Poll: What would be the backlash of a female criminal in games?

[Guerilla]

Snip.

Snip

snip

Well then. Wikipedia. Good job buddy, a totally trustworthy source, if I had Wikipedia as a source in my papers, they would fucking fail me in university. But still even Wikipedia agrees with that I said earlier.

Government, media outlets and other institutions engage in censorship yes, but what Target has done here IS LISTENED TO ITS CONSUMERS. There is no censorship here. I suggest you live in 1950s and 60s US where censorship and McCarthyism was at its height. Or Communist China. Or the any other communist/totalitarian system out there. Try living in Russia right now, where the government actually censors the mass media and threatens it to keep it in line.This, this isn't censorship. This is just something that shows that games are still an easy target. And no I do not agree with that petition that helped pull GTAV from Target. YOU ARE NOT OPPRESSED. YOU ARE NOT CENSORED. You can still get the game.

And you clearly have something against feminism when you use "supposedly" and "actually". Women have fought for over a hundred years now for the same rights, same wages and same equality. But hey apparently they want to lord it over men. I go to a university that services a large chunk of Western Canada dude (No not in BC, where the hippies are) and I know what feminism is.

And I already made provisions what those radical feminists are: NOT FEMINISTS.

You continue grasping at straws trying to downplay this act of censorship (because if it's not McCarthyism or Chinese dictatorship it's not censorship... right?) while at the same time defending feminism from "radical feminists". I suppose people like you who defend and downplay such obnoxious acts of censorship are the non-radical feminists, right? People can reach their own conclusions, I have nothing else to add here....

 

[Redryhno]

And I already made provisions what those radical feminists are: NOT FEMINISTS.

You say they're not Feminists, I agree with that. Doesn't stop them from calling themselves feminists and public opinion of feminism is getting lower every year because of that. Even though most people agree with the ideals of feminism, there's very few willing to call themselves that because of said radical elements being the most vocal and are the majority seen on the internet.

Whether you like it or not, Feminism has been getting dragged through the dirt for years because of these "feminists" and most people would prefer to go with Egalitarianism nowadays, because it doesn't bring up images like pulling a fire alarm on a MRA introduction and then start screaming at them for saying "WTF are you doing". Or the notorious Tumblrite "feminist" complaining about someone saying vagina in their general vicinity without first uttering the sacred prayer that establishes you aren't going to rape or harm all said jiggly bit in sight.

 

[happyninja42]

We are thus left with two questions. One is why is it tragic when a woman dies but expected when a man dies.

Because our culture puts more value on a woman's life than a man's in most circles. The whole "women and children first" thing is an example of this belief. It's been around for centuries, and it's just how a lot of our culture operates. Men are expected to be violent, and aggressive, and coming to violent ends for them is something that's just been taught over and over through the generations. Women in general are not expected to do these things. They are expected to do more nurturing and gentle things. That's why most goddesses in mythology usually have a purview of beauty, fertility, growth, etc etc. Basically stuff not violence related. Sure there are some examples, but they're the minority if you take the group as a whole. Women do nice, flowery things, men do violent, bloody things. So when you see violence against children and women, it's considered "crossing a line", but with men, well, that's just their lot in life.

I don't actually agree with this philosophy, and fully embrace the equality of punching a woman if she actually deserves it. I also fully embrace her right to beat the shit out of someone back. Both genders have the capacity for violence and gentleness, and both should be equally allowed to express those aspects. But since you're question is why we don't care when men get hurt, but we do when women do, I feel it's rooted in what I said above.

Two is simply the headline of the post, what would be the consequences of a female criminal. Question one is fairly simple, media grooms us to see it like that. Is that a problem? I suppose it is a minor one but is is certainly changing. As women in real life take on more and more jobs society see as masculine this bias will an is eroding. The second question is far more interesting and I have no answer for it. The reason I have no answer for it is rather simple in that I would not care. So this criminal is a female, there are female criminals in life they put one in game. why should I care other than being intrigued it broke with the status quo?

I will leave you with a YouTube Video that says about the same thing a bit more eloquently as I find this an interesting question

Spoiler: In defense of Guybrush Threepwood

Do you mean criminal protagonists specifically? Or just criminal women in games? 'Cause there are plenty of examples of women who are criminals (villains) in games. So I'm not really sure exactly what context you mean here. Do you mean "Will people flip their shit if we get a game where its basically GTA: The Female Edition" ? I doubt it, beyond the usual "urhmagurd violent games are killing our children!!" camp of nutballs.

 

[Lieju]

There are many games where you can and do shoot female criminals. Hell I think the last enemy I killed was a female criminal and I killed them by shooting their head off. It's not an issue, in fact I want more female enemies in games. I'm sure you can find someone somewhere who has an issue with that because you can always find someone but generally the people "unconformable" with fighting female criminals are men and half them I suspect don't really notice. It only becomes an issue when you focus on it and they think about it too hard. You also have to keep in mind while some might not like it many others might give praise.

If you sexualized the violence against them or you have them just be a victim who dose nothing but wait to be killed or who can only offer you sex to try and save their life then you might get backlash if it becomes an internet talking point.

Yeah, I want more female enemies, just as I want more female protagonists. Grunts, bosses, monstery female enemies, bystanders etc.

Also agree on sexualisation. That was the problem with the nuns in the Hitman-trailer for example.
If you sexualise a female character and then show them being brutalized, that's kinda a whole other kettle of fish.
(And considering male enemies usually aren't sexualized...)

There have been female enemies with zero backlash.

EDIT: I would have liked seeing a female protagonist in GTAV because I think it would have been an interesting story-opportunity. (And you had three protagonists, so all the guys who are afraid of cooties could have avoided her then...)
You can play a female boss in Saint's row but it's a different kind of game, and your gender does not matter at all.
A story about a woman making a name for herself in criminal underworld would have been something I haven't seen before and something GTA could have pulled off because it was going to sell very well anyway.

 

[Haerthan]

Snip.

Snip

snip

snip

It isn't censorship because you yourself have no idea what censorship is. It has to be massive, there has to be a majour official sanction. You know what is censorship? Australia's Ratings Board, or whatever they call it there. They told the guys who made South Parth: The Stick of Truth to change certain scenes, they banned Saints Row, forgot which one. They have their 18+ Rating but guess what they aren't using it too often. The Australian government actively censored videogames. And let's bring Jack Thompson back from the grave (no he's not dead, just irrelevant). That guy wanted to ban violent videogames without a bloody thought. He was backed by more than 46,000 people (amount of petitioners that Target listened to and you can bet your ass they did some research to more than just those guys) in America. But hey I am downplaying. There is nothing to downplay here, when compared to what the Australian government, to what Jack Thompson did. Just so you know I didn't agree with the petition that "forced" Target to remove the game. You are NOT affected by this even if you live in Australia, there's still vendors that sell you the game.

And feminism does need people like to say that those people are not feminists. The true feminists, the ones that advocate EQUALITY for all, do not advocate to take away your games. And defending feminism from radicals is called a debate. I will always call out radicals where I can. Once again they are not feminists. Again YOU are not oppressed by anyone.

 

[Haerthan]

Snip.

Snip

snip

snip.

Listen to it's customers?I didn't know a group of moral guardians and armchair activists were the majority of Target's sales.

Yes because sex workers are totally moral guardians. Spare me the ignorance please. Bad enough I have a headache since I woke up today. I don't need more of it.

 

[Haerthan]

Snip

Snip

I don't like it one bloody bit. Which is why I don't have Tumbler. And we all know that the Internet gives voice to the most vocal minority. If people think that Tumbler "feminists" (not real ones anyways), represents the majority of feminism than they have an issue. If you think that feminism = Tumbler feminist, than boy oh boy you just pissed off the European feminists. I took a course in German Feminist Literature, there is nothing there that advocates what those Tumblimistes (Tumbler+feminists get it?lol) want. The majority of feminism doesn't support what those Tumblimistes want.

 

[Haerthan]

We will probably hear that it is MYSOGYNYSTIC MISREPESENTATION OF MISWOMEN and bla bla bla. Take Bayonetta 2 reviews and shuffle words a bit. Fighting fucktoy and stuff.

I actually disagree with the review for Bayonetta 2 (shocking I know). Does it have some issues? Yes, but it's part of the mood. Completely batshit insane (that being the mood). So why not make a character that employs sexuality that is misunderstood (BDSM references and attacks in the game). They made it and they made it good. And the review never had the "fighting fucktoy" words in it, if i remember correctly.

 

[Haerthan]

Snip.

Snip

snip

snip.

Listen to it's customers?I didn't know a group of moral guardians and armchair activists were the majority of Target's sales.

Yes because sex workers are totally moral guardians. Spare me the ignorance please. Bad enough I have a headache since I woke up today. I don't need more of it.

I didn't know who started the petition so how about you spare me the rudeness.It's still stupid either way.

Sorry I shouldn't have been rude. I'll try better next time.
Edit: Yes it still is stupid. I never agreed with the petition. I agreed with Target cause they listened to their consumers. They most likely made their research before pulling it.

 

[Something Amyss]

I want a female Trevor. I'm just saying, as I feel this is somewhat related to the topic.

Listen to it's customers?I didn't know a group of moral guardians and armchair activists were the majority of Target's sales.

It's a bad idea to compound a statement you have no way of backing up with a stereotype you can't verify.

Well, I mean, unless you don't care one lick about honesty. If that's the case, I can't really stop you.

There have been female enemies with zero backlash.

Reality has no place in this discussion. You should know that by now.

 

[Haerthan]

Snip

Snip

I don't like it one bloody bit. Which is why I don't have Tumbler. And we all know that the Internet gives voice to the most vocal minority. If people think that Tumbler "feminists" (not real ones anyways), represents the majority of feminism than they have an issue. If you think that feminism = Tumbler feminist, than boy oh boy you just pissed off the European feminists. I took a course in German Feminist Literature, there is nothing there that advocates what those Tumblimistes (Tumbler+feminists get it?lol) want. The majority of feminism doesn't support what those Tumblimistes want.

The problem is perception,when most people think of feminism they don't think of the type you describe,they think of the man hating extremist type that wants to make the male population subservient to women.

Over 50% of women refuse to identify as feminists in the US for exactly that reason.

Well the US has always had its issues. I just wish people would bloody well educate themselves about the stuff they spout. Education, Education, Education. That is what lifted most of the world from the bloody Dark Ages. Well I have been following news in the US with regards to female reproductive rights, let's just say that it isn't pretty if you are in Texas or Mississippi.

 

[Something Amyss]

It isn't censorship because you yourself have no idea what censorship is.

Here, let me help. It's censorship, but not in any meaningful sense. The people crying afoul of "censorship" are trying to game the definition in the most useless way possible, to the point any consumer advocacy or boycott counts as censorship. Which often includes their own activities. If I had a nickel for every one of the "censorship" panickers in these threads who told someone on here before to "vote with their wallet" (precisely what these people are doing) or "just don't support (x) if you don't like (practice Y") or who were involved in that certain gaming consumer movement, I'd have enough cash to...well, I'd have a few bucks, anyway.

 

[Haerthan]

We will probably hear that it is MYSOGYNYSTIC MISREPESENTATION OF MISWOMEN and bla bla bla. Take Bayonetta 2 reviews and shuffle words a bit. Fighting fucktoy and stuff.

I actually disagree with the review for Bayonetta 2 (shocking I know). Does it have some issues? Yes, but it's part of the mood. Completely batshit insane (that being the mood). So why not make a character that employs sexuality that is misunderstood (BDSM references and attacks in the game). They made it and they made it good. And the review never had the "fighting fucktoy" words in it, if i remember correctly.

Well I just meant to say that people attacking games are pretty much the same every time and therefore their rhetoric would stay the same, regardless of the contents of the game. Because they are not doing this for the good of games and they are not doing it for the good of consumers, they are doing it to appeal to certain groups of people and get popularity and clicks.
Yes, this is pretty much what I meant to say before my malkavian brain messed it up.

Not really. The radical feminists (NOT ANITA SARKEESIAN) that attack videogames (the petition- although that is debatable) are not the same as the rightwing religious zealots (Jack Thompson and his ilk). They have a similar rhetoric, yes, but not the same. Otherwise you are spot on.

The only problem I have with this entire thing is that sex workers (who most likely suffered abuse) made this thing. Sure prostitution is legal in Australia, but unless it is regulated PROPERLY, there will always be victims.

Edit: the problem I have with this entire situation is that I DO NOT know how to go about this thing. But it most likely has a different solution than the petition. And outside the gaming industry.

Edit2: Yea our brains are our greatest traitors at teh worst of time my friend.