Poll: What's wrong with piracy

[Blue Musician]

In my opinion in first worlds countries there is no excuse for piracy. At all.

However, I stand that in third world countries it is a whole different issue. The issue is of the availability and actual possibilities of acquisition of a product. Take for example Mexico: a game costs around $60-70 USD for a game from 2001 (in this case, the original Halo for PC). The minimum (and average) wage of a Mexican worker? Less than $4 USD per day. This would be around 15 days of work, without spending them over that time. Now if we make counts for the amount of the salary spent on food, clothing electricity and water, acquiring creative products are not very possible, to the point were piracy is the only option, both from an entertainment and educational point of view.

For example IMSLP [http://imslp.org/wiki/], while not actually following the copyright of Mexico, if it closed down it would be and actual hit for the music schools, due that it is the only place where sheets are reliable and available. Mexico has a copyright of 100+ years, and as aforementioned piracy is actually needed to be able to obtain anything.


Why do I have the feeling that 71% of the Escapists are from First world countries?

 

[TheTaco007]

It is acquiring something you would normally have to pay for for free. IE Stealing, which is amoral. There is an argument for "Well, I wouldn't buy it if I had to pay for it," and honestly, I'm ok with being a little amoral if it means I get to save money.

 

[fenrizz]

It has been said before, piracy is pretty much stealing, regardless of how many units the game sells. If you download a game you already own, that´s another story, but unless you do, it´s really that simple.

Actually, simply put it isn't stealing, it's copying without permision from the publisher

theirs a word for that i believe its "stealing"

No, the word is copyright infringement.

No matter how you feel about piracy, it is not theft.

 

[LBringer]

So, those of you that condone piracy as a sin... do you guys all pay the lady that owns the copyright to 'Happy Birthday' every time you sing it at a party?

 

[DracoSuave]

That why there are people out there that pirate to get free stuff and some that don't. Life is kinda crazy like that sometimes.

And it's those that do it to get free stuff that are the reason why developers are trying to combat piracy.

I do commend you on one thing; at least you're not so naive as to pretend those people don't exist. Most pro-piracy arguments take that group of people and when people mention them, you can see the abject denial decend like a dark cloud of obsfucation. I practically expect one to go 'Don't look at that wizard behind the curtain!'

So, those of you that condone piracy as a sin... do you guys all pay the lady that owns the copyright to 'Happy Birthday' every time you sing it at a party?

Fair Use.

Try a different strawman.

 

[ecoho]

Let me start off by saying that in all my life I have torrented 1 game, Doom 1. I have also been given a pirated version of Age of Empires 2 (a game I already owned but needed to run off a memory stick). Thats it, and both of those files are long gone.

None of this however is a moral objection to piracy, I have no objections to people that do it, I mainly don't pirate due to my desire to have a large physical collection of games, and the fact that old games are easier to find through legitimate means which usually work better. But when I see people complain about piracy I often wonder, why are you against it? I understand that there are some situations where piracy is harmful, like if a game sells poorly or if it is in support of a charity, but who gives a shit if a game like Modern Warfare 3 or Skyrim is pirated.

Feel free to tell me I'm wrong.

ok go to patv.com and watch the extra credits episode on piracy.

 

[suitepee7]

Let me start off by saying that in all my life I have torrented 1 game, Doom 1. I have also been given a pirated version of Age of Empires 2 (a game I already owned but needed to run off a memory stick). Thats it, and both of those files are long gone.

None of this however is a moral objection to piracy, I have no objections to people that do it, I mainly don't pirate due to my desire to have a large physical collection of games, and the fact that old games are easier to find through legitimate means which usually work better. But when I see people complain about piracy I often wonder, why are you against it? I understand that there are some situations where piracy is harmful, like if a game sells poorly or if it is in support of a charity, but who gives a shit if a game like Modern Warfare 3 or Skyrim is pirated.

Feel free to tell me I'm wrong.

in the same essence, is it wrong to steal something from a shopping outlet? thats all it is, stealing. anybody who says otherwise is in denial about the crime they are committing.

 

[Savagezion]

That why there are people out there that pirate to get free stuff and some that don't. Life is kinda crazy like that sometimes.

And it's those that do it to get free stuff that are the reason why developers are trying to combat piracy.

I do commend you on one thing; at least you're not so naive as to pretend those people don't exist. Most pro-piracy arguments take that group of people and when people mention them, you can see the abject denial decend like a dark cloud of obsfucation. I practically expect one to go 'Don't look at that wizard behind the curtain!'

I think that comes from the fact that the industry uses a large dose of hyperbole to make piracy look like more of a problem than it is. Basically, if they are going to claim that every downloaded copy is a lost sale and just people looking for free stuff, it stands to reason that one can claim none of the downloads are people looking to get free stuff. To agree with either of those sides will make you hypocritical. Both are wrong and I disagree with both equally.

It is simply the other side of the coin. I wouldn't call myself "pro-piracy" by any means. I just am a guy looking for the ounces of truth in the tons of BS from both sides. It irritates me when pirates claim it is an innocent act just as much as it irritates me when the industry acts like it is tearing down the economy of the industry and that they are victims of some heinous underground. Both are gross exaggerations. The truth is in the middle. There are pros and cons to piracy and any morality to it is on the individual. It simply has a lot more to it than right and wrong.

 

[Andy Beaumont]

Personally, I have downloaded several games.... original sims city, dungeon keeper. All games I owned but in moving have lost the discs to... I recently downloaded oblivion as I had never played it before, loved it, and have now bought skyrim BECAUSE of that... I usually buy pre-owned games and I don't ever download new games, at least within a year or two of their release. So yes this may be doing harm to a store like gamestop etc... but not the industry as a whole...

 

[Arcane Azmadi]

OK then, let me put it this way: paying money for games is good enough for millions of people, what's so fucking special about you that you figure you should get the same games for free?

 

[LBringer]

Fair use

So, those of you that condone piracy as a sin... do you guys all pay the lady that owns the copyright to 'Happy Birthday' every time you sing it at a party?

Fair Use.

Try a different strawman.

Fair Use:
In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include?
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a
commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted
work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted
work.

How does that allow you to sing it when she could make money from it? The scope of the Fair Use portion of the law is intentionally vague to allow people to not allow Fair Use. I'm not charging someone for the software, and since it's a copy and not a retail disc it doesn't impact the market as there's not less to sell.

Now, keep in mind I don't believe piracy falls under fair use, but on the same note that song technically wouldn't by the same intellectual property copyright.

 

[Kingjackl]

People can justify it all they like, but, like all theft, piracy is ultimately the taking of someone else's property (or in this case, the product of several months of hard work), without due recompence. You can crow about how a few downloaded games don't affect the big picture, or that those pirates wouldn't have brought it anyway, but the fact remains that you are freeloading, plain and simple.

What's also notable is that the majority of video game piracy takes place on the PC, and PCs are by nature expensive for gaming. So it makes even less sense that a person couldn't just buy the game.

 

[fenrizz]

]

OK then, let me put it this way: paying money for games is good enough for millions of people, what's so fucking special about you that you figure you should get the same games for free?

Because I easily can.
That would be the most obvious answer.

Note that I do not condone piracy, nor do I pirate.

 

[Screamarie]

While I know there are big money and industry parts to it, for me it comes down to one thing. It's stealing.

You can try and pretty it up, tell me you're not hurting anyone, you're not taking anything that has a phsyical body, but lots of people put YEARS of time and effort to make that with the intention of selling it for profit to pay their bills.

It's stealing. End of discussion. The only time I do not have any problem with pirating is if you can't find an actual copy of it because it's too old or it's not sold in your country.

 

[Klopy]

Companies need money to keep going, so pirating is bad.
Sometimes a game may not seem interesting but you can torrent it, so its... good?

I dunno. It seems like a fight between WANT and NEED here. There is no GOOD about torrenting. Its stealing for personal gain. And yes, its stealing. Its putting a fake copy of the game in front of you, in place of a game that would have cost money.

Yes, I have torrented. But, to be honest, nothing that adds up to over 20 bucks. I've downloaded some music and a couple of games that aren't even in stores anymore or that I've owned at one point. The music I could have downloaded off of Youtube for free(but woulda taken more time) anyway.

Ever heard of a game called Demigod? Well.... Read this.

You may have heard by now that recently released PC game Demigod has been thoroughly raped by pirates, to the point where, at one point, only 12% of the title's online users were legitimate customers. That is pretty damn harsh, and developer Stardock has some equally harsh words to say about it.

"Demigod is heavily pirated," writes Stardock boss Brad Wardell. "And make no mistake, piracy pisses me off.

"If you?re playing a pirated copy right now, if you?re one of those people on Hamachi or GameRanger playing a pirated copy and have been for more than a few days, then you should either buy it or accept that you?re a thief and quit rationalizing it any other way."

Hell hath no fury like a PC developer scorned. At last count, it's suggested that over 100,000 naughty pirates have ripped Demigod off, so one can understand why Wardell is pissed. Still, I doubt trying to shame them on his blog will sway public opinion, especially when most pirates have already rationalized in their heads that they are freedom fighters rather than brain burglars.
http://www.destructoid.com/demigod-dev-to-pirates-accept-you-re-a-thief-131731.phtml

TD;DR. Only 12% of Demigod's online users were legitimate customers. This pretty much ruined the company. They can't make games anymore because of the fear of more torrenting and lost money.

Please... We want to fund companies that make fun games, right? It gives them incentive to make more. If everyone stole, then no one would want to make games anymore. You're not being a hero by sticking it to the man. You're saying that you deserve the months of labor spent on the game for free. Think think think. They spent months on this. They wanted like 30 bucks for this game. Not even 60. And it was destroyed.

 

[fenrizz]

While I know there are big money and industry parts to it, for me it comes down to one thing. It's stealing.

You can try and pretty it up, tell me you're not hurting anyone, you're not taking anything that has a phsyical body, but lots of people put YEARS of time and effort to make that with the intention of selling it for profit to pay their bills.

It's stealing. End of discussion. The only time I do not have any problem with pirating is if you can't find an actual copy of it because it's too old or it's not sold in your country.

It is not stealing, nor is it theft.
It is copyright infringement.

The law says so, so please stop insisting that it is.
I'd rather discuss the implications and impact of piracy.

 

[Screamarie]

While I know there are big money and industry parts to it, for me it comes down to one thing. It's stealing.

You can try and pretty it up, tell me you're not hurting anyone, you're not taking anything that has a phsyical body, but lots of people put YEARS of time and effort to make that with the intention of selling it for profit to pay their bills.

It's stealing. End of discussion. The only time I do not have any problem with pirating is if you can't find an actual copy of it because it's too old or it's not sold in your country.

It is not stealing, nor is it theft.
It is copyright infringement.

The law says so, so please stop insisting that it is.
I'd rather discuss the implications and impact of piracy.

According to dictionary.com - to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force.

Yes, it is copyright infringement but that doesn't mean it's not stealing as well.

Also, you are not the king of these forums. If you wish to discuss the implications and impact of piracy then you may do so, but that doesn't mean I can't answer the question of "why am I against it?" that the original poster posed. Stop pretending that you know better than everyone else.

 

[fenrizz]

While I know there are big money and industry parts to it, for me it comes down to one thing. It's stealing.

You can try and pretty it up, tell me you're not hurting anyone, you're not taking anything that has a phsyical body, but lots of people put YEARS of time and effort to make that with the intention of selling it for profit to pay their bills.

It's stealing. End of discussion. The only time I do not have any problem with pirating is if you can't find an actual copy of it because it's too old or it's not sold in your country.

It is not stealing, nor is it theft.
It is copyright infringement.

The law says so, so please stop insisting that it is.
I'd rather discuss the implications and impact of piracy.

According to dictionary.com - to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force.

Yes, it is copyright infringement but that doesn't mean it's not stealing as well.

Also, you are not the king of these forums. If you wish to discuss the implications and impact of piracy then you may do so, but that doesn't mean I can't answer the question of "why am I against it?" that the original poster posed. Stop pretending that you know better than everyone else.

Then stop claiming that piracy is something that it is not.

From Wikipedia:

The actus reus of theft is usually defined as an unauthorized taking, keeping or using of another's property which must be accompanied by a mens rea of dishonesty and/or the intent to permanently deprive the owner or the person with rightful possession of that property or its use

You are not the king of criminal law.
And under the law piracy is not the same as theft.

Stop pretending that you know better than the law.

 

[Harlief]

I keep hearing people pirating game just so they can try them out and then buy the actual game... WTF?!

1. You literally stole a copy of the full game.
2. Just because you can buy a copy doesn't mean the one you stole should of been on your computer in the first place.
3. What's going to stop you from just running off with that stolen copy anyway? It's the full game and you don't need to do anything else.
4. Um... don't do it?

First thing: that's not what 'literally' means, and secondly: you assume that pirates don't have a conscience.

How many other industries have a 'try before you buy' or a '30 day money back' policy? Not unheard of, not considered immoral, so.... why is it considered immoral to try before you buy with video games? Demos still exist, but not for all games. Why do demos exist in the first place? Try before you buy.

What's more, not all piracy occurs before the sale because of horrible and hard to use DRM that takes away from the gaming experience.