Poll: What's so good about America?

[keybird]

ehh the more I find out about other nations the less bad america looks so I suppose Ill give it a good

Ditto, nice sig

 

[Venatio]

One thing you should never do when judging the worth of a country is play the past guilt card. Such things completely obscure the relevance of the country and its accomplsihements. Is the past important? yes, but going back 100-300 years... not so much. The present is important, for it decides the future.

Look at Britain; there was once a time when the sun never set on its Empire. They were making a mess of the world before we came into our own. They refused to give India its independence after its sent soldiers to fight in WWI. The same can be said of for most European countries, and indeed many problems today, from the genocidal conflicts in Africa to the fractured power struggle that stands for politics in the Middle East can be traced to European colonization when they not only tampered with said society but did it in a way that would leave lasting resentment. Did it also bring westernization across the world and its benefits? yes, but along with its failings as well. But you can start to see why the past cant be our primary judge of character - to each generation their own I say.

We have existed for less than 300 years and by the standards of the longer established Nation we are young. We still have a long way to go before we achieve everything we wish to stand for, if we ever.

I still believe the U.S.A is excepetional though, and to that end I will work for its benefit.

 

[RobCoxxy]

I visited for the first time in February and by god, I loved it, sandwiches as big as my torso.

 

[keybird]

This video explains it well.

FUCK YEAH

 

[Silva]

I didn't realize that censorship and banning of media wasn't a big deal. Just like invasion of privacy probably isn't a big deal, is it?

My objection was on the basis of scale. I am well aware, being a media studies major, that censorship is a serious issue. You simply can't justly judge a country purely on the basis of how it treats the media, much less only one medium. Keep in mind that the media in Australia is otherwise extremely free; video games are the exception, not the rule.

 

[Supreme Unleaded]

snip

snipity snip

more snips

snippy snippy

I know this has absolutly nothing to do with what your talking about[sup][sup]dont kill m emods[/sup][/sup] but i noticed something that i find very funny.

Look At your names, 2012 Wont Happen and UltraParanoia. lol, the paranoid and the unparanoid. ugh its like 11 pm and im tired thats probably why i find this funny.

 

[dex-dex]

as much as people that I know say that the states are fantastic and stuff
I really am not fond of the states
I have no real urge to go back and anytime a person I was talking to found out I was Canadian they were going on stereotypes that are not even true.
one lady said that she was amazed that i had not said "eh" once.

another issue that I find annoying is when I went into a store and asked for my zip code, I said I did not have one,the lady had a panic attack at me not having a zip code.
I did not think it was that big of a deal when I said I did not have one.

 

[Joeshie]

I didn't realize that censorship and banning of media wasn't a big deal. Just like invasion of privacy probably isn't a big deal, is it?

My objection was on the basis of scale. I am well aware, being a media studies major, that censorship is a serious issue. You simply can't justly judge a country purely on the basis of how it treats the media, much less only one medium. Keep in mind that the media in Australia is otherwise extremely free; video games are the exception, not the rule.

My objective wasn't to point out that these countries are terrible just because of the few reasons I listed. My objective was to point out that while America does stupid shit, so do other Western countries. I then provided some examples.

To be perfectly clear to the people in this thread, I am well aware of the mistakes America makes. I was opposed to the Iraq War, I hate the fact that we are denying people the right to marry, and I was furious with Bush at the Patriot Act. I just want to point out that before you judge America on these facts, be aware of the fuck-ups that other countries make.

 

[Dys]

When you say "we've consistently fallen behind of other western nations in ... the level of economic cooperation facilitated between our citizens" I assume you are a socialist, and that would be the opposite of freedom, considering that it takes away the freedom of how you can spend YOUR money. These political ideas aren't shared by everyone, or even most Americans, for that matter.

One could argue that socialism increases your freedom because it creates an environment where everyone is free to pursue education or investments as they see fit (as oppose to not being able to afford the bare necessities). Not that it's at all relevent to the argument or necissarily the most effective point of veiw one could have.

OT: I dislike America, immensly. I hate them for all the failed economical, political and social concepts that Australian politicians blindly follow. There's also the constant stream of crap produced (media and products), the fact that everybody I know has at some point had reason to complain about an obnoxious american tourist whilst travelling themselves, the general stupidity displayed regularly by so many americans (often through their own media), the infatuation with starting wars regularly, the over the top constant religious spewing propoganda (actually, that only really bothers me in politicians, but they do it a whole lot) and the general poverty gap which allows for a horrendusly uneducated majority.

 

[firedfns13]

Seems a great deal better than where a fair number of my friends have come from. America > Taiwan, Venezuela, China, Mongolia, Russia, Poland, Vietnam, Philippines, and I'm sure there are more.

I actually think that Taipei is by far the sweetest city I've ever spent more than 6 months living in, the closest competition might be San Francisco, but I was only there for a 3 week stay at a relative's place. Also spent time in Halifax, New York, LA, and ChenDu (only 4 months here, but it was quite an intense two months).
The American cities were cool (except LA, I hated that place). I find that America doesn't suit me because it's quite polarized, and I don't mean that in a totally negative way. It's politics are certainly polarized, but what I didn't like the most was the economic polarization. I found that it was extremely difficult to be "middle class" in the US. In Canada and Taiwan our family was able to live what can be considered typical middle class lives (single parent household too), but it was almost impossible to do in the US. I think it was mostly the tuition problem. If we had stayed in the US my university tuition would nearly bankrupt us, where as in Canada, I don't even have to go into debt for it.
The US has a lot of positives too. I'm just not too attracted to the upsides of the US. The American dream is built so that you have to work really really really hard, and I kind of follow my grandmother's idea of "You live to play, not to work", so I guess I fundamentally don't fit into America that well. I guess the overall mark would be average for me.

That makes perfect sense. Unfortunately for me, I'm pretty stuck here as a lower middle class resident. But I understand exactly what you mean, because I live near some multimillion dollar homes and homes that I could buy now with the money I earned all summer. I think it is a shame that us college students get effed over so much, and I've never been outside the US except for a trip to Niagara Falls when I was 8, so I don't know much about living in different cities. I would like to say though... there's a line about 50 miles south of chicago that marks a different country though.

 

[S-Unleashed]

I happen to like my home country a lot. Our technology is some of the best on Earth, even in its current state our economy kicks the ass of a lot of the world, we've got one of the largest republics on Earth... yeah, I think the US is pretty great. Of course I could be biased, what with me being an American and all.

Thank you for saying what I was going to.

 

[ReincarnatedFTP]

Well the politics are horrible, because it doesn't even have a mainstream left wing. It's far right and centre right.

We'll progress though. I don't take pride in America the concept, America the borders, but I take pride in the intelligent Americans I know, even being that I live in bumfuck Alabama.

Hopefully one day we'll get universal healthcare, class disparity will disappear, religious/sexual/racial bigots will be marginalized, religious stupidity (anti-evolution, abstinence education), war on drugs will go away for the bullshit it is, foreign policy will improve etc. etc.. I can't guarantee America will get better, but I'll try.

The thing you need to remember is no country is great, it's the people and the practices. Do your best to change it. Even if it takes longer then every other nation in the world it will be worth it.

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

edit-

someone demanded that I own up to being a socialist, because apparently that's a really important detail

why does america seem to have such a problem with socialists? never understood that.

OT: While i like americans as individuals the country itself from where i'm sitting here in the U.K. comes across as rather egomanic, controlling, saying one thing while doing another and convertly trying to build a religious empire whilst condemming other empires (many of which they worked to disband after the world wars).

I know that may come across as extreme to many, but it is a pretty accurate condensed version of what many people here i know, and know about, feel.

Are socialists generally accepted in Britain?

Sure, to the point that in the last set of local elections the communist party did ok in my area, didnt come anywhere near winning but better than the christian party and suchlike. its not a big deal over here. i mean, two of my best mayes, one is a marxist and the other believes facism is the only workable social model in the long run. the two of them get along fine and are a great laugh to listen to after a few drinks.

I honestly cannot understand the pervieved american stance 'kill all commies'. the USSR collapsed ages ago and that wasnt even proper communism once Stalin got the reins. i really dont understand it.

possibly you could shed some light on it?

Most Americans think of Stalin as the absolute definition of communism. Furthermore, many believe that the Nazi (National Socialist) Party of Germany was truly socialist rather than fascist, as it was, under Hitler.

In general Americans are ignorant about any Marxist ideology. I actually heard someone once ask a communist why they preferred communism, an economic system with a political aspect, to Democracy, which is a system of election and decision making.

The same thing with socialism. People ask me why I don't like Democracy because I'm an open socialist.

 

[Arkzism]

favorite thing about the us, i can believe what i want and talk about what i want, its legal and protected that we can voice our opinion, granted i hate the american people. sorry most of you are rather dumb... not you guys but you guys over there

 

[Pingieking]

*snip*

I feel for you. We've got lots of American students here, and the total cost of living+studying in Halifax is still less than just the tuition of some American universities, even with the Canadian dollar almost on par to the American.

With a little more thought, I think I can articulate my opinion a little better.

I'm a laid back guy, who wants to live comfortably, but not lavishly. Coming from a single parent family, I'm use to not having fancy stuff (like cars; in fact, I really hate cars), so I want to reach an economic level that can buy me a cozy living space (mortgage, ugh...), provide food and sufficient clothing for my family, and have a tad bit left for entertainment uses. I also want to be able to help my children through university; not necessarily to pay for the entire thing, but I don't want my kids to be working part time while taking a full course load (having done it myself, I think it's just cruel to have to work 20~30 hours on top of school).

In order to achieve that, I feel that the US is not a good way for me to go, since I like to be lazy for a day or two per month. If I wanted to make loads of money at the expense of me lazying off for 24 hours once every 2 weeks, then the US would be quite good. But I don't. I think that play is more important to me than work, and if given the choice between having a salary of over 1,000,000 and having no time to spend with family, or making 75,000 but have free health-care, 6 weeks vacation a year, and cheap, quality university education for my kids, I'd take the latter.

Funny thing is that my view seems to be rejected in America as being "a lazy man's delusion". It also seems extremely difficult to achieve the lifestyle I want in the US(for reasons unknown to me). Compared to either Taiwan or Canada, I seem to have to work a lot harder to achieve the same level of life quality in the US. The nice thing is that the US really has no cap on your quality of life, where in Canada/Taiwan there is a bit of one. It is still extremely high, but not nearly as high as that of the US. I'm just unwilling to devote my life to achieving that kind of quality.

 

[Cortheya]

America is awesome. Here's why

B52 MITO (Minimum Interval Take Off)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJ7niLYSVFo

So, to recap:

7,320,000 pounds of airborne pain.

1,050,000 pounds of conventional bombs or 360 nuclear weapons.

No other nation can do this.

We can do it about a dozen times, by which time the first squadron has rearmed, refueled, reloaded.

the American military industrial complex is part of what is horribly wrong with this country

Patriotic rage incoming....
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How the HELL is our military what's horribly wrong with this country? And as for those who say that America is homophobic, xenophobic, and racist, much of the planet is that way but NOOOOO America gets blamed for it. There are racists homophobes what have you in this country but it is still a good country.

I just always find it strange America proclaims itself land of the free where you can say and do anything but seems so racist, homophobic, conservative and xenophobic compared to other western countries.

How ignorant are you? The fact that we allow people to be racist, homophobic, conservative, and xenophobic just means that we allow people to say what they want. Isn't that the definition of freedom of speech?

a lot of countries allow their citizens to be racist, homophobic, conservative, and xenophobic. they're just not. thus his point stands.

When you say "we've consistently fallen behind of other western nations in ... the level of economic cooperation facilitated between our citizens" I assume you are a socialist, and that would be the opposite of freedom, considering that it takes away the freedom of how you can spend YOUR money. These political ideas aren't shared by everyone, or even most Americans, for that matter.

oh yes capitalism definitely lets the lower working class have freedom. they're absolutely not modern slaves at all. if they'd just get off their lazy asses every persn in america could own five cars an a mansion.

two mansions in fact

and a pony...

(internet high fivez)

Aaah yes it'd certainly be better to put money in the hands of the government. People who work hard and earn money are evil and don't deserve it. All poor people are the good underdogs.... In America you have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness....not the guarantee that happiness will be supplied but the pursuit. You have no right to other people's money. And as for capitalists allowing for modern day slave driving... don't make me laugh.
Several things I don't like about America are the massive polarization of the parties and the fact that gays for the most part can't marry.

 

[Silva]

If your middle and upper classes can pay 50% taxes and everyone in the nation will be taken care of- I say good

Yeah, reward the lazy and punish the hard-workers. Sounds like the right attitude to me.

I know we've settled the other thing, but now that I've seen this exchange, I feel the need to address it.

Honestly, inheritance means that it's not just hard workers that become rich. In fact, only a small amount get there by hard work. The rest have rich parents, get the support they need to go through a better education, and get better job opportunities as a result. Thus, we have class disparity. The rich work less, earn more. The poor work harder, to earn less. The rich, with the power of currency, demand even more money for less effort, so that their families after them can have stable lives. Politics, subservient to the media, which is subservient in turn to some of those rich upperclass people, acquieses to demands, and the poor have to pick up the slack.

As a result, the middle class splits in two and eventually fades into the lower and upper, until finally, the dream to reach high becomes impossible for those at the bottom. That is not the situation that democracy was meant to create, but it is what is occurring in America.

Systems of reward, like the one you're implying is so good, are not stable and never have been. Relying on an emotional tendency (should it truly exist in actual individuals on a society-wide scale; I would contest that it does not) to respond to bonuses and rewards for hard work is an unwise choice, since it will only result in greater demand for easy benefits from those who gain power later on.

Eventually, that emotional (and therefore irrational, individualistic, selfish and shortsighted) demand either dies out from outbreaks of despair such as the current psycho-social trend towards depression (caused by stress from overwork), or erupts in class conflicts. Neither result is desirable, that's why the current economic system of America, and the whole basis of the American dream, is so questionable. Which wouldn't matter so much to the rest of the world if America wasn't, in the short term, still an economic superpower.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

Hate the people in the country, not the country itself.

I quite like the American people in general.

However, I think that the people who generally run it, acting as the country, are completely inept

Well, thank the people acting as the country that they've allowed you the right to freely critique them without consequence. America has a lot of problems and definitely isn't perfect, but it really shines by comparison. There are very few places I would rather live than America.

One thing that causes so many problems for America is that throughout its formation up until very recently, America was extremely open to any and all immigration. We have a level of diversity in our country (and therefore, a lot of warring cultural ideologies) which few places can match. America kind of makes things harder on itself by granting so many rights and freedoms to its citizens. If we were a totalitarian dictatorship, we'd probably have a stabler economy. Of course, I'd be working in a mine or sweatshop right now, so don't think I'm advocating that.

Compared to the rest of the world- America treats its citizens absolutely superbly. Its actions in foreign countries sicken me, well, some of them do. Some are good.

However, there are very few western nations that don't grant their citizens free speech. So that point is somewhat mute as to the specific discussion.

They might grant them that, but it's usually not in writing that they have it as a right. In other words, it can be taken away anytime the government feels like it.

with a two thirds vote it can here too.

the constitution is not sacred, it has been changed, and outright ignored, many times in our history

Sure, but at least we can point at the writing and say that we, the people, know what rights are being denied us and that we won't stand for it. In other countries, how can you fight for a right your government doesn't legally acknowledge is yours?

 

[Jinx_Dragon]

Average...

All nations have a fucked up history, every single one. Australia? Stolen generation comes first to mind. That bullshit happened right up to the end of 1970! so recent history at that.

There is nothing exceptional about the USA, there is nothing defective about it either. It is a atypical, average, western nation.

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

Hate the people in the country, not the country itself.

I quite like the American people in general.

However, I think that the people who generally run it, acting as the country, are completely inept

Well, thank the people acting as the country that they've allowed you the right to freely critique them without consequence. America has a lot of problems and definitely isn't perfect, but it really shines by comparison. There are very few places I would rather live than America.

One thing that causes so many problems for America is that throughout its formation up until very recently, America was extremely open to any and all immigration. We have a level of diversity in our country (and therefore, a lot of warring cultural ideologies) which few places can match. America kind of makes things harder on itself by granting so many rights and freedoms to its citizens. If we were a totalitarian dictatorship, we'd probably have a stabler economy. Of course, I'd be working in a mine or sweatshop right now, so don't think I'm advocating that.

Compared to the rest of the world- America treats its citizens absolutely superbly. Its actions in foreign countries sicken me, well, some of them do. Some are good.

However, there are very few western nations that don't grant their citizens free speech. So that point is somewhat mute as to the specific discussion.

They might grant them that, but it's usually not in writing that they have it as a right. In other words, it can be taken away anytime the government feels like it.

with a two thirds vote it can here too.

the constitution is not sacred, it has been changed, and outright ignored, many times in our history

Sure, but at least we can point at the writing and say that we, the people, know what rights are being denied us and that we won't stand for it. In other countries, how can you fight for a right your government doesn't legally acknowledge is yours?

The way that gays fight for the right to mary in this country...

by going out and fucking doing it regardless of the fact that tradition and laws are against their just cause