at a 20% markup.

Sneer at me for being lazy, or non tech savvy, or whatever else you like, but there are others like me. It is why Alienware PCs sell despite being WAY over-priced.

 

[Dragonbums]

So is anyone worried that Valve entering the console market will have similar results that Microsoft had. Mainly where Microsoft stopped caring about PC gaming?

I don't think so. The bulk of their income is the Steam market place. And a lot of devs and pubs still go there to publish their games.

Granted they might need to work on their increasingly draconinan Steam policies.

 

[Dragonbums]

I'm not even a massive Valve fan. I haven't even played any of the Half Lifes.


Because the truth matters to me.

And saying that Valve doesn't do games anymore and is only notable a digital download retailer/hardware designer is a complete, utter, blatant and brazen lie.

That is my perception of Valve. The only game I know they released recently was DOTA 2. I heard nothing about Counter strike, or Alien Swarm, or any of those other games.

Most of the news I hear about Valve is Steambox, Steam sales, and Half Life 3 rumor mills being dusted off again.

So yeah, I honestly think that Steam is more important to Valve than their games.

Also, if you seriously think that Valve isn't getting backlash on their actions, come back when there's a "Are You Hyped About Half Life 3" thread. You'd think the entire site consisted of emotionally shattered, passive-aggressive zombies.

For as many people who are upset at Valve for Half Life 3, you have thousands of others who will shit their pants and buy the game day 1 at the very mention of the game finally being released. Which will more or less gratify Valve for dangling half baked empty promises for 6 years about a vaporware game.

 

[J Tyran]

Only the OS really interests me, perhaps the controller too if enough games start supporting it or it comes with decent software to get it working in games. The Steam machine isn't something I would buy, unless it offered massive subsidies on hardware I would be much more interested in building my own machine and then installing the OS. Building a PC and fiddling with afterwards is part of the hobby itself for me, just plonking a pre-built PC in the corner isn't the same for me.

 

[Nicholas Chandler-Yates]

Only the OS really interests me, perhaps the controller too if enough games start supporting it or it comes with decent software to get it working in games. The Steam machine isn't something I would buy, unless it offered massive subsidies on hardware I would be much more interested in building my own machine and then installing the OS. Building a PC and fiddling with afterwards is part of the hobby itself for me, just plonking a pre-built PC in the corner isn't the same for me.

And this is exactly what Valve has been saying: if you like fiddling with hardware, BUILD YOUR OWN, we salute you. For those that don't, were building it for you (at what price we don't know yet tho).

Just *TRY* to imagine Microsoft/Sony suggesting that you build your own xbone/ps4 and then offering the XboxOS/PS4OS to you for free... Just try and picture this in your head...
...
...
...
...thats right... you can't do it.

 

[Nicholas Chandler-Yates]

For as many people who are upset at Valve for Half Life 3, you have thousands of others who will shit their pants and buy the game day 1 at the very mention of the game finally being released. Which will more or less gratify Valve for dangling half baked empty promises for 6 years about a vaporware game.

Yeah valve leaving HL2E2 on a cliffhanger for 6 years kinda pisses me off, but I wouldn't have wanted them to release a bad game just for the sake of releasing a game because the fanboys demanded it.

But, just to be perfectly fair on valve, they haven't been 'dangling half baked empty promises'. Actually, they have done the opposite, they refuse to talk about it at all (Which, to be perfectly fair to YOUR side of the argument, does make people speculate all the more).

Edit: as for your comment, nearly all those people that are upset at valve for half-life 3 will shit their pants anyway, yours truly included.

 

[CannibalCorpses]

Hrrrmmm...why would i buy a steam machine when all the games that come out for pc nowadays are console ports? Apart from a few games there is nothing on the PC that would warrant my purchasing one and plenty besides to turn me away.

 

[SecondPrize]

So Valve's Steam Machines and SteamOS are coming next year, I've heard praise and some vitriolic comments about them too. Valve has gone on record saying they have no plans for exclusive games for SteamOS, so that means no Half life 3 to make you buy one. I want to know what the average gamer plans to do once they are released.

Personally, I am pretty interested in this. I am a PC gamer who has been using my 4 year old laptop (macbook pro with windows 7 bootcamp) for gaming for much of the last generation, and I am due for an upgrade of some kind. I am considering getting a high end one, depending on pricing.

I am also really interested in the Steam Controller, as I hate gaming with those chincy thumbsticks on Xbox and PS controllers, I just can't aim properly (because I am inept with them).

I haven't really paid much attention but it all depends on the specs and price points. And if they're upgradeable. If they've got decent specs at a good price i'll buy one to serve as a console for couch style gaming. If you can upgrade them i'll buy one so I can stop spending money on pc's and just get a desktop which suits my needs and throw money at fancy tech in the steambox instead of in a desktop.

 

[Nicholas Chandler-Yates]

Hrrrmmm...why would i buy a steam machine when all the games that come out for pc nowadays are console ports? Apart from a few games there is nothing on the PC that would warrant my purchasing one and plenty besides to turn me away.

Depends on what you are looking to play, there are still massive amounts of PC exclusive games, especially strategy games and on the indie scene. Most of the games that get big hype and/or lots of advertising are games that release on all three platforms, and they aren't all 'console ports' (although some definitely are). I suppose that the 'Lack of exclusives give me no incentive' option would apply to you I suppose.

 

[Nicholas Chandler-Yates]

snip

I haven't really paid much attention but it all depends on the specs and price points. And if they're upgradeable. If they've got decent specs at a good price i'll buy one to serve as a console for couch style gaming. If you can upgrade them i'll buy one so I can stop spending money on pc's and just get a desktop which suits my needs and throw money at fancy tech in the steambox instead of in a desktop.

They are fully upgradable and hackable, just like a PC, this has already been stated in the initial release.