Poll: Which Space Marine Do you like?
- Thread starter Kranoes
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The Blood Ravens were made up for Dawn of War, although they have the name and colour scheme of the Blood Angels it's highly unlikely they're a descendent chapter - they have none of the Blood Angel genetic traits/defects, they're a codex astartes chapter (the Blood Angels are not) and they have a high proportion of Psykers again which the Blood Angels don't. In fiction they don't know their Primarch as the information has been intentionally hidden, one of the more likely bets is that they're a descendent of the Thousands Sons legion which had a high proportion of Psykers. Since this legion turned traitor and followed Horus if the Blood Ravens do use this geneseed then it makes sense that the traitor origins would be hidden.CJ1145 said:
They can take the armour off - usually after battle it will be damaged but at the least it needs cleaned. The implant which allows them to connect their central nervous system into the armour, the 'Black Carapace' a layer which sits under the skin cannot be easily removed.sharidar said:
John
As I've said before, I'm basing this second-hand on pages of comments from people talking about what defines their heroes, the Space Marines. And the most common attributes I see lauded are, most definitely:Johnmcl7 said:
- crazy single-mindedness
- firing rockets out of your gun
- being eight feet tall
- spitting acid
Look through this thread. Is this an unfair summary?
And, yeah, the stuff the fans like isn't always an accurate representation of a setting as a whole. But, well, it matters. A lot. How 40k fans or D&D fans or Halo fans or Star Trek fans conceptualize the object of their fandom really defines its cultural impact. (I know that sucks: if a bunch of people misunderstand your work I'll come along and shit on their stupid version of it. But, well, it's their version that really represents your work's impact as a cultural entity. Suffice it to say, I'm deeply unhappy with 40k as a cultural entity.)
Still, I don't think I'm wrong about the fundamentals -- particularly the universe where THERE IS ONLY WAR. 40k is stuffed with factions who exist only to perpetually fight every other faction (it's "war" without all the cultural stuff that makes war actually meaningful). I don't want to unfairly single out one "universe" here, so let me say that most other game settings do this, too, and it makes them really boring because there's really only one kind of thing going on in the narrative.
Serious question: other than dispelling my notions about Space Marines, what does the fic have to offer? (I haven't really been wowed by franchise works to date.)Johnmcl7 said:
-- Alex
I liked the WH40k spacemarines as portrayed in DoW: Versatile, expensive, and quite a bit tougher than average troop, but not godly. In groups and properly equipped/supported they can do what the average singular "fluffed" space marine can do, which makes sense to me.
I don't buy this "100 can kill an entire planet" part of the fluff, though I find the emphasis on melee combat and the individual chapters' backstories fascinating
I don't buy this "100 can kill an entire planet" part of the fluff, though I find the emphasis on melee combat and the individual chapters' backstories fascinating
I'm not seeing your point, yes people like you seem to have an inaccurate view of WH40K but the fact you seem vaguely aware of that makes the way you continue to spread it somewhat worse.Alex_P said:
Not really sure what your point is either, if I'm not familiar with a particular universe or setting I don't see that as justification to make up rubbish or post nonsense on a forum about it. It's nothing to do with perception or interpretation, I'm simply referring to the actual universe canon not fan fiction or whatever else has been said about it.
Well I think you are, your understanding of Space Marines and Imperial Guard is pretty much entirely wrong and while 'There is only War' is the subtitle for Warhammer 40K it's not accurate either. The only big wars going on are those against Abaddon when he's off on one of his crusades but on the whole the Imperium has been stable since the time of the heresy. During the Great Crusade the Astartes would fight in massive battle groups with the huge Legions at times fighting together however in current day times even with the Chapters being comparatively tiny (just 1,000 marines) they will rarely fight together as the battles are comparatively small. It's also worth bearing in mind that while games and books focus on the Space Marines in reality they are only a very, very small percentage of the Imperium - very few people will ever see an Astartes warrior in the flesh so while to us their battle focus and constant fighting must mean the entire place is a huge battleground in actual this is a very small area of the universe.
While there's a lot of different factions, many of them are rarely in combat or currently only on a small scale. Even Chaos which is the biggest of them all spends a lot of time fighting itself internally rather than the Imperium.
Which franchise works have you read? The Horus Heresy series has been relatively popular as it gives the reader a glimpse into a timeframe before Chaos was well known and how the Great Crusade functioned. Generally anything written by Dan Abnett is a good bet, if you don't like the Space Marines he has a popular series on the Imperial Guard plus a recent book on the Cult Mechanicus (Titanicus) although it's best read after the Heresy book Mechanicum as much of the technology is introduced there. His Eisenhorn trilogy gives a good taste of what life is actually like in the WH40K universe as it follows a standard human Inquisitor as he hunts down various different enemies of the Imperium - aside from some slight Psyker skills he has nothing fancy which means he can't just smash through everything and he has to travel and fight in more conventional ways.
Probably one of the biggest misconceptions I see in this type of thread (and there's plenty of evidence here) is that any power armoured soldier is just a generic machine pretty much who is only of any significance because of their armour whereas the standard human soldier is more of a character because they're an individual. This is very far from the truth - those in the power armour are normally there because they are the very best of their kind without the power armour and with it they are stronger still.
Each Chapter has its own system for choosing aspirants however they normally involve choosing a select few from a planet who have shown considerable ability over all others. They'll then be put through gruelling trials before finally reaching the implantation stage at which point they may still not survive. The end result is that only a very small handful from an entire planet will be exceptional to become a Space Marine.
Same goes for the Mk II Spartans (which the Master Chief was part of), across the entire known human territories just 150 candidates were chosen based on their genetic profiles. Out of that 75 children who showed the most exceptional ability were kidnapped at just six years old and trained extensively as soldiers - before long without any physical augmentation nor armour they could better standard soldiers. Admittedly in the game the Masterchief is very quiet however that's apparently to give the feeling you are actually the character however as with WH40K there's a reasonable back story to the character and the Halo universe.
You've mentioned that if people's perceptions of any of these is incorrect then it's essentially a failing of that system not making itself very well known however I think it's more the opposite way round given it's the same in just about every case. People don't really care so they'll go with whatever notion seems to fit.
I'd have to go with Halo 3, only becuase i havent played any of those other games. However from the pics, those look awesome.
Depends on the planet although in most cases 100 can't kill an entire planet in the fluff - the Space Marines are a precise instrument rather than a blunt object and hence they may be inserted to take out specific objectives (kill heretics, take out anti-ship weaponry) but I can't think of any instances where Marines have even been tasked with killing an entire planet. Any time they need to do such a task they use the weaponry on their ships and it's not even Space Marines firing them.Delicious said:
Why space marines? Everyone knows physicists are better than all other humans can ever hope to be.
But of the list, I went with Warhammer40k.
But of the list, I went with Warhammer40k.
I have to admit that I like the Zone Raiders in Command & Conquer 3, if only because they're pretty cool-looking and have awesome railguns. The Marines from StarCraft are cool and an obvious mainstay, but they're more or less a bunch of assholes. Master Chief and co. are neat as well, but next to the Space Marines of Warhammer 40,000, there is just no contest, period. Every single one of them is essentially the equivalent of Superman, wearing a high-tech death suit and carrying weapons capable of destroying cities.
I know Space Marines take heavy losses in battle, I know they fight giant monsters with razor claws and plague cannons and psychic blasts who are easily as tough as they are, I know that most die during initiation and all that. I'm not trying to handwave that all away. I'm not trying to claim that almost everything in 40k isn't turned up to 11 (I just think that turning it up to 11 makes it suck). But I also know that they're humongous microcephalics with giant guns and even-more-giant robot fists (and sometimes headtubes). That's "rubbish" that I'm not making up.Johnmcl7 said:
Those battlegrounds take up almost all of the narrative space, however. Take away the stories about Space Marines and Guard soldiers and what's left? Inquisitors fighting Chaos?Johnmcl7 said:
Okay, let me rephrase that question:Johnmcl7 said:
Beyond exploration of setting itself, what does 40k fiction have to offer? What themes does it explore? How does it stand up as social science fiction? What does it contribute to the "space-marine" or "war sci-fi" subgenres? What does it contribute to the genre as a whole?
-- Alex
Okay, i should have said: "source of all MODERN spacemarines"
Maybe Halo didn't copy WH40k, but Starcraft and Gears of War did get their basis of spacemarines from WH40k.
Maybe Halo didn't copy WH40k, but Starcraft and Gears of War did get their basis of spacemarines from WH40k.
1.Marines don't know what heavy means, 2. No marines don't use active camo as i said, they simply have nigh-impenetrable armor unless it is a head shot snipers provide little threat to a fully armed space marine in 40k. 3.If a sniper is picking off squads in an area and they cant fid him they use the simple and effective method of "Nuke from orbit" 4.Marines have thousands of worlds devoted to making new marines losing 5 is like saying oops i dropped A bullet.CountFenring said:
Ok holy hell alex now that was a rant i read only about the first two paragraphs and that thing about communication is PART dealt with in 40k, psykers the are the ones who project messages across the warp so as to communicate with ar away planets and or vessels and it is possible for psykers to read directly into the minds on a planet but the flaw as not to make psykers invincible psychic entities if a large amount of psykers die (say another ship) or a very strong warp power is released they will be damaged and possibly killed by the "screams of the dying psykers or high density warp field emitting by say a dying high daemon. as for the rest of your post i am not reading it cuz its too dam longAlex_P said: