Does not make it correct. Period. It makes them just as bad as they think she is. Its not comedy to tell someone to kill themselves.Smithnikov said:
Poll: Which Group of People You Should Never Make Fun Of?
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Comedy is subjective. Some like light humour, some like fart jokes, some have a really really dark sense of humour. Dark humour jokes are common in the UK. Frankie Boyle and Jimmy Carr can be extreme because they know their audience. Some love it, some don't.Imperioratorex Caprae said:
In terms of Ann Coulter being roasted so harshly, a person who profits off hate, division and bullshit, well... well I lost zero sleep. I got a semi really.
I know, I know, two wrongs don't make a right. I can be a hypocrite at times.
First post in and my answer's already been taken. Dayymn. Oh well, back to wicked woods with a scamper of shame then.Phasmal said:
I agree. Any group of people that will accuse people of being racist because they said "All Lives Matters". That demonstrates a lack of perspective and sensibility.one squirrel said:
You do know that this leaves very little in the way of material for comedy, right, since there will always be someone that takes something personal?Lil devils x said:
And what about violent movies? Should we not have scenes of someone getting stabbed or injured, because people who have suffered through actual physical trauma might experience post-traumatic stress from watching it?
Saying we shouldn't make fun if it might get people killed, basically means we should leave certain things unquestioned. That we shouldn't criticize... well, anything. Because what makes one thing a legitimate target for criticism (ridicule), but not another?
By making everything alright to ridicule we take away power from those who might use it to keep their line of thought free from criticism.
I say, everyone should be fair game... as long as it's civil. Problem is that everyone's so damned thin-skinned these days...
It leaves quite a bit for comedy, if you are actually funny it isn't much of a problem at all. People who experience PTSD usually know what they should avoid, and violent movies are just one of the many things. Even a loud sound can trigger an episode. It is kind of like dealing with epilepsy, you know what you should avoid and actively try to do so to prevent episodes. Not that we should ban those things entirely. Instead we put a warning on them to let people know ahead of time so they can avoid them. In regards to how we treat others in general, however that should be a given to have that defaults ed " respect". People should not be forced to be shat on everywhere they go having crap thrown in their face nonstop. Everyone should have the right to exist peacefully without people trying to make their life harder for them than it has to be.Casual Shinji said:
No, that does not mean that we should leave things unquestioned. Questioning =\= ridicule. criticism =\= ridicule. Criticism can be done tactfully and it's purpose should be to expand knowledge and understanding, not to humiliate or embarrass. ridiculing, humiliating another is a form of psychological abuse. While we recognize the damages done to children by parents who do this, this does nto suddenly make it okay to do to other adults. The psychological impact is still the same. It is far more harmful to society to treat others this way when there are far better and more effective options at our disposal to utilize to expand knowledge understanding and compassion to receive better end results.
http://www.healthyplace.com/abuse/child-psychological-abuse/what-is-psychological-abuse-of-a-child/
We use reason rather than ridicule.
This is pretty much my point in a nutshell. The line of thought that some things are off limits is a problem. Either everything is fair game or nothing is. Because I can always find someone who will find a problem with virtually any joke.Casual Shinji said:
That isn't really true at all, there are plenty of jokes that are actually funny, and really jokes about someone's disability, race, gender, or health condition really are not funny to begin with. Comedians do not need to prop themselves up at the expense of others in order to be funny. Hurtful =\= funny.Saltyk said:
You're right. Hurtful is not funny. That's why no one laughs at men getting hit in the balls!Lil devils x said:
Once again, I can find someone who will be offended by nearly any joke. Remember how I made a joke to a friend at work about giving him a '****** bar'? Well, I'm almost certain that joke offended you. It didn't offend my friend. He thought it was hilarious. So perhaps offense isn't so subjective.
What is hurtful is not universal. Offense is taken, not given. Things that offend you, probably don't offend me. Things that offend me, probably won't offend someone else. The whole idea that we have to avoid offending people is not just wrong, it is actively harmful to society and progress. Sometimes people have to be offended. Sometimes that is good. Often the truth hurts. Maybe being offended will make them take a moment and reflect on themselves.
But you said it yourself. People are good at knowing what bothers them. They can avoid those things. Perhaps people should do that. And maybe they should also realize that they do not have a right to not be offended, and that being offended is not harmful.
Oh, and for the record, few people on this site are more aware of what it is to live with mental disability than me. I've never once found jokes about mental handicaps, or people calling things retarded, to be offensive.
In the Er, yea, we do not really laugh at people being hit in the balls when they are seriously injured.. If you have seen what I seen, you wouldn't be laughing either. Some things just cannot be unseen. My immediate response is to make sure they are okay.Saltyk said:
Like I said earlier, it is better to make sure you know the person well enough and be able to judge how they will respond before making a call like that.
People shouldn't be ridiculing or " making fun" of people in general, especially not due to their race, sexuality, disability or anything like that. Yes, people should treat others with respect by default. Yes, treat everyone like a special snowflake as default, especially until you get to know them better to understand whether or not you are being offensive to them. Now say your friend is laughing ridiculously sounding and their drink comes out their nose, that is something you can give them a bit of hell over, but it is situational. Making jokes about peoples race, gender sex or disability though isn't in good fun and is not even funny, it just makes you an asshole. The world could do with less assholes and more empathy.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.942869-Poll-Which-Group-of-People-You-Should-Never-Make-Fun-Of#23790022
What is and is not offensive to people varies, however, often even when people laugh it off and say it doesn't bother them at the time, they may still be uncomfortable with it but are just trying to make it easier to get along by not bringing that up, even when asked. More often than not, people just don't speak up, they just "deal with it" and not say anything because it isn't worth the the effort. You can't avoid things if people are throwing in your face everywhere you go. ALSO if you make a racist joke at work, or if you are in a position of authority, you can make that a hostile working environment for those who do not share your entertainment at their expense.
Even though something does not bother you, you should not assume it does not bother others. The reason we treat everyone with respect is to make them feel comfortable and welcome and not excluded and ridiculed. While of course some are more resilient than others, humiliating people has short term and long term impacts. Respect for others is not harmful to society or blocking progress in any way, the opposite however is true, humiliation ACTUALLY IS. You are actually causing harm:
Sticks and Stones--Hurtful Words Damage the Brain
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-new-brain/201010/sticks-and-stones-hurtful-words-damage-the-brain
The One Emotion That Really Hurts Your Brain
New research reveals the fearsome impact of humiliation
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201407/the-one-emotion-really-hurts-your-brain
http://www.yourtango.com/experts/dr-hillary-goldsher/psychological-ramifcations-public-humiliation
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hide-and-seek/201408/the-psychology-humiliation
It is far more beneficial to society to eliminate ridicule than to promote it. It is a false statement to claim that it is harmful to society and progress to avoid offending people and to treat them with respect. Science has shown that the opposite is in fact true. It is harmful to ridicule, embarrass and humiliate people, not harmful to treat them with respect. The idea isn't that there is one universal thing that applies to everyone, instead it is that we should treat all people with respect and we will not have to worry about every little thing being offensive in the first place. We do not assume that because it does not offend us that it may not offend someone else, that isn't really how respect works.
I'm sorry. Hypocrisy thy name is.... but all the people pretending this is a free speech issue. I remember in the school-bullying thread, I made what I thought was the moderate argument that teachers can't realistically police what students say and don't say to eachother. The OP phrasing this argument and the numerous virtue signallers screaming about evil SJWs... I remember you edgelords then jumping all over the argument that teachers can't be Batman and defend hurt feelings.
Just because you were beaten up and mocked in highschool and make demands on teachers pretending the can cut through all that noise, then turning around and pretending you can equivocate that people should be mocked in the workplace or streets and workplace and it's censorshop for people calling you out on it ... is hypocrisy. Yes... I'm calling out the OP, Zontar, and any other anonymous edgelords of the internet who pretend that the state can, and then cannot, police the speech of others based on whatever bullshit reasons. If open mockery is bullying in the schoolyard and should be stopped ... what makes it less so in the workplace or directed at individuals in the street?
I have far more respect for people who at least recognize nobody deserves to be singled out solely for a characteristics of their existence that they have no rightful reason to sacrifice in the terms of their liberty and then say schools should try harder to stamp it out ... at least their argument operates on a metaphysical standard of morality. Regardless of the fact that it is divorced from reality that all schoolkids can be nice to eachother and teachers can somehow cast magic to make all the bad things go away.
There's no metric to these things. Are you making fun of someone because of what they do or say? Probably ok. If you're mocking someone solely for what they are. It's not okay. If you keep mocking someone, or persist in deriding someone to the exclusion of all others or those others solely because of a characteristic of being... you're probably a nasty **** that deserves a good thumping for running their mouth.
Arseholes hiding behind 'comedy' are still arseholes. And no... it's not 'censorship'. If an employee of mine finally snapped and punched another employee because they were constantly running their mouth and won't shut up, a part of me is going to find it reasonable. Believe it or not... workplace is for work... if you say something that you know is not going to be taken well and you keep doing it, don't then pretend people are just going to suck it up. If you keep railing against someone for being gay ... don't then complain when a bear turns around and says; "Perhaps you want to repeat what you just said..."
Clearly... if you kept making fun of, say, trans people, don't then pretend the possibility of someone with a trans kid sticking a finger in your chest and giving you a face-ripping is somehow unjustified. Particularly when you know for a fact that their kid receives similar abuse in school or the workplace. And no, it's not a case of simply being 'sensitive'... it's a case of people having limits to their patience and standing up to bullies. Particularly when people hide behind 'comedy' as a means of simply undermining them publicly.
Words have meaning. And when it's blatantly obvious you're just insulting someone for no other reason that you think people like them and their existence are a joke... prepare to have potential conflict inflicted upon you in any myriad of ways, own the fact that you're stirring shit with fighting words... and own part of the responsibility and your actions in stirring up the potential conflict.
Don't pretend that fighting words don't exist.
Just because you were beaten up and mocked in highschool and make demands on teachers pretending the can cut through all that noise, then turning around and pretending you can equivocate that people should be mocked in the workplace or streets and workplace and it's censorshop for people calling you out on it ... is hypocrisy. Yes... I'm calling out the OP, Zontar, and any other anonymous edgelords of the internet who pretend that the state can, and then cannot, police the speech of others based on whatever bullshit reasons. If open mockery is bullying in the schoolyard and should be stopped ... what makes it less so in the workplace or directed at individuals in the street?
I have far more respect for people who at least recognize nobody deserves to be singled out solely for a characteristics of their existence that they have no rightful reason to sacrifice in the terms of their liberty and then say schools should try harder to stamp it out ... at least their argument operates on a metaphysical standard of morality. Regardless of the fact that it is divorced from reality that all schoolkids can be nice to eachother and teachers can somehow cast magic to make all the bad things go away.
There's no metric to these things. Are you making fun of someone because of what they do or say? Probably ok. If you're mocking someone solely for what they are. It's not okay. If you keep mocking someone, or persist in deriding someone to the exclusion of all others or those others solely because of a characteristic of being... you're probably a nasty **** that deserves a good thumping for running their mouth.
Arseholes hiding behind 'comedy' are still arseholes. And no... it's not 'censorship'. If an employee of mine finally snapped and punched another employee because they were constantly running their mouth and won't shut up, a part of me is going to find it reasonable. Believe it or not... workplace is for work... if you say something that you know is not going to be taken well and you keep doing it, don't then pretend people are just going to suck it up. If you keep railing against someone for being gay ... don't then complain when a bear turns around and says; "Perhaps you want to repeat what you just said..."
Clearly... if you kept making fun of, say, trans people, don't then pretend the possibility of someone with a trans kid sticking a finger in your chest and giving you a face-ripping is somehow unjustified. Particularly when you know for a fact that their kid receives similar abuse in school or the workplace. And no, it's not a case of simply being 'sensitive'... it's a case of people having limits to their patience and standing up to bullies. Particularly when people hide behind 'comedy' as a means of simply undermining them publicly.
Words have meaning. And when it's blatantly obvious you're just insulting someone for no other reason that you think people like them and their existence are a joke... prepare to have potential conflict inflicted upon you in any myriad of ways, own the fact that you're stirring shit with fighting words... and own part of the responsibility and your actions in stirring up the potential conflict.
Don't pretend that fighting words don't exist.
This reminds me of that Zizek video where he discusses the role of dirty jokes in social interactions.
Yeah, that would be marvelous, except that here are people out there that don't see the difference between ridicule and criticism. Any form of questioning will be seen by them as ridicule, which is then answered with threats and/or violence. Not everyone operates on the same level of reasoning, and some have none at all.Lil devils x said:
You seem to be arguing sense of humor more than anything; You don't find jokes about disabilities or race funny, therefor no one should. Well, what if there's people who don't find jokes about religion or their government funny, and see it as an attack, as being shat on, as psychological abuse? What if they observe mere criticism in the same light?
You say people with PTSD know what to avoid, well the same goes for comedy. If you go to a stand-up, or watch a comedy movie or TV show, you know it can and will target anything. And if you can't accept that it's best you stay away from it.
The answer to progressing forward is education, ignorance is not a reason to not do something. You don't just claim" oh we can;t do that because people are too stupid to do that" No, we educate people to the difference of course rather than try to do the wrong thing instead. Having shat thrown in your face at work, on the street, and everywhere else you go is not something one can avoid. you set the standard to what is and what is not acceptable and teach people rather than just say it is okay to be harmful/ toxic because people will not know the difference between that and constructive criticism. It has been proven actually harmful to ridicule people, and just like any other form of harm people responsible for causing that harm should be held accountable. If someone knocks you down on purpose and damages your brain, it is not only illegal, but you can sure them for damages as well, that should apply to any other injury just the same.Casual Shinji said:
Maybe you should read the links I provided above:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-new-brain/201010/sticks-and-stones-hurtful-words-damage-the-brain
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201407/the-one-emotion-really-hurts-your-brain
http://www.yourtango.com/experts/dr-hillary-goldsher/psychological-ramifcations-public-humiliation
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hide-and-seek/201408/the-psychology-humiliation
If it is harmful to others, it should not be considered " within your right" to impose upon others. Your rights end where another's begins. Just like you cannot go around kicking people, you should not go around ridiculing them.
Guys, I figured it out. You can stop now.
#include
int main{
bool humorIsSubjective=true;
bool humorIsContextual=true;
std::cout<<"that's not funny";
while (humorIsSubjective==true && humorIsContextual==true)
{
std::cout<<"yes, it is"<<std::endl;
std::cout<<"no, it's not"<<std::endl;
}
}
compile, run, walk away.
#include
int main{
bool humorIsSubjective=true;
bool humorIsContextual=true;
std::cout<<"that's not funny";
while (humorIsSubjective==true && humorIsContextual==true)
{
std::cout<<"yes, it is"<<std::endl;
std::cout<<"no, it's not"<<std::endl;
}
}
compile, run, walk away.
Again, you're operating under the notion that everyone thinks alike, reasons alike. They don't. And not even education can help that. And education from what source, from what culture? There's cultures where seeking education is seen as blasphemy and punishable by death. Where young girls are murdered for seeking education.Lil devils x said:
Sure, it can be proven to be harmful to ridicule people. It can also be proven to not be harmful, seeing as not everyone reacts to ridicule in the same way. This is why your comparison to physical injury doesn't hold any water, since if you stab someone the outcome is the same no matter what. If you insult someone the outcome varies wildly. So you even suggesting you should be allowed to sue someone just for an insult is pretty baffling. Because again, what if someone finds a simple critique to be an insult? What if you find this post insulting for not agreeing with you?
You seem to think that if everyone and everything is a valid target in comedy that this means everyone will constantly be insulting and taking the piss out of everyone and everything. Most people commonly know there's a time and place for this type of thing. You didn't see people making 9/11 jokes during the actual attacks, and I'm sure you won't find many people who will make a cancer joke on someone's deathbed.
What is harmful differs from people to people. The fact that gay people exist is seen as harmful by a staggering amount of the world's population, and them expressing themselves seen as impossing it on others. See how this 'You should not ridicule others' doesn't work when applied to the whole world?
"Hypocrisy thy name is...." You, my friend, whatever name you are going with at the moment. I remember our previous conversation. You were being blatantly racist. Yet, you refuse to acknowledge it. You claim that white people's opinion about the justice system are invalid. Unless, those white people agree with you. Those white people are the good ones, because they know where their place should be.Addendum_Forthcoming said:
Attitudes like yours is the reason why I respect openly bigoted people. I don't agree with bigots. At least, they are honest about their prejudices. People like you claim they are tolerant and concerned about equality. Then demonstrate that by being intolerant and pro-discrimination.
I guess what's the worst part of what you and your ilk are doing. You are getting offended about things you think other people should be offended about. When people of that group say they are not offended. You tell them to shut up. Obviously, those groups don't know enough to be offended at what you are offended about on their behalf.
