Poll: Who the hell does Super Meat Boy appeal to?

[Pirate1019]

And how exactly does that not mean trial and error?

I'm denying it because it's not true, and if even a single person believes the lie then the world is a slightly stupider place.

If you have the recipe for baking a cake, and you fuck up by throwing in too much sugar, than you suck at baking cake. The whole experience wasn't trial and error. Trial and Error is a form of problem solving equivalent to throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. In SMB you have the formula for success right in front of you. You just need to be awesome enough to do it.

I have played I Want to be the Guy [. . .] they're two different kinds of platformers. IWBTG is filled with ridiculous surprises, while Super Meat Boy does lay out of every obstacle for you.

You're confusing sub-genres for differences in quality of design. IWtbtG is famous for having incredibly sadistic and unfair qualities, among them, so-called "bullshit" level design. "ridiculous surprises" are a kind of fake difficulty. Criteria #3 according to TV tropes. [http://tinyurl.com/5wbdgd]

 

[Internet Kraken]

I'm denying it because it's not true, and if even a single person believes the lie then the world is a slightly stupider place.

If you have the recipe for baking a cake, and you fuck up by throwing in too much sugar, than you suck at baking cake. The whole experience wasn't trial and error. Trial and Error is a form of problem solving equivalent to throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. In SMB you have the formula for success right in front of you. You just need to be awesome enough to do it.

"experimentation or investigation in which various methods or means are tried and faulty ones eliminated in order to find the correct solution or to achieve the desired result or effect."

Seriously, Super Meat Boy is trial and error. The game is not bad because of this. Why do you deny it? I honestly don't get why you have a problem with describing it as trial and error gameplay, because that's what it is. You try something, it doesn't work. You then learn from what you did wrong, and correct your actions based on that. "I see, you don't want to jump at full speed because you hit a gear. I'll try slowing down in mid air. Hey, that worked!". This is how the game typically plays. Why are you denying this? It baffles me.

You're confusing sub-genres for differences in quality of design. IWtbtG is famous for having incredibly sadistic and unfair qualities, among them, so-called "bullshit" level design. "ridiculous surprises" are a kind of fake difficulty. Criteria #3 according to TV tropes. [http://tinyurl.com/5wbdgd]

What exactly is the relevance of this? Yes, I know that IWTBTG is different from Super Meat Boy. I said this in my post and that me comparing the two really isn't fair.

 

[Pirate1019]

I surrender. Your tenacity wins out because I can't be assed running in circles arguing with you about it anymore since you're obviously never going to change your mind no matter what anybody tells you.

I gave a perfectly serviceable explanation and you completely ignored it. I responded to a statement you made and you wouldn't or couldn't connect the dots to our previous posts.

Sorry to busy up this thread with my arguments and then cut out halfway. I hope you have more fun with whatever game you decide to tackle next.

 

[blankedboy]

Super Meat Boy = Hard platformer

I Wanna Be the Guy = Torment and agony

Having played the ladder, I don't see Super Meat Boy as being that bad. Coincidentally, Super Meat Boy GREATLY resembles an old freeware game known as, "Jumper."

http://www.gamemakergames.com/archive/jumper

Oh yeah, there's four Jumper games now. The fifth is coming out sometime this year ^^
Play Jumper Redux, THAT game is hard. Super Meat Boy pales in comparisooooooooooooooon

 

[Chrono180]

I beat the main game of Super Meat Boy, and was having great fun with it until the last few levels at which point it became pure frustration. Judging from the amount of times I died on the last few levels, I will never be doing the dark world.

 

[ENKC]

I love Super Meat Boy and I love it for being unashamedly, unapolagetically hardcore. If you can't deal with that, don't play it.

 

[feather240]

Your description of trial and error mean that almost every game is based on trial and error, so trial and error gameplay isn't a flaw unless you're saying the whole industry has a serious problem, but you're not saying that. I think what you're saying is that trial and error game play doesn't work without adequate checkpoints, but because different people are capable of performing over longer lengths of time without error the adequacy of checkpoints is subjective. This may not be the best way to increase difficulty, but it is fair.

(Then again I haven't played it so my point is probably invalid anyway.)

 

[Lukeje]

I have to say I'm enjoying it so far; I've just got onto World 6 and the challenge is what makes me want to keep on playing. If all the levels were as easy as those in the first world then there would be no sense of progression.

 

[Fredrikorex]

There is only one level I can think of that I hated more than other and that's...

Spoiler

Cotton valley 20 because of the last part.

 

[Caligulove]

It appeals to people who like a challenge, for the kinds of classic games, that were admittedly harder and had more constraints or even the LIVES system. It's fun when you actually get used to it and finally beat that level thats been pissing you off for so long, yet you refuse to be beaten by a bunch of pixels

It's that classic feeling of overcoming something that seemed impossible, then watching the hilarious overlays of all your attempts. Brilliant.

 

[SoulSalmon]

Wait, why was Internet Kraken put on probation? His post wasn't insulting or trolling, he only responded to people with his opinions. Someone must have reported him to be malicious.

That said:
"Somehow I get the feeling I'm gonna be sent into probation for this, even though I'm being far less offensive then the guy i'm quoting... :/"
I called my own probation, although I still think it's wierd because I haven't seen anyone get put on probation for a post that was ACTUALLY inuslting, only ones that hint at being insulting.

I dunno, obviously The Escapist hates debates and arguments so I'll just slip back into watching ZP, EC and Unskippable without making further posts.

My actual reason for probation was the phrase "your misguided butthurtedness" so I'll just leave with a throw at The Escapist for being butthurt 0.o

 

[little.09]

you sound like your just whining to me

 

[bushwhacker2k]

I have NOT played Super Meat Boy, but I feel that I agree with you on some levels that difficulty should not be confused with tediousness and length. If something isn't difficult to do and so you get it 9/10 times but they make you do it 40 times in a row you will likely fail... a LOT.

 

[Amphoteric]

Having just bought the game and dying over 4000 times in 7 hours it is insanely fun. I'm still stuck on raprure though. The hardest game I have ever played in my life.

The level design in my opinion is exellent, not bullshit difficulty at all.

 

[Engarde]

So far I have beaten the light world and half of the dark world, and as you said, the level design can get infuriating. Personally, some of the later levels just felt like 'Hey, throw in a bunch or enemy spewing / rocket spewing portals or guns, that'll make it hard!

It often ended up feeling like trial and error for the most part, because after all that effort for me to get through those traps, I was cut down by a rocket that I couldnt / didnt see coming.

Plus some of the levels are so damn long....

 

[C117]

You do realize that beating the levels through trial and error is sort of the point of a platformer, right?

Yes, of course I do. The thing is though, towards the end beating the levels through trial and error becomes a fucking nightmare because the levels get to long. You just end up having to slog through so many obstacles that the ones the designers tacked on towards the end of each level are the straws that broke the camels back. If I made a level that consisted entirely of incredibly difficult hazards and was incredibly long, would you consider that to be good game design? Then there are times when it feels like the designers just threw in a ton of obstacles when it wasn't necessary.

I guess I came into this game expecting level design that surpassed the quality you see in your typical bullshit rom hack. I like most of the earlier levels when they are of decent length so you can do trial and error without wanting to pull your hair out. It's when the levels started getting really long and bloated with pointless obstacles that I got fed up with the game.

Well, it's the last world. You are SUPPOSED to save the most difficult stuff for the last world (or bonus worlds).

And yes, I can agree that the final level before Dr. Fetus was pretty ludicrous, but it wasn't as bad as, say, every single level in I Wanna Be The Guy. And the knowledge that I was just about to finish the game kept me motivated enough to run through it.

 

[Motakikurushi]

I loved Super Meat Boy and I'm the kind to get frustrated by games very easily so either SMB gave me the patience of a Buddhist or it's a good game. SMB prides on player skill not the unpredictable shit that is in say I wanna be the guy or Mega Man 9, a game I loathe entirely. At the end of the day I beat Super Meat Boy light world and dark world and I kinda' suck at retro-platformer video games. Then again I consider SMB to be the best game of 2010 so maybe I'm just thick or something.

Besides, didn't the escapist write an article on why SMB is good anyway?